Baby Killed in Supermarket

findfirefox

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I found this a bit disturbing that someone could actually behead their own child because they got so angry at their brother in law... It makes me wonder if the mindset was "if I can't have it no one can" and if he really thought that was the way to go about it.

From ABC News

ABC News said:
Saudi Arabians recoiled this week at the news that a man allegedly decapitated a 15-month-old baby before his mother's eyes inside a crowded Riyadh supermarket.

"It was shocking for everyone. No one can believe it happened & It was very depressing," said Samar Fatany, a journalist and women's rights activist in Riyadh.

On Sunday morning a 25-year-old Syrian man beheaded his nephew at Al-Marhaba supermarket, Arab News reported. The man reportedly killed the child after an argument with his sister and brother-in-law.

"It happened so quickly. Before people could intervene, the man had cut more than half way through the child's neck," said Abu Muhammad, a grandfather in his mid-60s, told Arab News.

"He was doing it to get back at his brother-in-law who was always threatening to take the child away from his sister," said Fatany, a contributor to the Arab News.

Some onlookers reportedly fainted at the sight of the body. The accused man was taken into custody and is expected to face the death penalty.
"There were plenty of witnesses, the facts of the case are clear, the evidence is abundant," said Christoph Wilcke, of Human Right's Watch, and an expert on Saudi Arabian law.

Wilcke adds, however, that under Saudi law, even if a judge ruled for the death penalty the victim's family could choose to pardon the killer -- perhaps more of a possibility in this case because the alleged killer and victim are related.

If it turns out the the man snapped as the result of mental illness he could also be eligible for a pardon, though Wilcke says that is uncommon.

"I've never heard the insanity defense work in this Saudi Arabia. The concept of mental capacity exists, I just can't think of a real case where it applied," Wilcke said.

This is the latest in a handful of criminal justice cases in Saudi Arabia that have grabbed Western attention in the last year.

In December 2008 a Saudi Arabian rape victim was charged with jail time and 200 lashes after being found in a car with a man to whom she was not related - a verdict that prompted international outrage from Human Rights Watch and other foreign observers, including the White House and U.S. presidential contenders Sen. Hilary Clinton and Sen. Barack Obama. The woman, known anonymously in the Saudi press as "Qatif Girl" was eventually released from jail and later pardoned by Saudi King Abdullah.
Fawza Falih, a Saudi woman, is currently awaiting execution after being found guilty of witchcraft in 2005. Dozens of Saudi men were arrested last month for allegedly flirting with women in front of a shopping mall in Mecca. In January, a woman was arrested after having a Starbucks coffee with a male business colleague.

As the decapitation case moves forward, Saudi Arabians are left recovering from the shock.

"For a whole two days everybody was depressed and too shocked for words. It is not something you hear of every day here. It is not something accepted or part of the culture," said Fatany.

I find it a bit strange that someone actually decided it was necessary to clarify that what happened was not normal in the culture, that may be a sign of what many people "over there" think western culture thinks of them.

Discus.
 

Mem

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Hey man, I was a baby once. I am offened.
 

findfirefox

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Stir the shit findfirefox. How long do you think this post will last?

Shhh, you're going to he me in trouble. In reality I reposted this because its no different then all the other "stuff" (another word might fit better there) in this forum, and this should be treated no different.

I find the most interesting part of the article that someone as taken the time to say that their culture does not condone baby beheading.
 

Mem

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Honestly I was hoping for discussion on this. It was such a barbaric act. It did not seem like mental illness, it seemed like a fit of anger. When a mother drowns her children in the bathtub, that is mental illness to me. When she lets them roll into a lake inside a car, that is murder.
 

findfirefox

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Honestly I was hoping for discussion on this. It was such a barbaric act. It did not seem like mental illness, it seemed like a fit of anger. When a mother drowns her children in the bathtub, that is mental illness to me. When she lets them roll into a lake inside a car, that is murder.

I have always considered that a "barbaric" act requires less cognitive ability or control then something "planned" or "civil". It would seem that things like drowning children or being unable to control your anger/hatred would be easier then thinking things through and remaining calm.

The id is there first, it wants and demands, what happens when the ego loses control or does not develop? It's much easier to satisfy then the superego (that is if your superego developed).
 

dreamer20

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I found this a bit disturbing that someone could actually behead their own child because they got so angry at their brother in law... It makes me wonder if the mindset was "if I can't have it no one can" and if he really thought that was the way to go about it.


It wasn't his child though. And he was mentally unstable.
 

findfirefox

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It wasn't his child though. And he was mentally unstable.

Whoops, thank you for pointing that out.

I don't see where it says he was mentally unstable though, I see where it says they may argue that but I don't see a clear message saying that he was previously declared unstable.
 

findfirefox

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Which is more barbaric - murder as an act of madness - or premeditated and sanctioned and performed by the State in the cold light of dawn?

Murder out of "madness" is for instant gratification.

Depending on the state murder in the "cold light of dawn" most likely has a rational and was for more then instant gratification.
 

dreamer20

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It was such a barbaric act. It did not seem like mental illness, it seemed like a fit of anger. When a mother drowns her children in the bathtub, that is mental illness to me. When she lets them roll into a lake inside a car, that is murder.

That also could be determined as case of mental illness in the latter person's trial.


Sorry fff. The article doesn't confirm that the man was mentally ill.
 

Mem

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"Wilcke adds, however, that under Saudi law, even if a judge ruled for the death penalty the victim's family could choose to pardon the killer -- perhaps more of a possibility in this case because the alleged killer and victim are related. "

I thought that this was bizarre. If his family feels that he was pushed into doing this, he could be set free.
 

Mem

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Which is more barbaric - murder as an act of madness - or premeditated and sanctioned and performed by the State in the cold light of dawn?

To behead your 15 month old nephew in a supermarket is much more barbaric, than putting to death a man who is in prison for raping and killing a child.
 

findfirefox

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"Wilcke adds, however, that under Saudi law, even if a judge ruled for the death penalty the victim's family could choose to pardon the killer -- perhaps more of a possibility in this case because the alleged killer and victim are related. "

I thought that this was bizarre. If his family feels that he was pushed into doing this, he could be set free.

I would assume this means immediate family... I don't think I could ever forgive another member of my family for killing my child, mentally unstable or not.
 

Northland

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Honestly I was hoping for discussion on this. It was such a barbaric act. It did not seem like mental illness, it seemed like a fit of anger. When a mother drowns her children in the bathtub, that is mental illness to me. When she lets them roll into a lake inside a car, that is murder.
No, you lying little sack of woodrot, you were not hoping for a discussion- need I remind you of this statement?


We may have serial killers in the U.S. But we don't have anything as vile as this. Notice how ironic the last sentence is.
 

findfirefox

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Sorry FFF, you need to do better than this - maybe tomorrow. :rolleyes:

That is a strong argument, telling me to "try again later" while also putting up no rational as to why I would or why you believe that what I said is incorrect.

To which I can see some of the point you are going to make (most likely) I just find them poorly based and a bit on the crazed side.