Auto bailout just died in the Senate

[B_starinvestor]

More Christmas cheer for everyone. Jezuz. Could they have waited 24 hours after Bank of America announced 30,000 layoffs in the next 3 years??

I think Santa Claus is probably doing meth. He has 4 toys to deliver to 3 billion kids.

P.S. It died because of a dispute over auto worker wages.

P.S.S. Asian markets are tumbling.

 

[2322]

Saw a doctor with an office on Park Avenue last week. If anybody's making money, he is. Know what he said? "Health care's collapsing. I give it five years, I'm retiring in three. We're not making any money. Friend of mine's an obstetrician and his malpractice just rose 27%. He's out."

So I said, "Apres vous le deluge?"

He replied, "In more ways than one."

I felt like Clemenza advising Michael. "These gotta happen..." We won't clear the bad blood until it does. The sooner we cut out the gangrene the sooner we can rehab. Farewell Detroit!

 

[nudeyorker]

I read the OP's post while listening to Frank Sinatra sing "That's Life"

 

[HyperHulk]

Yes, I'm torn. I think the bailout is needed because I would hate to see these companies go under and all those people be put out of work. However, I think the wage decreases are reasonable considering everything and if the union won't budge and want to play hardball, well I guess they have effectively screwed the people they are saying they want to protect. I honestly don't understand the unions in these circumstances.

 

[Notaguru2]

HAPPY DANCE! Will it hold?

 

[D_Chocho_Lippz]

What this is a perfect plan unfolding in front of us for the benefit of a few.

Welcome to our new oligarchy that is sponsored by our very own tax dollars.

 

[D_Chocho_Lippz]

Yes, I'm torn. I think the bailout is needed because I would hate to see these companies go under and all those people be put out of work. However, I think the wage decreases are reasonable considering everything and if the union won't budge and want to play hardball, well I guess they have effectively screwed the people they are saying they want to protect. I honestly don't understand the unions in these circumstances.

Exactly why I cannot stand unions.

Flame away... I still hate em...

 

[B_VinylBoy]

I can see why some Unions don't want to budge with their pay decreases. Especially when some CEOs are using bailout money so they can retain their lavish lifestyles while the regular guy still struggles.

Not saying that it's right or wrong. Just putting up a valid argument for people who's body composition is 60% water and 20% ramen noodle flavor packets.

 

[slurper_la]

I always love reading the nonsensical rantings of the ill-informed.

In this matter the UAW has bent over backwards with givebacks and concessions yet the Republicans in the Senate won't support this bridge loan until they can totally obliterate the union.

It wasn't the UAW that designed bad cars all these years. It wasn't the UAW that fought off COLA. It wasn't the UAW that fought higher mileage standards.

It's not UAW workers making millions of dollars in salaries, stock trades and bonuses or flying around in private jets.

And before any of you peanut brain neocons go quoting false reports about $70 per hour pay rates... the average salary of UAW workers is $23 or $53,000 per year.

Isn't it a bit curious not a single republican senator voiced concerns over the salaries of Wall St traders and Bank Execs when passing the $700 billion stimulus package 5 weeks ago? Thank God the Democrats demanded oversight protection on those dollars before approving - remember Bush and Paulson wanted "no oversight, no questions asked"

But pick on poor UAW workers? sure why not?

Isn't it also curious the 4 republican senators most vocal on this matter represent 3 states with car factories owned by:

Toyota, Merceds Benz, Honda, BMW and Hundai?

And each received huge state sponsored earmarks and tax rebates to build their factories.

So because the republican mantra is to kill unions, 3 million people all over the country who are connected to the car business will lose jobs if the big three collapse. Not just UAW workers but parts manufacturer workers, dealerships, salesmen, leasing companies, steel and plastics mills.... it's huge.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

You DO know they're gonna start calling you bad names for bringing up a logical and valid argument, slurper_la?

 

[slurper_la]

Media Matters - Media still wedded to $70+ per hour autoworker falsehood despite GM's recent statements to the contrary

Save Auto Jobs: Debunking the $70-per-hour myth

Textile workers strike (1934 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

 

[Nrets]

So you guys think there's gonna be a big plunge tomorrow?

 

[Drifterwood]

IAnd before any of you peanut brain neocons go quoting false reports about $70 per hour pay rates... the average salary of UAW workers is $23 or $53,000 per year.

I hope I am not considered a peanut brain neocon. :biggrin1:

The issue is never as simple as pay. You have to relate this to productivity and any reduction in productivity because of working practices. I don't know about the US, but in the bad old days of the UK, our car workers were getting nearly as much as their German competitors and producing half as many cars of half the quality.

This may or may not be the case in the US, but certainly it seems that the quality of the product is lacking relative to the competition. This is a global market. Why should you get $53,000 a year, it is not a god given right. Whilst I don't sit easily with the money the city boys have made, it was made in a global market. They aren't making it now.

Clearly there is need for major restructuring in your auto industry at a time when there is over capacity, which reflects badly on the management, because they should have done this in the good times. I'm afraid that I see no alterative to evolution in the business world. Dinosaurs need to evolve or die. The downside would be that you would lose the whole tree when actually all you need to do is trim the dead wood.

 

[B_starinvestor]

The downside would be that you would lose the whole tree when actually all you need to do is trim the dead wood.

Trim the....Drifterwood? :biggrin1: Haha, couldn't let that one go. Good point, though.

The $23/hr doesn't even scratch the surface. Healthcare costs, legacy costs, vacation, sickleave, overtime, contributions to VEBA, etc., etc.,

Way too rich....impossible to compete vs. Honda, Toyota, Hyundai and the like.

Also, yes. Market will tumble today.

 

[devron]

I hope I am not considered a peanut brain neocon. :biggrin1:

Well, you disagreed. That's all you have to do these days to earn that label.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Media Matters - Media still wedded to $70+ per hour autoworker falsehood despite GM's recent statements to the contrary

Save Auto Jobs: Debunking the $70-per-hour myth

Textile workers strike (1934 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Oops, our bad. The cost for GM was only $73 per hour in 2006, not $78 per hour. On behalf of the U.S., we are sorry about that mixup.

Surprising, at only $73/hr., that they lost $15 billion, particularly considering that $73/hr is like child-labor rates.

 

[B_4inches]

I think the world is going to toppel into itself. I think it almost has to. Everywhere you turn world leaders are betraying the public good in ever more extreme fashions for a world as modern as ours.

The real sin of it all is that the problem isnt that there are more bad guys then good guys. Its that there are more people sitting idly by watching evil happen than all the good guys and bad guys combined.

 

[catman]

Well here is what galls me...

we write a basically blank check, NO RESTRICTIONS or failsafes, over seeing etc to an already wildly unchecked 'industry' (ie banking) of "700 billion" (the quotes as the number seems to vasilate, even they aren't sure of where its "going")...

yet they can't pass a 14 billion (never thought 14 billion would sound 'tiny' but...) to basically stave off a possible implosion of frighteningly bad proportions...

I agree with the bad news issue... is there only so much the american psyche can handle? (here in Ga the local gov't have even passed a 'no evictions til after christmas' rule....some tiny bit of dignity...

every morning I say a prayer of 'thanks' that I, and my sons, have jobs, this months rent/mortgage and food on our table(s).

 

[tripod]

More Christmas cheer for everyone. Jezuz. Could they have waited 24 hours after Bank of America announced 30,000 layoffs in the next 3 years??

I think Santa Claus is probably doing meth. He has 4 toys to deliver to 3 billion kids.

P.S. It died because of a dispute over auto worker wages.

P.S.S. Asian markets are tumbling.

Well, we can fucking blame th Republicans for driving in the stake that killed the auto companies. They just fucking love bailing out the financial sector with no wage demands on white collar workers, but when it comes to blue collar workers... FUCK EM right?

Republicans just love bankers but despise the common man.

This deal will seal the Dems holding their gain in congress in the 2010 elections.

They will NEVER fucking live this down.

700+ billion with no strings attached for the financial sector which makes NOTHING and a few billion dollars for the auto makers who make fucking CARS that we can drive. The douchebag Republicans just had to beat down the middle class employees out of making a decent wage.

Republicans will go down as the killers of General Motors.

Oops, our bad. The cost for GM was only $73 per hour in 2006, not $78 per hour. On behalf of the U.S., we are sorry about that mixup.

Surprising, at only $73/hr., that they lost $15 billion, particularly considering that $73/hr is like child-labor rates.

No fuckng GM worker makes those wages, stop pulling those figures out of your ass and inflating them with voodoo mathmatics in order to shock us all with a big number. They don't make 70 dollars an hour and you fucking KNOW it. Do you even know anyone who works in the auto industry?

 

[Skull Mason]

I think the world is going to toppel into itself. I think it almost has to. Everywhere you turn world leaders are betraying the public good in ever more extreme fashions for a world as modern as ours.

The real sin of it all is that the problem isnt that there are more bad guys then good guys. Its that there are more people sitting idly by watching evil happen than all the good guys and bad guys combined.

2012 son be prepared!!! Disclosure is at hand...