Auto Workers are so out of touch of reality!

[arrivaderciroma]

In the 1970s you couldn't roll down the rear windows in many American cars. The back seats were for dogs or packages. In some models, changing the oil was a major operation that you couldn't do in your backyard (Chevy). You had to make an appointment with a garage.

The auto industry has been run by accountants with no life experience for over 40 years. These guys came to the industry straight out of business school and hadn't lived worldly lives. The real "car" guys have had no creative outlet and no ear in the executive suites. Profit was job "one". Cheap imitation was job "two" Do you remember how hard U.S. cars used to try to look like Mercedes, and then Toyotas?

U.S. cars were "cheaper" (and still are, I think) in every aspect of production except in marketing and advertising.

My bottom line opinion is that the current executives need to be dismissed and engineers, designers and automotive innovators should ascend to executive positions in balanced cooperation with accountants.

 

[B_starinvestor]

What a bunch of shit.

Don't believe the ANIT- labor union tripe you read and hear. ITs A CLASS issue.

In the US today, we have time and a half for overtime, a five day work week, paid vacation and health benefits, unemployment and disability pay BECAUSE and ONLY because of organized labor.


No one is asking how hard the arbitrage fucks who CREATED this economic meltdown work for their 6 and 7 figure salaries.

The fact is that without labor unions, corporations would STILL be paying shit wages and ZERO benefits to the people who labor their whole lives WITHOUT benefit of significant advancement.

The inflated incomes attributed to UAW workers are MANIPULATED figures... figures that include such things the value of their pension investments ASSUMING a 10% growth for 20 years...
And absolutely neglect the fact that MOST of their pension moneys have been invested in the stock market and are effectively zeroed right now.


The "Anti worker" prejudice that seems to infect even the working people of this nation is part of the whole bullshit mythology pressed by conservatives for the past 20 years.


The entire IDEA of the middle class and the American Dream of home ownership is the DIRECT result of organized labor striking for better pay and better working conditions.

Without collective bargaining, NO CORPORATION would give their worker's dick.

Haven't you folks been paying attention to what just happened?

The RICH have SCREWED the entire country in their profligate avarice.
No one asked AIG about salaries and beneifts THEY offer the shitheads who do NOTHING but swap imaginary paper back anf forth...


Auto workers MAKE something.
The time has come that we treat the traders and speculators as the gamblers, charlatans, con artists and leeches that they really are...
And start to VALUE the people who actually PRODUCE goods that have intrinsic worth.

The CAUSE of the economic meltdown is that we have allowed the luftgeschaeft white collar leeches to dominate our economy and have offshored all REAL productivity.
Contrary to what bankers will tell you, loans are NOT products... they are LIENS

I am sick and tired of this mistreatment of the middle class.

When the Board members who make the determinations about what cars will and won't be made are getting paid MILLIONS....
Hell... getting paid MILLIONS to QUIT when they fuck up...
given the excesses of the monied elite, it is criminal to castigate factory workers for wanting a better life than a double wide trailer.

IF I were pres... I would make every fucking exec at AIG, Lehman, and every other bailoutee ADOPT 10 unemployeed factory workers and have to pay their entire families' costs of living until they could find a decent job.

Phil, I'm with you on mismanagement and unjust executive pay, but if you are dismissing the labor costs you are sniffing some bad shit. You are suggesting here that the workers were fairly paid, yet why is the labor cost of the Big 3 50% higher than that of Toyota?

I worked a summer job in college in a union, and honestly, it was a joke. Guys would have a temper tantrum and walk off the job, and they couldn't be fired. Period. 98% of all laborers at that factory lived by the mantra that the company was trying to fuck them, and other than the old-timers, barely anyone had pride in their workmanship.

They were overpaid. I'm not dismissing hardworking people or the middle class, but unions create an environment in which equality rewards the lazy and punishes the ambitious. In the case of the UAW, it is impossible to compete due to the labor costs. There are UAW employees who passed away in the early 80's, and their spouses are still collecting pension income.

How in Sam Hell can they compete under those circumstances??

 

[pym]

I have always driven automobiles made by the big 3. And always will....That to me, is patriotism. IN ACTION. Why Foreign auto-makers were allowed to flood our domestic market in the first place is the great shame of our time. People in this thread are speaking of Korean cars taking over Japanese car quality, to be usurped by Chinese cars.....FUCK-THAT!!!! I will fight with my last breath and ANY ability i have to prevent that abomination and total destruction of what small amount of our domestic manufacturing capability is left. Nearly every purchase made by people these days is from an overseas plant. People talk of NON-competitiveness with foreign manufacturing price points. How many of you are willing to adopt the same lifestyle of those foreign wage earners? Thank-god for OBAMA....at least he has made some murmoring of domestic market protections. And i will, and have supported that. When the last "big-3" plant shuts down for good.....So will the Plants the ASIAN's have built here under the guise of "MADE IN AMERICA". They will just make them exclusively in there own countries once they have sucessfully aniahalated our industry. The BIG 3 have seen us through 2 world wars and 6 generations of AMERICAN workers. If you do not support them.....you do NOT support America. Argue this point all you want.....but if you do, please include your notions of PATRIOTISM. Or is that just a quaint antiquated notion?

 

[TurkeyWithaSunburn]

It WAS out of hand. We had Janitors making $130K a year. But it was the UAW making it happen, and the big 3 being strongarmed into a corner.

I'll be a Janitor for $130,000 a year :biggrin1: That would put me in the top tax bracket! Oh how lucky some people manage to get

 

[B_starinvestor]

I have always driven automobiles made by the big 3. And always will....That to me, is patriotism. IN ACTION. Why Foreign auto-makers were allowed to flood our domestic market in the first place is the great shame of our time. People in this thread are speaking of Korean cars taking over Japanese car quality, to be usurped by Chinese cars.....FUCK-THAT!!!! I will fight with my last breath and ANY ability i have to prevent that abomination and total destruction of what small amount of our domestic manufacturing capability is left. Nearly every purchase made by people these days is from an overseas plant. People talk of NON-competitiveness with foreign manufacturing price points. How many of you are willing to adopt the same lifestyle of those foreign wage earners? Thank-god for OBAMA....at least he has made some murmoring of domestic market protections. And i will, and have supported that. When the last "big-3" plant shuts down for good.....So will the Plants the ASIAN's have built here under the guise of "MADE IN AMERICA". They will just make them exclusively in there own countries once they have sucessfully aniahalated our industry. The BIG 3 have seen us through 2 world wars and 6 generations of AMERICAN workers. If you do not support them.....you do NOT support America. Argue this point all you want.....but if you do, please include your notions of PATRIOTISM. Or is that just a quaint antiquated notion?

I've always driven American vehicles, and probably always will. That said, its difficult to argue with low income families that can purchase a Toyota or Honda with 100,000 mile warranties, better gas mileage, better financing terms, and less expensive on the lot.

SUV's aren't selling anymore. I think the US SUV's are better than the imports; but the fuel economy cars, and the Camry's and Avalon's crush their American peers - and that's what is selling.

When the Ford F150's were dominating the marketplace, Ford was making up to $15K in profits per vehicle. Problem is, these aren't selling anymore.

If you look at the average labor cost per UAW ee, it is costing Ford around $600 every day that one employee shows up for work. They barely make that on the sale of a Ford Focus. And the Ford Focus is the only type of vehicle that is selling right now.

The math just doesn't work.

 

[devron]

I have always driven automobiles made by the big 3. And always will....That to me, is patriotism. IN ACTION. Why Foreign auto-makers were allowed to flood our domestic market in the first place is the great shame of our time. People in this thread are speaking of Korean cars taking over Japanese car quality, to be usurped by Chinese cars.....FUCK-THAT!!!! I will fight with my last breath and ANY ability i have to prevent that abomination and total destruction of what small amount of our domestic manufacturing capability is left. Nearly every purchase made by people these days is from an overseas plant. People talk of NON-competitiveness with foreign manufacturing price points. How many of you are willing to adopt the same lifestyle of those foreign wage earners? Thank-god for OBAMA....at least he has made some murmoring of domestic market protections. And i will, and have supported that. When the last "big-3" plant shuts down for good.....So will the Plants the ASIAN's have built here under the guise of "MADE IN AMERICA". They will just make them exclusively in there own countries once they have sucessfully aniahalated our industry. The BIG 3 have seen us through 2 world wars and 6 generations of AMERICAN workers. If you do not support them.....you do NOT support America. Argue this point all you want.....but if you do, please include your notions of PATRIOTISM. Or is that just a quaint antiquated notion?

I don't really agree that people should only buy big 3 cars out of patriotism, not if the quality is shit. That's anti-capitalist.

However you hint at something that I DO think is a factor, not the sole factor and maybe not even a major factor, but a factor nonetheless. It's just not cool to own a US car anymore. The old nationalistic mantra of "Made In America" doesn't mean jack to people anymore, they want what is new, what's hip, what no one else has. Top Gear once did a piece about something like it with a Ford and a BMW. Hammand said the cars were fairly comparable but people go for the BMW 'cause it's a BMW and not a Ford--everyone owns a Ford.

 

[pym]

And How the FUCK is "COOL" going to save our economy?

 

[devron]

And How the FUCK is "COOL" going to save our economy?

People are pampered. Everyone talks about "OMG, the economy is going down, the country is done!" but no one really believes it. It's not really real. It's like video game violence.

 

[pym]

People are pampered. Everyone talks about "OMG, the economy is going down, the country is done!" but no one really believes it. It's not really real. It's like video game violence.

...... more than 1/2 million people lost there jobs just in November.....I won't even bother to qoute the figures for the last 8 years. I'd hate to interupt your video game. Are you related to Marie Antoinette?

 

[devron]

...... more than 1/2 million people lost there jobs just in November.....I won't even bother to qoute the figures for the last 8 years. I'd hate to interupt your video game. Are you related to Marie Antoinette?

What are you on about? You asked a question, I gave a small hypothesis that might answer it a little.

 

[223790]

I have always driven automobiles made by the big 3. And always will....That to me, is patriotism. IN ACTION. Why Foreign auto-makers were allowed to flood our domestic market in the first place is the great shame of our time. People in this thread are speaking of Korean cars taking over Japanese car quality, to be usurped by Chinese cars.....FUCK-THAT!!!! I will fight with my last breath and ANY ability i have to prevent that abomination and total destruction of what small amount of our domestic manufacturing capability is left. Nearly every purchase made by people these days is from an overseas plant. People talk of NON-competitiveness with foreign manufacturing price points. How many of you are willing to adopt the same lifestyle of those foreign wage earners? Thank-god for OBAMA....at least he has made some murmoring of domestic market protections. And i will, and have supported that. When the last "big-3" plant shuts down for good.....So will the Plants the ASIAN's have built here under the guise of "MADE IN AMERICA". They will just make them exclusively in there own countries once they have sucessfully aniahalated our industry. The BIG 3 have seen us through 2 world wars and 6 generations of AMERICAN workers. If you do not support them.....you do NOT support America. Argue this point all you want.....but if you do, please include your notions of PATRIOTISM. Or is that just a quaint antiquated notion?

Yeah, jump up and down and rant and swear like a lunatic. That will make it all better and make the big bad Japanese, Koreans and Chinese go bye bye - baby want his bottle now? BTW - blame your own leaders for globalization. The U.S. was the driving force behind it when it benefited your economy. Now that other countries have got their acts together and the shoe is on the other foot, it's suddenly an abomination.

On another point - why the FUCK (in your language) should I spend my hard earned dollars to prop up lazy, spoiled and overpaid workers who produce shit quality? Produce a decent quality car - better yet produce a car people actually want and you get to keep your job. Pretty damn simple huh? My guess is that you are/were a unionized worker and I might as well be speaking in Swahili to you.

Your post is completely ignorant and moronic.

 

[223790]

What are you on about? You asked a question, I gave a small hypothesis that might answer it a little.

He's a childish, ignorant moron. Add him to your ignore list like I just did! :smile:

 

[B_Austin Blue]

Here's why GM doesn't deserve any money at all. They showed off three tiny sub b-class cars last year in NYC and all were designed by GMDAT (GM Daewoo Automotive Technology Korea). Now before any Americans bitch about GMDAT, the fact is that all b-class (subcompact) cars from GM will be designed by GMDAT from now onwards.

GM recently said they have no intention on bringing the b-class micromini cars to the USA even though the smart car has been a huge seller, Toyota is bringing the micromini IQ to USA, and FORD is bringing the Fiesta and Ka to USA soon.

Why the fuck show us three amazingly cute and economical b-class cars then say you have no intention on bringing them to us to buy? How does that make sense? GM says the cars are not ready for strict USA crash and pollution standards?! but yet they meet all the requirements of the EU?!

Meanwhile they give me the AVEO which is a cheap car and yeah I own one. But it's disposable and built with over 15 year old technology. It uses as much gas as a much larger Honda Accord and is the size of a Yaris.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

Only the civil service jobs are more of getting the "Golden Goose" handed to you for free!

Nice rhetoric, doofus. Oversimplify much?

I was wondering how long it would be until the tired old blame-the-government-employees rhetoric would get dragged out.

I've worked for my civil service salary for 25 years. Hardly a freebie.