BDSM: Male/female Domination vs. Sexism
- Thread starter Belly_Dancer
- Start date
Really? Are you sure? Any anthropological studies to back it up? Or is that just your opinion based on your experience?
Shelby
Experimental Member
I'm sure there are but I'm not going to bother looking for them because it's self evident. Not on an individual basis i.e., my experience but in general.
And it's true not only for humans but for practically every species on earth.
Shelby
Experimental Member
Not true for me. Not trying to negate your assertion either....just saying....
I think you were also assuming the dominant role comes naturally to males in the Animal Kingdom. How do you explain the sexual dominance in female bees? Spiders? Cheetahs?
Thank you, both DC and curiousgurl, for taking time to explain and provide links. Like many others, i've been curious as to what the BdSm lifestyle is all about and I know better than to make judgments on things about which I know very little. Once again, i'm reminded of the complexities of human sexuality but I think that's one of the most interesting things about being human, frankly.
No, I understood you to mean protector and provider.
I would think that in humans, it's probably more cultural than instinctual. In other species, I don't think that really factors in for most of them. It would only be evolved in species that mate for life, which really is not very many.
Wow, I love that constant struggle as well! But I must admit, I sometimes like that struggle to go to the bedroom. I've never been good at submission. I will let a woman have control, but in the end I'll take over unless she's really good at what she's doing.
Incredibly good point. I do not seek out a dominate male, in fact,
predominate dominance (hah) in a male is a major turn off for me. I like a quiet, sensitive, almost... feminine man. That doesn't mean I want a man who cross dresses, or takes more time to get ready than I do...but one who can appreciate the tenderness that a woman is, that isn't all barbaric and controling. Some dominate men are like that, I was married to one.
Indeed it is....:wink:
Shelby
Experimental Member
It is obviously somehow to their biological advantage.
I knew there were abberations. I don't believe humans are one of them. Lyrics like 'You've got to be a football hero to get along with the beautiful girls' didn't come from nowhere.
If all esle were equal would you choose a more or less powerful male to father your offspring?
I don't agree with applying Darwinian theories to modern Human society. Humans are vastly more intelligent than any other species on this planet. We rely far less on our instincts than any other animal because of our superior ability to think and process information. For example our closest relatives in the wild are chimps. They do seek dominant males. But because of that they are also polygamous. Chimps also engange in cannibalism. Is it natural for humans to be polygamous cannibals because our chimp predecessors live like that? Seems like DEvolution to me. Even if it is in our instincts, what does that mean? I don't speak for females but I would imagine that they usually prefer to less dominant male than a dominant one who forces them into polygamy. Even for mating and casual fucking. I figured this one out when I lived in a muslim country where polygamy was allowed.
What constitutes dominance among humans anyway? Is it raw physical power? Aesthetics? Intellects? Of course it's combination of these, but then which is more important? Intelligent people learn quicker, master a skill at a higher level and are more creative. Does that by default make them better fuckers? What if they don't have the stamina of a more powerful person?
I think these are the questions that need to be asked, and the questions that we clearly don't have answers to.
Shelby
Experimental Member
lol, now there's a positive stance.
and to vibratingfinger -
If you're up for it, go to the library and check out the pulitzer prize winning On Human Nature by Edward O. Wilson. Skip straight to the chapter on sex. This is one of the best books I have ever read.
I’m sorry I “fell off the board” for a couple of days -- I got a migraine, and then AW and I were busy doing some other things. Anyway, DC_DEEP did a superb job answering all of MB’s questions, including the first three, but I do want to add some personal observations about her first two original questions, from the subjective viewpoint of my own relationship.
Clear, timely communication is absolutely crucial for Artfulwilly and I to have a healthy Master/slave relationship.
As his submissive, I have a responsibility to keep him informed of my mental, emotional, and physical condition at all times, and he will be very disappointed in me if I don’t. Frequently, as soon as he gets home, or we get up in the morning, or after dinner, etc., he’ll ask, “How do you feel?” He wants a very specific answer, because he’s using it to decide what he will or will not do.
Example:
Recently, I've had some migraine headaches, but I’m quite a trooper. I hate being confined to bed, I hate not being able to live my life, and as a sub, I feel especially disconnected if I’m not serving my Master. I am physically tough, and capable of doing many things despite a migraine, including sucking his cock (which is one of my favorite activities in life). However, the pounding of face-fucking and/or holding my breath while deep-throating would make a migraine worse. Regardless of that, if it were up to me, more often than not I would still service his cock enthusiastically, unless I were utterly incapacitated.
However, it’s not up to me. He’s told me in no uncertain terms that if I ever have a migraine or other illness and don’t tell him, he will punish me in a way I will not enjoy -- by ignoring me for whatever period of time he deems appropriate to the offense.
For a submissive/slave, being ignored is the worst possible punishment. The thought of it strikes fear into my heart...so that and my intrinsic need not to disappoint my Master keep me very honest with him about my physical condition.
Artfulwilly will not let me suck his cock if I have a migraine. He may allow me to gently lick it, or gently take it in my mouth, if I am desperate to. He also won’t spank, flog, or otherwise engage in SM behavior with me if I have a migraine. I won’t go into a lengthy discourse on masochism, but for me, a good flogging is probably more enjoyable than a good massage. So in refusing to aggravate my headache by flogging me, etc., he is making a better decision for me than I would make for myself.
If anything is truly physically wrong with me (pulled muscle, bronchitis, migraine, pussy so sore it’s about to be “out of commission”...he insists on knowing about it, and will take responsibility for my welfare.
So...what would I do if he asked me to do something clearly wrong?
In considering my answer to your question, MB, I had to seriously ask myself what he might order me to do (including outside the sexual arena) that would be “clearly wrong.” For any situation I imagine, I simply cannot picture him forcing me to do something wrong, or something that would be truly destructive to either of us, or anyone else. I just cannot conceive of him putting selfish or irresponsible interests above his or my welfare.
That said, the “safe word” (in our relationship) extends even beyond the sexual arena, to any emergency situation that could occur. I have never used it, but I know that in any situation, he would rather I use the safe word to draw a necessary boundary than be harmed in any way. He may hurt me (which we both enjoy), but he would never willingly harm me. There’s a difference.
This is a fun one to answer. At first, it was hard to avoid “topping from the bottom,” which is when the submissive tries to direct the Dom’s activities. It basically rains on the parade for both parties, no matter how gently it’s done, if it’s done in the context of the sexual encounter (or scene) itself. But you're right -- a Dom does need some feedback from time to time.
As a couple, we've found some delightful ways to work around this. One is that Artfulwilly loves hearing erotic stories I have written or made up in my head. As the storyteller, I incorporate things that turn me on, whether we have done them yet or not. I am very descriptive, and express sexual desire as well as sexual satisfaction well in writing (or in verbal storytelling). So even though I may not be directly saying, “Do this,” I’m keeping him tuned in to what’s going on in my mind and heart.
Ultimately, of course, it’s his choice whether and/or when to act on my “suggestions.” But there’s no question that my wishes have been made known.
In addition to my own stories, sometimes I’ll tell him about a scene I’ve enjoyed in a story written by someone else. The principle is the same -- sharing of ideas and communication of desire, without issuing orders or giving explicit direction.
Some Dominants like their submissives to keep journals, which the Dominants have access to, so they know what the submissive is thinking during scenes and during everyday life. I don’t journal specifically, because writing fiction is more fun for me, but if a sub was not quite so creatively inclined, I think journalling would be a great idea.
Finally, just recently we’ve discovered another fun way to communicate desires. We play a card game, such as Rummy 500, and for each hand that is won, the winner gets to make a wish. Whoever wins the entire game gets to make an even bigger wish.
Of course, on his side, this is a bit silly...he really doesn’t have to make wishes, because he can ask me for anything he wants anyway. But when either of us makes a wish that was won in a game of cards, we don’t doubt the legitimacy of what the other person is asking for, not one bit. One time he won, and his wish was to give me a full body massage! But I had to submit to it (oh darn) and I really did believe that was what he most wanted as a prize.
Other times I’ve won and asked him to read to me out of a BDSM-related book (which he has recently put his own spin on, by binding me to a chair, blindfolding me, stroking my pussy and torturing my nipples while reading to me...) :naughty: but you get the idea.
One time I won a hand, and flat-out asked for a “nice flogging.” Of course, the definition of “nice flogging” was left up to his interpretation, but I enjoyed every second of my prize. And for some reason, when I’m selecting a prize because I won a game, I don’t feel like I’m topping from the bottom. Instead, I feel like a kid in a candy store. :biggrin1:
“mercurialbliss” said:
Clear, timely communication is absolutely crucial for Artfulwilly and I to have a healthy Master/slave relationship.
As his submissive, I have a responsibility to keep him informed of my mental, emotional, and physical condition at all times, and he will be very disappointed in me if I don’t. Frequently, as soon as he gets home, or we get up in the morning, or after dinner, etc., he’ll ask, “How do you feel?” He wants a very specific answer, because he’s using it to decide what he will or will not do.
Example:
Recently, I've had some migraine headaches, but I’m quite a trooper. I hate being confined to bed, I hate not being able to live my life, and as a sub, I feel especially disconnected if I’m not serving my Master. I am physically tough, and capable of doing many things despite a migraine, including sucking his cock (which is one of my favorite activities in life). However, the pounding of face-fucking and/or holding my breath while deep-throating would make a migraine worse. Regardless of that, if it were up to me, more often than not I would still service his cock enthusiastically, unless I were utterly incapacitated.
However, it’s not up to me. He’s told me in no uncertain terms that if I ever have a migraine or other illness and don’t tell him, he will punish me in a way I will not enjoy -- by ignoring me for whatever period of time he deems appropriate to the offense.
For a submissive/slave, being ignored is the worst possible punishment. The thought of it strikes fear into my heart...so that and my intrinsic need not to disappoint my Master keep me very honest with him about my physical condition.
Artfulwilly will not let me suck his cock if I have a migraine. He may allow me to gently lick it, or gently take it in my mouth, if I am desperate to. He also won’t spank, flog, or otherwise engage in SM behavior with me if I have a migraine. I won’t go into a lengthy discourse on masochism, but for me, a good flogging is probably more enjoyable than a good massage. So in refusing to aggravate my headache by flogging me, etc., he is making a better decision for me than I would make for myself.
If anything is truly physically wrong with me (pulled muscle, bronchitis, migraine, pussy so sore it’s about to be “out of commission”
...he insists on knowing about it, and will take responsibility for my welfare.So...what would I do if he asked me to do something clearly wrong?
In considering my answer to your question, MB, I had to seriously ask myself what he might order me to do (including outside the sexual arena) that would be “clearly wrong.” For any situation I imagine, I simply cannot picture him forcing me to do something wrong, or something that would be truly destructive to either of us, or anyone else. I just cannot conceive of him putting selfish or irresponsible interests above his or my welfare.
That said, the “safe word” (in our relationship) extends even beyond the sexual arena, to any emergency situation that could occur. I have never used it, but I know that in any situation, he would rather I use the safe word to draw a necessary boundary than be harmed in any way. He may hurt me (which we both enjoy), but he would never willingly harm me. There’s a difference.
“mercurialbliss” said:
This is a fun one to answer. At first, it was hard to avoid “topping from the bottom,” which is when the submissive tries to direct the Dom’s activities. It basically rains on the parade for both parties, no matter how gently it’s done, if it’s done in the context of the sexual encounter (or scene) itself. But you're right -- a Dom does need some feedback from time to time.
As a couple, we've found some delightful ways to work around this. One is that Artfulwilly loves hearing erotic stories I have written or made up in my head. As the storyteller, I incorporate things that turn me on, whether we have done them yet or not. I am very descriptive, and express sexual desire as well as sexual satisfaction well in writing (or in verbal storytelling). So even though I may not be directly saying, “Do this,” I’m keeping him tuned in to what’s going on in my mind and heart.
Ultimately, of course, it’s his choice whether and/or when to act on my “suggestions.” But there’s no question that my wishes have been made known.
In addition to my own stories, sometimes I’ll tell him about a scene I’ve enjoyed in a story written by someone else. The principle is the same -- sharing of ideas and communication of desire, without issuing orders or giving explicit direction.
Some Dominants like their submissives to keep journals, which the Dominants have access to, so they know what the submissive is thinking during scenes and during everyday life. I don’t journal specifically, because writing fiction is more fun for me, but if a sub was not quite so creatively inclined, I think journalling would be a great idea.
Finally, just recently we’ve discovered another fun way to communicate desires. We play a card game, such as Rummy 500, and for each hand that is won, the winner gets to make a wish. Whoever wins the entire game gets to make an even bigger wish.
Of course, on his side, this is a bit silly...he really doesn’t have to make wishes, because he can ask me for anything he wants anyway. But when either of us makes a wish that was won in a game of cards, we don’t doubt the legitimacy of what the other person is asking for, not one bit. One time he won, and his wish was to give me a full body massage! But I had to submit to it (oh darn)
and I really did believe that was what he most wanted as a prize.Other times I’ve won and asked him to read to me out of a BDSM-related book (which he has recently put his own spin on, by binding me to a chair, blindfolding me, stroking my pussy and torturing my nipples while reading to me...) :naughty: but you get the idea.
One time I won a hand, and flat-out asked for a “nice flogging.” Of course, the definition of “nice flogging” was left up to his interpretation, but I enjoyed every second of my prize. And for some reason, when I’m selecting a prize because I won a game, I don’t feel like I’m topping from the bottom. Instead, I feel like a kid in a candy store. :biggrin1:
Shelby
Experimental Member
One more likely to be able to protect you and your offspring from predators. (also more likely to pass this trait on)
Shelby
Experimental Member
One more likely to be able to protect you and your offspring from predators. (also more likely to pass this trait on)
note - think broadly concerning what I mean by predators
whoops, sorry about the post and a half
vancouvergirl
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How on earth did i miss this? Sorry HollyBlue, i said i would be here to support this thread and i wasn't. I can't believe it was posted 5 days ago and has 5 pages of comments already! Wow!
You really said it right, i think. I feel so much of this too. The thing i loved the most about being an owned slave was the freedom. It's hard to relay that to others though. How on earth can you feel freedom as a slave? But it's the truth. We have given ourselves to someone, it was not "taken" without our permission. That's the difference.
I unfortunately did not have a very mature Dom. He was only 28. It was my first time as a slave and i had actually not thought about bdsm before i met Him. It was up to Him to guide me and although He tried His best with what He had, His immaturity showed. The thing i wanted most, to be an adored slave, was not to be. My love was unrequited, but i still gave Him my full devotion anyway. When He was good, He was REALLY good.
But next time around, i am finding a Dom with experience and who "does it right". And i am not giving myself to someone who cannot love His slave. I think that was the biggest problem. He wasn't as devoted to me as i was to Him.
I crave being a slave and miss it very much. You really have to be careful about Dom wannabes though (i learned that one). But if you find the right guy, like you obviously have HollyBlue . . . it can be heaven.
You really said it right, i think. I feel so much of this too. The thing i loved the most about being an owned slave was the freedom. It's hard to relay that to others though. How on earth can you feel freedom as a slave? But it's the truth. We have given ourselves to someone, it was not "taken" without our permission. That's the difference.
I unfortunately did not have a very mature Dom. He was only 28. It was my first time as a slave and i had actually not thought about bdsm before i met Him. It was up to Him to guide me and although He tried His best with what He had, His immaturity showed. The thing i wanted most, to be an adored slave, was not to be. My love was unrequited, but i still gave Him my full devotion anyway. When He was good, He was REALLY good.
But next time around, i am finding a Dom with experience and who "does it right". And i am not giving myself to someone who cannot love His slave. I think that was the biggest problem. He wasn't as devoted to me as i was to Him.
I crave being a slave and miss it very much. You really have to be careful about Dom wannabes though (i learned that one). But if you find the right guy, like you obviously have HollyBlue . . . it can be heaven.
