Atheist? Agnostic? Humanist?

EllieP

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OK, I've been very hesitant about wading into this conversation, because there are a lot of strong feelings on both sides, mine included.

Here is my take pure and simple: religion is organized to hold spirituality hostage for the good of society. Does that make sense?

The ancient Jews knew that oysters and pork were dangerous to eat at certain times and conditions; so why not ban them completely and keep everyone safe? Proscribed conditions for worship keeps everyone in line through fear of divine retribution. The whole reward part works, too, but not as good as withholding the reward if you don't fall in line.

I admire people of faith. Religious people scare me. There's a big difference. People of faith actually live what they believe. Religious people follow orders, and one of those orders is to make sure that I drink the same Kool-Aid. My Mum has a branch office.

I do know this: I don't know everything because I am human. I am limited by my physical capabilities, and those include our ability to grasp abstract concepts that don't fit in the logical mind.

A logical person trying to argue a point is very little different from a Christian trying to prove something with a Bible. Both are quite limited because they're both asking me to place my full belief in something that is in itself very limited.

The human mind is wonderful, but it's encased in meat and meat has limitations. That same mind that produced the Hubble telescope also wrote The Old Man and the Sea and composed The Brandenburg Concerto and directed the killing of civilians in Syria.

Placing ones entire belief in a human brain is just as dangerous as relying on a book. They're both full of flaws as far as I'm concerned, divine attribution to either notwithstanding.

Anyone who says they have all the answers has a hidden price tag somewhere.
 

Tattooed Goddess

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No I'm not, I'm an individual (just like everyone else) and I don't take kindly to people putting me in little boxes (no matter how well furnished they are)

AS a great phillosopher once wrote, I am what I am and what I am needs no excuses :biggrin1:

I am an individual who subscribes to the detailed ethics in secular humanism. What is wrong with me closely aligning myself to a complex belief that helps people gain clarity on what it is I believe? It saves me from answering the same questions over and over again to have a name for what I believe. There is no difference in claiming you are Free Will Baptist, Southern Baptist, Roman Catholic, or Assembly of God if you are a religion person.

There are many types of Atheism/Agnosticism and I found a category that best suits me. I am not placing others in a box. I am simply looking for those who DO in fact relate to being a Godless Heathen (lol) and talk further with those types who understand and relate to me and what I feel about it.

I keep saying this again and again through out the thread when the "why label yourself?" keeps coming up. No one is putting YOU in a box. NO one is putting me in a box. I put myself in a box labeled something you don't believe personally. Is this a problem?

If you were Assembly of God and not Baptist, would you go around saying "I am not Baptist, or Catholic or....(put any long list of what you aren't here)" or would you just say "I am Assembly of God" and call yourself that for simplicities sake? Well I am a Secular Humanist which conveys to non-believers where I stand on human issues and ethics in the Atheist community.
 
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Tattooed Goddess

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OK, I've been very hesitant about wading into this conversation, because there are a lot of strong feelings on both sides, mine included.

Here is my take pure and simple: religion is organized to hold spirituality hostage for the good of society. Does that make sense?

The ancient Jews knew that oysters and pork were dangerous to eat at certain times and conditions; so why not ban them completely and keep everyone safe? Proscribed conditions for worship keeps everyone in line through fear of divine retribution. The whole reward part works, too, but not as good as withholding the reward if you don't fall in line.

I admire people of faith. Religious people scare me. There's a big difference. People of faith actually live what they believe. Religious people follow orders, and one of those orders is to make sure that I drink the same Kool-Aid. My Mum has a branch office.

I do know this: I don't know everything because I am human. I am limited by my physical capabilities, and those include our ability to grasp abstract concepts that don't fit in the logical mind.

A logical person trying to argue a point is very little different from a Christian trying to prove something with a Bible. Both are quite limited because they're both asking me to place my full belief in something that is in itself very limited.

The human mind is wonderful, but it's encased in meat and meat has limitations. That same mind that produced the Hubble telescope also wrote The Old Man and the Sea and composed The Brandenburg Concerto and directed the killing of civilians in Syria.

Placing ones entire belief in a human brain is just as dangerous as relying on a book. They're both full of flaws as far as I'm concerned, divine attribution to either notwithstanding.

Anyone who says they have all the answers has a hidden price tag somewhere.

Beautifully said. Just beautiful. I would discount an Atheist if he/she claimed to know everything. I just personally don't believe there are ways to prove or disprove god. I just happen to respect more about science's way of finding answers because they are held to a much higher standard than those who are religious.

Too often people who believe in a higher power want to push their beliefs on others as the only pure truth out there. That is just as worth discounting as an atheist claiming the very same things.

I remain friends with many people who believe in a higher power. It doesn't effect me personally. They don't allow what I think to get in the way of our friendship, so why should I?
 

sirpsychosexy

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I'm an atheist. I have been since I was 7 when i stopped believing in everything supernatural. As far as humanist or other codes of ethics I've never really given it much consideration. I've always just thought that if my actions don't harm other people then they can't be bad. That's why it seems wrong to me that I have to hide my identity on this site and associate it with a sense of shame just because other people would think badly of me for having fun with consenting adults.
 

Tattooed Goddess

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I'm an atheist. I have been since I was 7 when i stopped believing in everything supernatural. As far as humanist or other codes of ethics I've never really given it much consideration. I've always just thought that if my actions don't harm other people then they can't be bad. That's why it seems wrong to me that I have to hide my identity on this site and associate it with a sense of shame just because other people would think badly of me for having fun with consenting adults.

Thanks so much for the clear and concise answer. That's exactly what I was looking for when I started this thread. ;)

May I send you a friends request?
 

D_Sal_Manilla

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i dont see god as a form, because only in recent human years and i mean a few thousand years have we "experienced" god.

cave men didn't paint pictures of a greater being. they painted pictures of life. I personally don't think they believed in god. What i'm trying to say is the god is nothing more than a human invention.

now i believe that there are many reasons why we created god. but thats whole different topic.

I am not sure if i believe in god. cause there is a part of me that needs proof. and then there's a part of me that wants to believe. So not sure if i fall under one of those terms.
 

Drifterwood

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I admire people of faith. Religious people scare me. There's a big difference.

A logical person trying to argue a point is very little different from a Christian trying to prove something with a Bible. Both are quite limited because they're both asking me to place my full belief in something that is in itself very limited.

There is a very big difference indeed and the religious power mongers should be feared IMO.

I disagree though regarding the two arguments, if only in methodology. The religious person can only argue from a point of religious dogma that cannot be substantiated rationally. However the rationalist will generally use an empirical process. Yes, the logic of the latter may fall foul of human limitations ultimately, however, I find it a far more honest and genuine attempt to understand reality.

What have the two different approaches each achieved? Well, one still stones women to death and wants gay people holocausted.
 

Drifterwood

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that's interesting what you just said Drift

:smile:

I don't see why the two should be in conflict. However, I do consider that the conflict arises because in the past the religious has sought to control our lives beyond the spiritual. Some people of faith have come to terms with this shift, some religious people have not.

Homosexuality is a very good example. A rational person would conclude that homosexuality is part of human nature, and therefore normal. A religious person will accept someone's opinion from millennia ago that it is not part of their god's plan for humanity. How they know/knew the mind of their god though also causes me a few issues.

Just to add, the religious who wish to state that believing in their religious dogma is the same as "believing" in scientific theory are being wholly disingenuous. We accept that theory will probably change/evolve, whereas dogma can not. The fluidity of theory is exciting and challenging to the human mind, dogma isn't; it's a mental prison cell IMO. Ironically though of course, religions have evolved out of most recognition in the last twelve thousand years.
 
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Mushrhoom

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I'm an atheist. I have been since I was 7 when i stopped believing in everything supernatural.

I'm an atheist with faith! My faith is that things that folks label as "supernatural" is simply natural stuff we don't yet understand.

Look at the historical record: astronomic, meteorological and electromagnetic phenomena, among others, were all once cast in this light. Now we've got a pretty good handle on how these things work.

What about stuff we don't understand: ESP, experiences of deja-vu, and quite possibly reincarnation?

I don't know how, or why, these things happen; but it sure will be fun to figure it out