Bathroom Remodel Tears

tripod

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Do the demolition yourself, it is requires no skill and will save you TOOOONS of monaayyy!!!!!!!!!!

Then decide what kind of cement backerboard that you will need and install that yourself too, there is VERY little skill required to install the backerboard.

Then call a tiler and ask him to give you an estimate of just installing and grouting the tile on an existing substrate.

Demolition is sweaty and nasty work, tilers will charge you an arm and a leg to do what you could have done yourself. They will likewise charge you good money to install the backerboard too.

If you have never worked with a chalk centerline or level before and don't know what "plumb" means then get a tiler to do the actual tile laying. If you know what plumb means, have worked with a chalkline and can read a level well, then tackle it yourself.

I demolished an laid an entire bathroom (floor to ceiling) when I was around 21 with no previous experience (I apprenticed under a master tiler for only six months) and it came out real good. I'll try and upload a pic of it today, you'll be inspired when you see it.
 

thadjock

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Do the demolition yourself, it is requires no skill and will save you TOOOONS of monaayyy!!!!!!!!!!
.

^this is true,

not sure about the tons part (it's all relative) but it will definitely save u $$$ if you don't mind gettin ur hands dirty

i dont' know if the OP's quote included demo, plumbing rough-in/trim, and tile? if it did, $5k total project is a deal for socal, i admit that might sound insane somewhere else.
 

petite

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^this is true,

not sure about the tons part (it's all relative) but it will definitely save u $$$ if you don't mind gettin ur hands dirty

i dont' know if the OP's quote included demo, plumbing rough-in/trim, and tile? if it did, $5k total project is a deal for socal, i admit that might sound insane somewhere else.

That's what I was just wondering. I'm not in socal and I know that builders here are really struggling and I was wondering if that's why we got such a good deal on the work we just got done just a few months ago. I'm sure that competition and plenty of people without work has driven the prices down in our area.

We had plumbing for two sinks and a toilet put in, as well as building several walls to create a second bath and storage room and a partition wall for the open kitchen, floor tile installation for two bathrooms, installing kitchen cabinets, a dishwasher, oven, and a cooktop.
 
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thadjock

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That's what I was just wondering. I'm not in socal and I know that builders here are really struggling and I was wondering if that's why we got such a good deal on the work we just got done just a few months ago. I'm sure that competition and plenty of people without work has driven the prices down in our area.
.

what part of the country are you in?

I think the economy here has put pressure on contractors by needing to be more competitive, but OC/LA is a big area with wide range of construction going on. yeah the new housing market crashed and burned hard, like it did in most big bubble markets, but there's a still a strong high end market. true we don't see as many $20mil houses going up if any, but there are still people spending money.

I can only offer my own take on how things are here (and by here i mean my little part of LA, not the entire metro area), and i'd say any contractor who had a decent rep, and establilshed clients, is still getting a fair price for his work, and staying busy. I don't think labor costs can come down much, unless you go off the grid with undocumented (we have too high insurance & tax rates here) but one thing that is helping out clients/homeowners is lower material costs now, due to less demand.

i was talking with a friend who's also in construction who did say this: "you know 2 yrs ago we'd show up to bid a job and there'd be 3 other people there bidding it with decent numbers and u'd make a decent profit, now 20 guys show up and all try to under bid the guy who's using break-even numbers, just to get the job...its crazy" i haven't had that experience but it's out there.
 

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Thanks guys for the advice. Seriously. There is no damage to the area. The bathtub/shower that is there is fiberglass and I believe with good body coverage I can cut it out. I have been told the drain should be moved over to the center. That move seems tough to do. I think if everything was taken to the point of the tiling I could indeed do it. I am good with detail in craft type projects. What I have found in the market is that some guys aren't working as much and want to make up the loss in a single project. The appliances in the house have been purchased with great deals but the installation I have found has been steep in comparison to what people think the market calling for. I knew I could get good advice from you guys. LPSG rocks.

No, the drain doesn't have to be moved. Dude, I just did this kind of job myself in my own home a couple of years back. The hardest part will be getting that tub and fiberglass enclosure out of there.

After that depends on whether there's sheetrock behind it or not. You'd probably prefer it wasn't because there's a certain type of sheetrock that's made for bathroom applications, so you might have to replace it anyway. (make sure you don't buy "China Drywall").

As I said H. Depot sells shower basins (prefab) that fit a normal 60" tub space, with the slope built in and the drain right where the tub drain was.
You stick it down with some construction adhesive, and connect a drain designed for that kind of unit. The base might be 32 wide, and your tub may have been 30", like mine was. So to be able to move it in enuf to go over the drain I notched the bottom of my studs and it slid in just fine.

Tile over the sheetrock right down to about 1/8 inch above the shower base. Grout it up (there's a newfangled plastic based grout that's waterproof but way more expensive than the regular stuff. A bead of clear or white silicone can also be used to waterproof the junction.

Even a cheap wet tile saw (about 75.00 bucks new) can make the cutting way easy. Unless you're making major mods to the shower set up (like i did) fitting some new fixtures should be easy. Hell, you can even keep the faucet. It'll come in handy. And I like I said, there's a nice selection of shower doors that'll fit that space just fine.

If you're doing the floor too, you'd best take up the toilet. Unscrew it, move it, tile your floor then reset it (on a new wax ring and screw set). Be sure to turn off the water at the wall, disconnect the flex pipe and drain it as best you can first.
 

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I thank you again and read with interest. I also received a nice private email on the same topic and all are giving me things to think about. I already had three guys lined up today for estimates so I thought I would hear them out. In order: 3,500 8,000 12,000 Just gets better and better.
 

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If you are a self-respecting gay guy Cube, DON'T get a one piece fiberglass shower tub enclosure. They reek of Motel 6 and scream CHEAP. Even the ones with the fake tile imprints are H I D E O U S.
 

earllogjam

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Tile over the sheetrock right down to about 1/8 inch above the shower base.

I hope you didn't use regular sheetrock behind that tile. The standard detail is to use a moisture proof cement board like Wonderboard or Hardiboard as a surface for tiling with a water proof membrane behind the cement board.

Drywall will disintegrate with all the moisture coming thru the grout from the shower and the moisture will go right thru to the studs causing for sure dry rot.
 

thadjock

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I thank you again and read with interest. I also received a nice private email on the same topic and all are giving me things to think about. I already had three guys lined up today for estimates so I thought I would hear them out. In order: 3,500 8,000 12,000 Just gets better and better.

i would caution you to take all the advise you've been given here with a grain of salt. it's impossible to evaluate any of the proposals you've gotten from contractors without seeing your bathroom, and knowing exactly what the job involves. and different areas of the country are going to have widely varying rates.

So Unless you, as a homeowner are fluent enough in "construction-ese" you're going to be at the mercy of whatever contractor you hire, so choose carefully and GET REFERENCES! other homeowner's personal experiences are the best. Someone you know has had work done by someone they felt confident about and were pleased with, start there. I'm not sure what city you live in but you will be dealing with building & safety, need a permit, and the project will be inspected by the city, if you do it yourself you'll need to secure the necessary documents and approval.

and though there's been alot of good tips given here, if anybody shows up and says they're going to install drywall or sheet-rock (yes even the green "water resistant" variety) for the tile backer, ask them to leave, tear up their business card and then call a priest to get their residue out of your house. there are at least 4 superior products on the market that are permanently water proof and are no more costly or difficult to install than drywall. we tear out bathrooms all the time because water has leaked into the drywall behind the tile, and caused a failure.
 

vince

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Yes to the above and if you do do the demo and the backerboard installation yourself, you should know that this is perhaps the important step and be very careful to get the board in straight and level and SQUARE. It is the foundation of the job and of you get it wrong the extra work will be real painful and it will never look right.

Sorry but I am damn nearly a perfectionist when it comes to this stuff.
 

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If you are a self-respecting gay guy Cube, DON'T get a one piece fiberglass shower tub enclosure. They reek of Motel 6 and scream CHEAP. Even the ones with the fake tile imprints are H I D E O U S.

Yep, the fiberglass one is coming out but not going back in...I do have that strong enough gay gene to keep that at bay. :)
 

CUBE

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i would caution you to take all the advise you've been given here with a grain of salt. it's impossible to evaluate any of the proposals you've gotten from contractors without seeing your bathroom, and knowing exactly what the job involves. and different areas of the country are going to have widely varying rates.

So Unless you, as a homeowner are fluent enough in "construction-ese" you're going to be at the mercy of whatever contractor you hire, so choose carefully and GET REFERENCES! other homeowner's personal experiences are the best. Someone you know has had work done by someone they felt confident about and were pleased with, start there. I'm not sure what city you live in but you will be dealing with building & safety, need a permit, and the project will be inspected by the city, if you do it yourself you'll need to secure the necessary documents and approval.

and though there's been alot of good tips given here, if anybody shows up and says they're going to install drywall or sheet-rock (yes even the green "water resistant" variety) for the tile backer, ask them to leave, tear up their business card and then call a priest to get their residue out of your house. there are at least 4 superior products on the market that are permanently water proof and are no more costly or difficult to install than drywall. we tear out bathrooms all the time because water has leaked into the drywall behind the tile, and caused a failure.

Thanks. What is the preferred backer in the savy bathroom remodel please?
 

thadjock

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Thanks. What is the preferred backer in the savy bathroom remodel please?

two brand names long tested in the industry are Durock & Wonderboard available at home depot and lowes just about everywhere. they both have websites, google away. just be careful of "tile blogs" or do it yourself advise sites, sometimes they get paid to pimp one brand or type over another.

stick with their all portland cement products, several maufacturers offer "light weight" versions that make it lighter and easier to handle but in my opinion it's a compromise.

and the problem recently has been the introduction of alot of other "backerboards" so it's a little more confusing, i'd avoid Easyboard, which is essential polyisocyanurate foam with a thin skin of fiber-cement on it, and Hardiebacker that is cement-cellulose based.

and the floor needs tile backer too, don't let the contractor install tile over plywood underlayment or wood subfloor, if your'e on a concrete slab that's perfect . oh and another red flag is if he wants to use mastic instead of thinset to put the tile on the wonderboard,some guys will try this trick because it's faster and easier, but mastic is not waterproof and then that becomes the weak link creating a seperation point and failure.

the easy way is just hire a quality contractor, then you don't have to fry your brain with any of this. and i can't emphasise enough the importance of finding him through personal references. don't call somebody up out of the yellow pages and let him provide you with names, he'll cherry pick the jobs that went well and never mention the ones that didn't, and you have no idea what the % split is.
 

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I watched the guy tile my bathroom and as easy as it may seem I know I couldnt have done it. He had a water saw that he used that I wouldve been terrified of. He had to do some very intricate cutting around things, and my travertine was expensive so I wouldnt have wanted to waste any of it. The pencil rail tiles alone were $9 a piece. It is very expensive and time consuming to do a bathroom but 5k does seem very steep. I'd hire someone to work alongside you and that way you can do the labor but not screw it up too badly.:)
 

thadjock

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well alot of people think 5k sounds high, but dont' forget your'e paying him for his knowledge as well as his manual skills

alot of homeowners could definitely do the physical work themselves but alot won't be able to know what sequence the various processes should be in etc. or be able to create a finished product that is aesthetically and functionally excellent.
 

petite

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I watched the guy tile my bathroom and as easy as it may seem I know I couldnt have done it. He had a water saw that he used that I wouldve been terrified of. He had to do some very intricate cutting around things, and my travertine was expensive so I wouldnt have wanted to waste any of it. The pencil rail tiles alone were $9 a piece. It is very expensive and time consuming to do a bathroom but 5k does seem very steep. I'd hire someone to work alongside you and that way you can do the labor but not screw it up too badly.:)

The water saw isn't a big deal to use. It's easy to use safely. We also used travertine on the first kitchen and it cuts through it like butter. I did all the tile cutting on the first kitchen because I was more precise than TheBoyfriend and while I was cutting, he laid the tile.

We also used hired labor to work alongside us for other parts of the job, but tiling isn't one of those things you need a lot of instruction to do.
 

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I hope you didn't use regular sheetrock behind that tile. The standard detail is to use a moisture proof cement board like Wonderboard or Hardiboard as a surface for tiling with a water proof membrane behind the cement board.

Drywall will disintegrate with all the moisture coming thru the grout from the shower and the moisture will go right thru to the studs causing for sure dry rot.

As I stated in an above post, there is drywall made for bathroom installations, and yes, we used it. It's green in color. In fact, I think it's called green board.

I used some of the Hardibacker (board) to face a tub enclosure in another bath. (But I made the mistake of cutting it with a table saw sending up a cloud of dust. Won't do that again.)

Hardiboard is thinner though the makers claim it's stronger. I prefer working with the thicker and easier to cut, modify and poke the necessary holes through, green board.

Also, my shower enclosure is grouted with a waterproof resin based grout called Opticolor.
 

b.c.

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I watched the guy tile my bathroom and as easy as it may seem I know I couldnt have done it. He had a water saw that he used that I wouldve been terrified of. He had to do some very intricate cutting around things, and my travertine was expensive so I wouldnt have wanted to waste any of it. The pencil rail tiles alone were $9 a piece. It is very expensive and time consuming to do a bathroom but 5k does seem very steep. I'd hire someone to work alongside you and that way you can do the labor but not screw it up too badly.:)

The wet tile saw does look and sound intimidating. But as long as you don't get your fingers anywhere near the blade (which doesn't even have teeth like a normal saw blade) most regular cuts are no sweat.

The REAL "fun" is in drilling holes thru ceramic tile so you can attach things to the wall.