Banning straight men

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by dolf250, Jul 17, 2007.

?

Based on the information in the link is the ruling discriminatory and is it wrong.

  1. Yes, it is discriminatory and it is wrong

    27 vote(s)
    61.4%
  2. Yes it is discriminatory but too bad, I support the ban anyhow

    11 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. No it is not discriminatory.

    6 vote(s)
    13.6%
  1. dolf250

    dolf250 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Great White North
    I just do not know where to post this. I would say relationship and discrimination, but an Australian court has ruled it not to be discrimination, so I am now at a loss and it ends up in the etc forum.

    Gay Aussie hotel wins right to ban heterosexuals, lesbians

    So, any comments in favour of the banning of straights from your club? I know that we are talking disruptive and mean spirited men, but that is not a matter of banning everybody who is straight so much as it a matter for the doormen to toss anybody who steps out of line from the club and management to ban them for life. That would have cleaned up his bar in a hurry, but instead the owner went through the courts and got an order effectively banning all women (lesbians included) and straight men- and the human rights groups APPLAUD it.

    My father years ago was upset at the gay pride parade in town. He said “we couldn't have a straight pride parade.” I asked him why not. If you want to step up and organize it I would bet you could; but you would have to leave the parade open to gays to participate in just as they have left it open for straights to participate in their day. In this case, I can't think of what I could say to defend a ruling like this.

    I have made the poll anonymous (if I did it correctly) so that you can vote the truth of what you feel. I would appreciate any comments though.

    The quotes that I found most interesting belonged to the owner of the nightclub who said "With the heterosexual males, if they identify themselves as that at the door, or indeed we question their behavior in the venue and if they come across as being heterosexual, then we will simply ask them to leave if the behavior is inappropriate."

    Also, "When large numbers of heterosexuals or even lesbians are in the hotel that changes the atmosphere and many gay men can feel uncomfortable." I worked in the nightclubs for quite awhile and can tell you that when even two openly gay men are on the dance floor it can make straight men feel uncomfortable. That is not a reason to ban them.
     
  2. crescendo69

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    8,142
    Likes Received:
    20
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    Would you have to apply for a gay ID card?
     
  3. wingnut84

    wingnut84 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    SATX
    What link?

    Anyway, from what I understand, yes, they do have the right to do this. Any owner of a private establishment can say who he or she wants patronizing them, PC or not.
     
  4. dreamer20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,492
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Providence
  5. ganja4me

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,335
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    U.S.
    I guess they have the right to do it but I don't see why. If it was my club it would be open to everyone. I would just have bouncers to make sure things don't get out of hand.
     
  6. rob_just_rob

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,037
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Nowhere near you
    I seem to recall this (or a similar) decision being discussed before, here.

    That's a tough one. On the surface, this is discrimination. You can't bar gay people from a hotel, but you can bar straights/lesbians. Clear double standard.

    I have heard that the context for this ruling was that some obnoxious straight people were making asses of themselves, and the establishment wanted the right to refuse these known troublemakers entry (as opposed to letting them in, and waiting for them to cause trouble). If that is in fact the case... the ruling is a little more defensible.
     
  7. dolf250

    dolf250 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Great White North
    Sorry; I was a little slow with the link. It is up. In theory you are correct; but the men only clubs have died and been ruled illegal and while you can limit who you allow in your club you can not say that gay men(or for the present moment, in this country, straight men) are not allowed into your establishment. Nor can you deny rent to anybody based on orientation or race... You can place limits on who you allow in, but you have to follow the charter of human rights.

    The way that the liquor laws read in Canada is that the owner has the right to refuse entry to a patron. Banning a person for life is perfectly acceptable if he has caused problems; banning them for life because the are not the “right orientation” is not.
     
  8. SpeedoGuy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    4,229
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Many laws have been passed banning discrimination based on race, age, sex, disability, marital status, and religion, among other other things.
     
  9. rob_just_rob

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,037
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Nowhere near you
    What are the laws in Australia?

    Personally I tend to believe that if you own a bar/club, you ought to be able to let in those you want and deny entrance to the ones you don't. I believe that stance is workable here if you start issuing membership cards.
     
  10. Mr. Snakey

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    24,702
    Likes Received:
    25
    Yes this has been happening . Its not that they just flat out banned Straight Guys. It was the only thing they do.
     
  11. MH07

    MH07 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Messages:
    438
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    14
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Houston
    You can in almost every place in the United States. Except for San Francisco, perhaps NYC and maybe Minneapolis, it is perfectly ok and legal for gay people to be banned. We are certainly not protected, and there are many places that practice outright discrimination against gays.

    If you only had any idea how many slurs/arrows/vicious remarks/casual discrimination incidents we put up with daily (and can't say one word about them for fear of losing jobs, being kicked out of condos, etc)...

    I have never personally had a job (I'm professional, age 50) where it was even remotely "ok" for me to be gay. No pics of the lover on my desk. Must obtain "date" for company functions (I have a lesbian friend and we switch off; you have no idea how many people ask, "SO, when are y'all going to get married? I want so badly to say to them, "She IS married, you dolt, and I'm freshly divorced after 7 years" but of course, since we're gay, our relationships don't count).

    What does this have to do with the original post? I voted "it's discrimination but so what?" above. Why? Because you straight folks have thousands of places to go without invading the ONE OR TWO places we have.

    We had a bar here that had the best dance music in town; straight women started coming there for the dancing, dragging straight men. This was a GAY club; it said so at the entrance. Nevertheless, if one mistakenly approached a straight man (who must have forgotten to wear his "I'm straight" button...) and so much as asked for the time, one was pretty much going to get some harsh words, a mean look, "Fuck off, faggot" etc. Um, buddy, YOU are in a GAY club. The STRAIGHT bar is down the street, mmm'k?

    Now the bar is completely straight. We were driven out of our own bar (the only one in this small community).

    Is discrimination ok? No. But as long as gays are persecuted in this country just for being gay, then it's ok for us to put up a sign, "Straights not welcome".

    (I just spent the weekend in Palm Springs. Blissful. Know why? Because I knew that I wasn't going to get my brains bashed in just for being gay, which is very possible here in the freaking Bible Belt. And before you say, "well, why don't you just move?", why should I have to leave my home, my family, my friends?)

    Rant over, sorry for the rant. Just pushed my buttons, that's all.
     
  12. MH07

    MH07 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Messages:
    438
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    14
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Houston

    Yes, but not SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
     
  13. SpeedoGuy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    4,229
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Depends where.
     
  14. rob_just_rob

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,037
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Nowhere near you
    Uh, I'm in Canada (where discrimination against homosexuals IS illegal), and the establishment mentioned in the OP is in Australia. The USA doesn't enter into the issue we've been discussing.

    I truly am sorry that the discrimination is as bad as it is where you are. That being as it is, I understand your need to rant, but I think you're ranting in the wrong direction.
     
  15. MH07

    MH07 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Messages:
    438
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    14
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Houston
    The number of places in the US (can't speak to other countries) which ban discrimination against gays is miniscule. And, there is no federal protection at all.

    I will also say I find it amusing when straight men are shocked when I point this out to them. (Friends, etc). They can't believe discrimination against gays is legal.
     
  16. mindseye

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    5,685
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    The thread was here.
     
  17. MH07

    MH07 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Messages:
    438
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    14
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Houston
    I'd move to Canada this minute if it weren't so dang cold! ;-)

    I know the place was in Australia; I also know it is illegal to discriminate in Canada. There are a lot of US men on this thread, some of whom seem to feel that it's illegal to discriminate against gays. Wanted to set the record straight (pun intended).

    Almost all of the former British holdings (or current British holdings) (with the exception of US and South Africa) are pretty enlightened places.
     
  18. SpeedoGuy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    4,229
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Agreed. My original point was to make it clear that restaurant/bar owners (at least those in the US) don't have the right to eject anyone just because they feel like it.

    Its no surprise to me, having seen overt discrimination practiced against gay family members in the US. But I'm concerned that if you characterize the reactions of unaware straights as "amusing" you might sound a bit patronizing or condescending. I fear that could possibly offend potential sympathetic voting allies and undermine efforts to raise awareness about discrimination. Few people in such circumstances enjoy being thought of as "amusing."
     
  19. Matthew

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    8,374
    Likes Received:
    162
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    Dolf, first of all let me say that if this thread descends into a flame war (I know that could never happen here), I want to say that I have a lot of respect for the way you carry yourself here, including on gay issues. You've shown a willingness to question yourself and to challenge homophobia in a good way IMO.

    I say that because I didn't want to get that confused with how I feel about this particular issue: I think to consider it serious is like noting that a pebble is essentially made out of the same stuff as Mount Everest.

    So now you guys can't get into some bar in Australia? MUST SUCK TO BE YOU. :wink:
     
  20. MH07

    MH07 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Messages:
    438
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    14
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Houston

    I didn't say I LAUGH at them. Quite the contrary, I try to explain to them that it is perfectly ok to discriminate against gay people, that it is done to me personally daily, and give examples. Almost all of the time, I hear, "Wow, I just had no idea..." and THAT's the part that is amusing. It is also very gratifying when they almost invariably say, "That's totally not right, something should be done!"

    My first trip to Palm Springs (years ago), after a day or so, I felt GREAT. I just couldn't figure it out; was it the dry air? The heat? Why did I feel so good??? I finally realized: because, for the first time in my life, I wasn't hiding anything, wasn't afraid to just be myself and not worry about some stupid redneck bashing my face because I was gay; wasn't afraid to just be NORMAL. Then I realized: this is what straight people feel like all the time, all their lives.

    I wish I could move there. Instead, I'm at least moving from Little Rock back to HOUSTON, where you can semi-sort of get by. Still, at the large corporation where I work, I wouldn't DARE let anyone know. I'm "divorced" (from a man, but they don't know that...) and don't want to marry again. That's my cover story. If I didn't have a cover story and play the role of "divorced straight guy" to the hilt, every hour of every day, without a single slipup, I'd be fired on the spot.

    Really.

    At my former large corporation, widely recognized as one of the most gay-friendly in the nation, when I arrived at corporate hq I was very excited. Very quickly, a fellow manager (also gay; his gaydar worked) took me aside and explained, "Look, sister, that "gay-friendly" corporate policy is bullshit, just for public consumption. If you want to succeed here, if you want to move up, you'd better be 'straight' and play the game; otherwise, you'll hit the (terribly tasteful, etched frosted) glass ceiling and go nowhere fast." For the record, they also didn't have any women, blacks, hispanics, or anything else other than white, heterosexual, married males in senior management. They had this big reputation for being a "good place to work" for gays, blacks, women---as long as the faggots, n---ers, and skirts kept to their places...
     
Draft saved Draft deleted