Befriending straight men...

[Rugbypup]

I have a question for you guys...

I don't have many, if any, male friends. Never had, for many reasons I guess not least of all straight men frighten me and I've never been able to replicate the instinctual 'straight' language men use to bond. (Which boils down to sports, cars and women, lol.)

Not that I'm openly or outwardly gay, I'm a bit of a closet case I guess and though straight men ask if I'm gay after a while of knowing me, it's not their first assumption or question when they meet me. Comfortably discreet I'd call it.

Anyway, recently I seem to have befriended a couple of guys. Neither know I'm gay and I am not attracted to either of them, they are just mates and it's really nice to have male company around me.

One of them is a cool drinking buddy and I'm really grateful for his friendship. He seems really non judgemental yet I know he doesn't really like gay men and has openly slagged people off for being gay. (Not to their faces though.) I've always kept my mouth shut as I've wanted a friend and someone to treat me like an 'ordinary' guy without the 'gay' label over my head. I don't want to be the token 'gay' mate.

The other seems to kinda pick up that I'm gay and is always dropping the question or making comments like, 'that's what a gay man would say, or do'. He has a more distinct sexual predatory straight male instinct about him and when I am unable to communicate with him on that level, he gets very suspicious of me.

I've been out drinking with him a few times now and he always wants to go out and pick up women and I seem to get dragged into it. Whilst I've it's never lead anywhere with the women I've met (as I just don't know what to do with one once I've caught one) I've managed to throw off his suspicion.

The thing is, I feel really shallow and ashamed for lying, or perhaps omitting the truth, to them both for the sake of being treated like an 'ordinary' straight guy... it's a nice feeling to have platonic male companionship and I've never really had that in my life.

I've struggled to accept my sexuality for a while but now I feel comfortable with myself I feel uncomfortable with others knowing, in fact I've never told anyone for fear of the abuse I've seen forced upon others.

The first guy I know would not want to socialise with me if he knew but I am actually a little worried the second would slap me for openly lying to him. If I ever braved telling them, I would not know how to apologise for telling them upfront.

Yes, I know this makes me a coward. Not all gay men are born to champion homosexual equality and I am really enjoying having such male friendship.

My question is, how do you balance the whole wanting honest male friendship without issues of orientation inequality?

Help?

Luv, pup, x.

 

[nudeyorker]

True friendship takes time. Eventually you will find a friend that you will not need to explain who you are. True friends accept individual differences without explanations. Not all friends agree on everything in life, but you will share a sense of complicity. When you meet this friend he will not be afraid of offended by gay people so he will never bring up the subject in a negative manner.
Meanwhile it sounds like you have at least one good pal who may or may not evolve into a friend.

 

[tallhouse168]

How can you have an honest male friendship if you are lying about who you are? You don't have to be a professional gay man wearing leather and lipsyncing to Liza, but hiding who you are is only delaying the eventual out come of them finding out. Be upfront. If they are your friends they will accept you and if they don't accept you, then they weren't really your mates. It's a tough call, do it in your own time, but the sooner the better.

 

[D_CountVonBhigBohner]

Perhaps he struggles with it the same way you do. I'd come clean and tell him exactly what you wrote in this thread.

 

[TopDudeFtl]

I have to admit that I am not familiar with your situation as I've always been honest & open about my sexuality, however, I don't wave the flag & tell everyone I meet. What's interesting is that some of my oldest & best friends are straight. (One guy I met at an live show for a band we both enjoyed. He had a really nicely built Jeep as I had & we hit it off from the start. After knowing him for only about a month, I ended up quitting the job I had at the time & started working for the towing company he worked for. I made friends with his wife & kids and ended up going to North Carolina with him & his family for a weekend of trail riding in the mountains.) If & when I feel comfortable with someone, I may open up to them but it's not something that I do immediately. In conversations with non-gays, I tend to use generalizations; I talk about my "honey" or "better-half" but never mention my "partner" or "boyfriend" or use his name. I do not like to hide anything as it always makes things more difficult to explain at a later date when it all comes out in the open. If the guys you are hanging out with are truly "friend worthy", they will not have a problem with who you are. Personally, I do not think it's a good idea to keep up the facade. Either way, do what makes you feel better. Good luck.

 

[Countryguy63]

You made me think of why I don't have any real close friends. You know when you have one of those "AHA" moments? That was now.

I had been for a very long time, in the closet, but now I consider myself openly bi, meaning if someone was to ask, I would gladly tell them. I still find that I don't get close to anyone in real life (have a few good friends on the net, but that's different.

It's no longer about being ashamed of who I am, but as I was thinking this morning and reading your post, I realized that what I'm afraid of is getting close to someone and developing a deep friendship, and then having them leave when they find out about my sexuality.

I've actually had that happen with a guy and his wife. We were as close as friends could be. Their kids loved my kids, we loved each other (in a platonic way), spending holidays together, including each other in extended family gatherings, etc.

Both had told me that my sexuality was no biggy to them , they still loved me for the person I was. One day, the calls stopped, never returned my calls, and I have not seen them since. There was no situations or issues that would have caused this, other than just me, I guess.

I don't want to get close to anyone, only to experience the pain of no longer having them as friends. It's ultimately easier for me to keep my distance and just be friendly to all.

It does get lonely at times though.

It's a tough one for me also, and I hope that your friends stick by you no matter what.

 

[rbkwp]

Agree with nudeyorker


True friendship takes time. Eventually you will find a friend that you will not need to explain who you are. True friends accept individual differences without explanations. Not all friends agree on everything in life,

Has never been an IMPORTANT thing in my life to
-need to let folk know/or need to explain my sexuality..or anything.
If theyre confident to ask...well and good they will get an honest answer. and i will look them proudly in the face and defend myself if neccesary.
I am not inclined to just casually mention such to anyone or justify my existence
if it happens it happens.
Hey' Im GAY'
(reminds me of a funny/colorful scene where this guy prances down the street proclaiming to all..Im Gay' ...and they all follow him singing and chanting-Hes Gay Hes Gay')

Without being cheeky Rugby
With your new found friends i would personally welcome the challenge of a pretty direct conversation with them/him re the topic
Sort of feel i know what sort of outcome it would be .. favourable all round
geuss its the confidence i have learnt over the years in how to deal with such.

The thing is, I feel really shallow and ashamed for lying, or perhaps omitting the truth,

Rest assured i would assume a LOT of his Bravado is Kiwi Bullshit..and to me try not to feel ashamed of anything you do in life...only gets your confidence down.
Omitting a Truth is NOT a sin
Str men frighten you.... geeee i am more scared of some of the fiery Gays that frequent K Rd'
One other thing...i possibly have more str than gay friends.some of those strs ..seemingly have ditched me/or more honestly they have gone there own way..BUT in saying that..i know full well that ever meeting them on the street..a guaranteed hug for a lost mate would be a Guarantee
(probably only because i am a str acting gay--? whatever that is) haha
So all is not lost Rugby.

Keep well and build the confidence up if you can Rugby.
Work on it
I am older than you and have been thru NZs early years of Homophobia and Racism..so have a little knowledge on the matter

BEST of Luck
enz

 

[SR_Blarney_Frank]

I happen to be straight but never meshed well with the sports-watching, high-fiving, chest-bumping crowd. I'm also not comfortable with men I've just met telling me stories of their sexual exploits or listening to fantasies about what they'd do with that woman sitting across the bar. In a nutshell many guys - straight or otherwise - are insecure about their masculinity and end up devolving into cliche rituals as a result.

With all that said, there are plenty of straight guys who aren't chest thumpers and would gladly be your friend regardless of your sexuality. Once you start representing yourself openly, I imagine you'll run across plenty of them. To the extent you try to conform to the stereotype of a straight guy, you'll keep associating with stereotypical straight guys.

 

[Torque8]

I feel much the same way as stevenvegas. Having been a college jock and currently devoting a lot of my free time to bodybuilding, I really don't pick my friends on the basis of their sexual preferences. Basically, I don't fit into a box or stereotype; am obsessed with body worship and both cock and iron pumping, tho I've never sucked another guys cock or let him fuck me. Two of my workout buddies at the gyms where I workout have come out to me. Does it matter? HELL, NO! I respect them and vice versa...the suggestion that we get together for sex has never entered the equation. Sex isn't what our friendship is based on. Both would probably be surprized as hell to know that secretly I lust after buffed male physiques despite my preference, at least 90 to 95 % of the time, for women. Being here at lpsg and the fact that I'm into cock pumping besides being an exhibitionist would probably also come as a big shock to them and my other friends.

 

[BIGBULL29]

You made me think of why I don't have any real close friends. You know when you have one of those "AHA" moments? That was now.

I had been for a very long time, in the closet, but now I consider myself openly bi, meaning if someone was to ask, I would gladly tell them. I still find that I don't get close to anyone in real life (have a few good friends on the net, but that's different.

It's no longer about being ashamed of who I am, but as I was thinking this morning and reading your post, I realized that what I'm afraid of is getting close to someone and developing a deep friendship, and then having them leave when they find out about my sexuality.

I've actually had that happen with a guy and his wife. We were as close as friends could be. Their kids loved my kids, we loved each other (in a platonic way), spending holidays together, including each other in extended family gatherings, etc.

Both had told me that my sexuality was no biggy to them , they still loved me for the person I was. One day, the calls stopped, never returned my calls, and I have not seen them since. There was no situations or issues that would have caused this, other than just me, I guess.

I don't want to get close to anyone, only to experience the pain of no longer having them as friends. It's ultimately easier for me to keep my distance and just be friendly to all.

It does get lonely at times though.

It's a tough one for me also, and I hope that your friends stick by you no matter what.

Beautiful post! I love your honesty, buddy. For any happiness to bloom in life, we first must be honest with ourselves.

I happen to be straight but never meshed well with the sports-watching, high-fiving, chest-bumping crowd. I'm also not comfortable with men I've just met telling me stories of their sexual exploits or listening to fantasies about what they'd do with that woman sitting across the bar. In a nutshell many guys - straight or otherwise - are insecure about their masculinity and end up devolving into cliche rituals as a result.

Absolutely! I never fit in either with straight men like that (a good majority are like that, though). Great point: you don't have to be gay to not feel that you fit in with typical heterosexual men.

My advice to Rugbypup: enjoy your pal, but remember that he is not a "real" friend until he knows and accepts who you really are. Remember that he is just a "buddy" for now. And perhaps your friendship will blossom where you'll be able to tell him you're gay without too much awkwardness and fear. That'd be fantastic! But over time that may never happen, and should then divulging your true sexuality to him still make you feel just as uncomfortable as it did when you first befriended him, maybe it's high time to ditch him as pal.

Best of luck, buddy!


This is a wonderful thread, by the way!

 

[Pye]

Wow-- this thread hits home

 

[closetbi]

Eh, you gotta have straight friends, man. Without revealing my sexuality I often make fun of people for being so damned homophobic. Just be yourself and they'll catch on. Worst possible thing that can happen is that they ask, and you feel threatened. In this case you can just say you're straight. Who the hell are they to say otherwise?

Take the time you need to befriend them, and come out when you don't think it's such a big deal, and trust me it won't be. I've seen lots of friends bash the shit out of gays and gay lifestyle and then on a more serious note admit that they have no problem with homosexuals and are in fact friends with quite a few.

 

[Pye]

I wouldn't feel comfortable about lying

Eh, you gotta have straight friends, man. Without revealing my sexuality I often make fun of people for being so damned homophobic. Just be yourself and they'll catch on. Worst possible thing that can happen is that they ask, and you feel threatened. In this case you can just say you're straight. Who the hell are they to say otherwise?

Take the time you need to befriend them, and come out when you don't think it's such a big deal, and trust me it won't be. I've seen lots of friends bash the shit out of gays and gay lifestyle and then on a more serious note admit that they have no problem with homosexuals and are in fact friends with quite a few.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

how about this?
You do not have to apologize for anything.

Neither do you have to hide anything.

While I may have notions about the sexual orientation of the guys I know... I have never AKSED them if they were straight or not... They are my friends and that really doesn't even factor in to the equation.

As long as you do not make a 'play' for one of them, then you are not relating to them on any kind of sexual level at all and you should assume its a non-issue until otherwise notified.

Either they will be cool with it. or they wont. and either way you will be better off...
There ARE straight men out there who will not give a shit whether you are gay or not.
If neither of these fellows is one of them... then go out and find some.

But never allow yourself to feel that you should apologize for NOT answering a question they have never asked.

 

[Rugbypup]

Thanks for the replies guys, it's nice to know this is something that's crossed other peoples minds to.

 

[austin]

Wow. Like others were saying, I feel this is the best thread that I've ever read on LPSG. Well done!

 

[Pye]

Does it make us slightly dysfunctional?

 

[anglerect]

good heavens this is 2009 new zealand, tell them !
they won't mind, they know that gay men hide the facts out of shame , i bet they have other gay acquantances.
you are a nice sensitive man, your two macho male friends must be able to see how great a guy you are.they will feel no different about you once they know.the friendships will be better too with them as they will socialise with you without challenging you to screw girls and you in turn will be relaxed.I have many straight men friends ,i have never has any rejection I am 41 years old and I was in you rexact positio 10 to 15 years ago and I felt awkward keeping the truth to myself, and lying etc.
after blurting the truth and seeing only positive reactions I was so sorry i had not shared a few of my 'secrets' sooner.
if your new buddies reject you i would be amazed, and if they do, it means they have unresolved issues and are in need of therapy.
platonic female friends and gay men you do not feel attracted to are also options to explore, as are married couples either gay or straight.
I am not sure why you want straight male company specifically, maybe you tearn for acceptance and feel better when in public with macho appearing guys.
accept yourself a bit more, do not underestimate yourself or your friends, i bet they are proud to be your friend and will continue to be so.trust me on this, just tell them the truth face to face blurt it out, one of the friends already knows, the other, the first one you describe knows too, he wants to see if you stand up for gay people when he makes negative remarks,i feel the remarks are probably related to really obvious camp and effeminate guys .Open up, relax and enjoy!where in nz r u ?

 

[FuzzyKen]

Platonic friendships are not made on the basis of sexual orientation or at least should not be. I see differences in this than normal however in that the individuals in question one in particular trys to place you in sexual situations such as "pick-up-palaces".

You can be friends with an individual because of the interests you have in common and go your separate ways for interests that you do not share.

In my teenaged years I loved Las Vegas shows and was lucky enough to see such greats as the late Totie Fields, Rich Little, Liberace, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis, Frank Sinatra and the rest on stage.

I also love classical pipe organ concerts. I have friends with whom I share this interest, and others to whom classical pipe organ would seem like torture.

You have the right to share what you want and to be the best you that you can be.

If you find yourself having to be something other than 100% you, this is not really a good healthy friendship. One or more of these "mates" may or may not fit that description.

The bottom line is that as a gay man you have nothing to hide or be ashamed of. Allowing these feelings in yourself and or giving in to a deception rather than truth is not healthy for either you or for them.

I have more straight friends than gay ones and I do not advertise anything, but, I don't hide it either and feel that if they can't handle it or feel sexually threatened by my life, they have insecurity issues which I can't help.

I wish you the best. . . .

 

[pablo59]

Wow, this is a great thread. It really does bring a lot of things home.

I have a close group of 4 other guys who are all straight. I am in the closet and have not told anyone I'm gay.
When we were younger, I found it difficult to be part of the conversations sometimes when they talked about women and dates. As we are older, there is less talk of sex.

My best friend who I have known for over 20 years is staight, married, and a Dad. His son is my godson. He and I really close. He hugs me whenver we first see each other and when we part. (He lives about 2 hours away).
I am sure he knows I am gay just from my lifestyle (or lack thereof) and I know if I admited it, he wouldn't bat an eyelid. But it no longer seems relevant with so much water under the bridge now.

My advise is to tell them if you want to but if you don't, don't lie! If one of your mates wants to go on the pussy prowl, just tell him it's not your thing.
At the end of the day, a true friend couldn't give a flying fuck whether you're gay, bi or into gerbels. Unless the sexual orientation becomes an issue with the friendship (like pussy hunting), just ignore it!
Concentrate on the things you have in common as guys. As you know Kiwi males are brought up on drinking beer, the All Blacks (don't mention the test!) and heaps of blokey things. As males we all have things in common regardless of orientation.