Australia to ban alcohol and pornography from Aborigines

[ital8]

I've been to Australia before, and loved it. But one thing that concerned me was the disparity between white Australia and the Aborigines. What are your thoughts? An Aussie comment or two would be great.





Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines - Yahoo! News

 

[Pecker]

OMG, talk about your ... black market. :tongue:

 

[rob_just_rob]

I was shocked at this story when I read it. I understand there are alcohol and child abuse problems among the indigenous peoples of Australia, and something obviously needs to be done. But this goes beyond heavy handed - it's about as blatantly discriminatory as you can go, short of herding them all into work camps.

 

[whatireallywant]

I was shocked at this story when I read it. I understand there are alcohol and child abuse problems among the indigenous peoples of Australia, and something obviously needs to be done. But this goes beyond heavy handed - it's about as blatantly discriminatory as you can go, short of herding them all into work camps.

I agree...the best way to deal with the substance abuse problems is to improve conditions in their lives with regards to finding employment and lowering the poverty rate, not by banning alcohol and porn. Besides the fact that banning these things for Aboriginals but not for whites is about as racist as you can get!

 

[B_josiah852]

They will soon learn how to make their own alcohol or the white Aussies will make a fortune off of selling them bootleg whiskey.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

The nanny state knows what's best for all.

Still, alcohol is banned on many Indian reservations in the U.S. But those bans are self-imposed by tribal governments.

 

[whatireallywant]

The nanny state knows what's best for all.

Still, alcohol is banned on many Indian reservations in the U.S. But those bans are self-imposed by tribal governments.

It's different if it's self imposed. I don't have a problem with that. I know that some Aboriginal communities in Australia have self-imposed bans too. And the Festival of Aboriginal Music is alcohol-free. (Yes, I have researched this. One of the things I would love to do is travel to Australia and go to the Festival of Aboriginal Music. I am mostly familiar with the rock bands like Yothu Yindi and Warumpi Band, but I love solo didgeridoo music as well.)

 

[thoswood]

I hope some of our Aussie friends will clarify this, but it is my impression that even during the 1960's aborignals were legal non-persons. Legislation had to be passed to grant them status as human beings.

 

[Blocko]

To clarify this, it isn't all Aboriginals, it's about 60 particular communities in the Northern Territory that have a rampant problem with child sexual abuse (and sexual abuse in general). This isn't particular to Aboriginals either, it is all people in that community. That means whites, including miners, will not be allowed to have porn or alcohol in these areas.

Many of these communities are already "dry" due to the local bi-laws, but because neighbouring communities are not, it creates a problem where people just smuggle alcohol in form out of town.

In short; Pornography and alcohol is accessible to all people of Australia outside of these areas and limited to all of them within.

I tend to think the government's action is heavy handed and wrong minded, but in the end, someone had to do something. If you've ever been to one of these communities (and I have), you'll know they can be incredibly dangerous places.

If you do read the full story, or have seen the full story as it unfolded on Lateline, some of the incidents involved are nothing short of atrocities, with children being rented out for alcohol and petrol. If it were a war zone, these would be heinous war crimes.

Lateline - ABC for more information.

 

[dongalong]

The thing about banning things is that it becomes more exciting to break those banning laws.
Hard core porn was banned in th UK until recently that didn't stop German and Dutch imports from reaching teenagers!

You'd imagine that most Dutch people would be constantly stoned since they decriminalised soft drugs, but most that I have met, see weed smokers either as losers or tourists, it has lost the excitement since it has become readily available.

Bannings just add incentive and drive those things underground, other methods would be more effective in my opinion.

 

[B_big dirigible]

It's different if it's self imposed. I don't have a problem with that.

That doesn't follow at all. If an act is racist if perpetrated by one political entity, the same act is still racist if perpetrated by some other political entity.

 

[whatireallywant]

That doesn't follow at all. If an act is racist if perpetrated by one political entity, the same act is still racist if perpetrated by some other political entity.

It's different because it's something that in case the tribal governments decided for their areas themselves, rather than something imposed by an outside entity and only pertained to them. I'll use the Native American tribal councils as an example. If they decide to ban alcohol on their reservation, that's not racist, but if the US government decided to enact prohibition but only on the reservations, that would be racist.

 

[whatireallywant]

To clarify this, it isn't all Aboriginals, it's about 60 particular communities in the Northern Territory that have a rampant problem with child sexual abuse (and sexual abuse in general). This isn't particular to Aboriginals either, it is all people in that community. That means whites, including miners, will not be allowed to have porn or alcohol in these areas.

Many of these communities are already "dry" due to the local bi-laws, but because neighbouring communities are not, it creates a problem where people just smuggle alcohol in form out of town.

In short; Pornography and alcohol is accessible to all people of Australia outside of these areas and limited to all of them within.

I tend to think the government's action is heavy handed and wrong minded, but in the end, someone had to do something. If you've ever been to one of these communities (and I have), you'll know they can be incredibly dangerous places.

If you do read the full story, or have seen the full story as it unfolded on Lateline, some of the incidents involved are nothing short of atrocities, with children being rented out for alcohol and petrol. If it were a war zone, these would be heinous war crimes.

Lateline - ABC for more information.

I was just going by the original article. If it pertains to everyone in that community, that's different.

Not sure banning works though. It didn't work during Prohibition in the US.

 

[B_big dirigible]

It's different because it's something that in case the tribal governments decided for their areas themselves, rather than something imposed by an outside entity and only pertained to them. I'll use the Native American tribal councils as an example. If they decide to ban alcohol on their reservation, that's not racist, but if the US government decided to enact prohibition but only on the reservations, that would be racist.

How is that racist? If it applies to everyone on a reservation with no mention of race, where is the racism?

Reservations are a tricky problem, as residency is predicated on race in the first place. Or strictly, tribal descent, but the racial component is obvious. But if it applied to everyone within the limits of the reservation, it would apply to me when I drove through, even though I wouldn't qualify for prohibition on racial grounds. Similarly, it wouldn't apply to a resident when he ventured off the reservation, even though his race wouldn't have changed. The prohibition is based on geography, not race.

If however the regulation is that alcohol is prohibited to Indians, it hardly makes a difference whether the prohibition originated in Washington or with other Indians. The restriction is purely racial, either way.

The only way out of it is to claim that Indians are immune to the charge of racism. Which is not very sensible.

 

[whatireallywant]

How is that racist? If it applies to everyone on a reservation with no mention of race, where is the racism?

Reservations are a tricky problem, as residency is predicated on race in the first place. Or strictly, tribal descent, but the racial component is obvious. But if it applied to everyone within the limits of the reservation, it would apply to me when I drove through, even though I wouldn't qualify for prohibition on racial grounds. Similarly, it wouldn't apply to a resident when he ventured off the reservation, even though his race wouldn't have changed. The prohibition is based on geography, not race.

If however the regulation is that alcohol is prohibited to Indians, it hardly makes a difference whether the prohibition originated in Washington or with other Indians. The restriction is purely racial, either way.

The only way out of it is to claim that Indians are immune to the charge of racism. Which is not very sensible.

I'm not good at explaining what I was trying to say. I think you explained it better than I could have! I was talking about if it was a law passed by the tribal council regarding reservation grounds it is not racist. Of course it would apply to everyone who enters reservation grounds. And if someone who lived there left the grounds, that law would no longer apply to them. My verbal "persuasion" skills are dismal, which is one of the reasons why I hate to argue. But I think in this case we actually do agree - I just worded my opinion unclearly.

 

[faceking]

They will soon learn how to make their own alcohol or the white Aussies will make a fortune off of selling them bootleg whiskey.

Wow sounds very familiar ala the Southwest US, ... the worst thing was the guilt in providing all the protections and autocracy. Should of just integrated within... when has it ever worked out?

 

[Blocko]

Yes, it seems like a very effective way to create a black market economy.

For a long time the problem has been that the Howard government seems unwilling to help truly build economies in these townships. Welfare isn't the solution, but neither is punitive police state tactics. Incentives to work, build business, civics and community just aren't given enough thought.

The thing about banning things is that it becomes more exciting to break those banning laws.
Hard core porn was banned in th UK until recently that didn't stop German and Dutch imports from reaching teenagers!

You'd imagine that most Dutch people would be constantly stoned since they decriminalised soft drugs, but most that I have met, see weed smokers either as losers or tourists, it has lost the excitement since it has become readily available.

Bannings just add incentive and drive those things underground, other methods would be more effective in my opinion.

 

[Shelby]

Where are Jesse and Al ?!!

 

[B_Think_Kink]

We have the same issue up where I live, banning alcohol means you have to ban mouthwash, peanut butter, aerosol sprays of any kind, whip cream in a can, any kind of cleaning agents, yeast and on and on.... It is really sad that they have to go so far as to ban it from a particular group of people. Even if it is to better them, I'm not sure it is correct to do that.

 

[whatireallywant]

We have the same issue up where I live, banning alcohol means you have to ban mouthwash, peanut butter, aerosol sprays of any kind, whip cream in a can, any kind of cleaning agents, yeast and on and on.... It is really sad that they have to go so far as to ban it from a particular group of people. Even if it is to better them, I'm not sure it is correct to do that.

My one LTR would like to live in a place like that, as he is allergic to EVERYTHING you mentioned above (including the scents of the above items). But he would be against the ban because he doesn't like overly-restricting governments.