Bailouts ?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by transformer_99, Dec 21, 2008.

  1. transformer_99

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  2. Elmer Gantry

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    Nope. The genie is out of the bottle now. The precedent of "Privatise profits, socialise losses" has been set.

    Now watch the USD tank out as the Fed tries to print enough money to cover this. I've been crunching numbers on this all last week and it only has bad results.
     
  3. sargon20

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    Execs are American Royalty they will never suffer like the peasants. The entire system is rigged to make CERTAIN they don't suffer the same fate. Kiss da ring bitch.
     
  4. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    When we get to the end of this econ cycle, inflation will probably run up quite a bit. I wonder if these motherf@#$&% banks will ever release some credit. Now the real estate developers need $200 billion because their balloon loans are coming due and none of the banks will extend the credit needed for them to refinance.

    I'm seriously starting to wonder if the banks just want the commercial developers, namely shopping malls, to foreclose so that the banks can take over the property and simply add another profit center.

    They aren't lending shit.
     
  5. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    LMAO. Well done.


    I'm not shocked. But... I'm curious in the FLURRY to make this a headline, if this wasn't some accounting botch up or spin in terms of allocation (a la the "$140 bolts to fasten military toilet seats"). Need to research. [hint: someone could spoon-feed me the logistics here]
     
  6. Notaguru2

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    I put in for my personal bailout, but for some reason it never got past the post-office.
     
  7. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    and by the way.... let's be clear on the two big bailouts....

    a small but fair amount of the banking bailout was to keep the overall system afloat ... mostly in terms of confidence, but some monetary. we'd alllllllll be f'd (around the world) if the US banking system went into a free fall (regardless if it recovered within a year).

    the auto bailout... is pointless, and avoiding reality... and is payback for big union donations. companies fail, and those 3 were already in the toilet.

    net-net... the major wirehouses fold... credit, banks, loans, and the overall economy (which includes cars, as well as Starbucks) are buh-bye.
    the big three fold... or scale back (i.e. Ford makes only trucks)... ppl can still buy cars, get to work, and Hillbilly Mobiles still make left-turns only round an oval somewhere in North Carolina.
     
  8. Notaguru2

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    The bottom line is; a nation without integrity, capitalists without virtues and a genuine lack of accountability deserves SOCIALISM. Capitalists run a muck have forced us into pseudo-socialism - congratulate yourselves.
     
  9. unique_exposure

    unique_exposure New Member

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  10. vince

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    Good one. That's a funny site. I liked "The Chicken" and this one:

    A billion
    A billion is a difficult number to comprehend, but someone did a good job of putting that figure into perspective:
    A billion seconds ago it was 1959.
    A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.
    A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.
    A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the rate Washington spends it.
     
  11. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    If anyone wants someone to blame, they should blame the greed of everyone involved, and that does include most of the public in the United States. Nobody made people shop till they dropped, buy huge houses, expensive autos, and eat out nonstop. The United States had an orgy, and the rest of the world came to the party.
    Material things don't make you somebody just like having a big penis doesn't necessarily make you more of a man or a better lover.
     
  12. transformer_99

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    Not everyone did this. So far the bailouts are failing miserably, mortgages that have been bought back and restructured, still defaulting and the figure is around 30 days after the restructure is the rate of failure in terms of days. Median real estate and mortgage values are still as much as 2 to 2 1/2 times what they should be. Those trying to capitalize on the bailout to create that false floor are in serious denial that incomes for the most part have not paced that inflation. You can't pay/afford what you don't make, the money just isn't there and this is a hard concept for the wealthiest to realize since they have the means to pay. The consumers can't buy/afford their goods.

    My apartment complex is going after more in monthly rent. Hello, we're in a recession here ? The reason I heard was "we have to get FMV" ? If that's the case the last year as real estate has plummeted, I was obviously paying too much for rent ? Shouldn't there be a reduction ? If FMV is dropping like a lead weight dropped into the ocean, gasoline prices are plummetting too, rent and mortgage payments should be too, considering the recession ? Just me, but I'd say the wolves are moving to capture what cost of living reductions have occurred in the price of fuel, trying to grab as much of that as they can for themselves ? So what happens when fuel costs increase again ? Rents will stay falsely inflated and higher ? Industries take turns gouging consumers, some aren't content with their turn or having to wait for their turn, so the result is a recession of the magnitude we have, that will get worse. It's a constant and shifting beat down against the working class from all sides ?
     
  13. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    Rents are going up because too many people can no longer afford a home. Some places have seen housing prices plunge so greatly they are now worth less than are owned on them. It's starting to happen all over the place.
    No, not everybody spent irresponsibly but a large portion of the public did, and it was enough to cause a financial nightmare. Also, people in the US embracing cheap imports at the expense of manufacturing jobs at home was the death nail in the coffin. People in a highly taxed society cannot pay those taxes and work for a wage that competes with someone in a third world country. It can't be done. Plus, we have enormous environmental controls that they don't. It is expected that in the next 20 years, China is going to see an astronomical rise in cancer as a result of industrial polution.
     
  14. transformer_99

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    And that's my point, how long is it going to be, before those that rent are in the same default on monthly payments and can no longer afford to rent a roof over their heads ? The housing/mortgage bailout, as well as any other bailout is sending the wrong messages. Gouge and gouge until the government bails it out ? I've seen rents on apartments that approach home/condo ownership in some of the higher end luxury apartments in Miami, FL. It's both nightmarishly real and surreal at the same time.

    Miami Apartments for Rent - Apartments in Miami - Miami FL Apartment Rentals | MyNewPlace
     
  15. Rikter8

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    T -

    That's apartments in a tourist trap high dollar town.
    That's actually CHEAP compared to apartments in the Metro Detroit area.

    My mom was paying $1100 for a 1 car garage, 1 bedroom rental in the Utica area. That's just to live in a semi-decent place. Believe me - it was NOTHING elaborate. We had to put plastic up on the windows in the winter time or the heat bill was astronomical.

    But your point is well communicated. I think that the only way out is for the market to completely CRASH. The rich will then be poor, and the poor will stay poor.
    Then pick up the pieces and start over.

    The only people that will probably survive the whole ordeal is the middle class, as they are the main working class that makes everything happen.
     
  16. Rikter8

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    I think the global economy and global market finally caught up with all the fast spending.

    Like you said, they want the top dollar pay to produce an american car, but yet they drive a toyota or nissan because they got a better deal, or more importantly....they're built better.

    I still think we switched from a production nation to a service/consumer nation. No exports to make us any money. Uneven trade can only carry on for so long.
     
  17. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    For several years now, J D Power and associates, have reported that vehicles made by US manufacturers have been rising in quality. Mercury was rated higher in owner satisfaction than Honda. People get ideas in their head and never change them. It's like people thought US made electronics were junk. Consumer reports rated Zenith not only as top in quality but a best buy. Peeps still bought imports, and Zenith went bye bye.
     
  18. Notaguru2

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    Unfortunately, quality doesn't translate to likability.
     
  19. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    We're still not going to see any economic strength until the damn banks start lending money. The economy is hogtied. The irony is that banks need to lend in order to make money...particularly in a recession..the profit margins on their other profit centers are skinny.

    How about at least loosening up the book on commercial lending? The economy needs a catalyst and it starts with the credit markets.

    That stupid stimulus package that Pelosi and Obama are pushing won't do much of anything. What's $600 or $700? Half a mortgage payment? A way to catch up on late fees? A new set of tires?

    Cripes, those people who had their mortgages modified have already sunk back into default. Let's stop throwing good money after bad, and allow financing for people that can pay it back, and provide stimulus for entities that can get the economy moving, create jobs and spending.....not send it to people that will just pay down past-due debt.

    If its truly a stimulus package, it should be designed to stimulate. Sending money to those that will just pay down debt is philanthropy, not stimulus.

    Nothing wrong with philanthropy, but that's not what the libs are calling this.
     
  20. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    GMAC got chartered as a bank and got its hands into the bailout money today. By 9:00 a.m. they already dropped the credit score req't for auto loans from 700 down to 621.

    At least somebody is using the TARP money to extend credit.
     
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