Befriending straight men...

[D_Percival Puddleford Pukehorn]

he aint heavy he's a slut!

 

[wallaboi]

Hey there Rugbypup. Firstly, I'd like to agree with others who have said they have enjoyed your thread. You have been very honest with thoughts and feelings, and because of that we feel certain kind of freindship, although none of us have ever met.

Because of that I'd like to offer my opinion...I'm not really qualified to offer advice! I think this thread is largely about coming out. You have found someone with whom you would like to be friends, and he also seems to enjoy your company. I think at some stage you are going to have to overcome your fear of rejection, and express yourself to some of those people close to you with the same honesty as you have in this forum. You will not believe the sense relief and feeling of elation when you disclose your secret, and receive a positive response. Similarly, rejection can (at first) be traumatic, but as they say you find out who your real friends are, and you will be stronger for facing your fears (cliches...but true :s)

It's probably stupid to speculate about your friend, but from what you have said, I don't really think he is a homophobe. You have great charm, sense of humour and endearing personality and I think this is why he enjoys your company. Find time soon, to expose your vulnerablility and I believe the long term outcome will always be positive.

I look forward to reading futher posts in this thread.

 

[Rugbypup]

Rugby, we've spoken before, so don't take this negatively...

Is it possible he sees you as "one of the girls"? I don't mean this in a bad way, hear me out.

Sometimes, people make assumptions. I know a few straight guys who are comfortable with their sexuality and have gay friends. When they are around each other, they are touchy flirty with them. They don't see them as a threat or anything, just another person.

What I'm wondering is, maybe he's realized/decided that you are gay, cares for you as a friend, and is flirting because he has classified you as gay, rather than a man, and is trying to make you feel good aorund him, while flirting like he would, a woman.

That was a really bad example, it's true, but what I'm trying to say is:
Maybe he considers your sexuality to cancel out your male nature, and as a result, he sees you as a non-sexual being (similar to guys who pal around with women because they are tomboyish).

Don't be offended, I'm probably way off.

I see no reason to be offended nor take negativity from your words, actually, they're quite insightful.

I've been dubious about having male straight friends as I've been bitten in the past... and to be frank, finding a male gay friend who isn't as camp as a pink fish in a boa doing the YMCA is as rare as rocking horse shite.

I guess I've felt, having hidden my sexuality for so long, that I've missed male company... and I have, it was really nice to have that equality that I've lacked from men, for the short time it's lasted at least, lol.

I never wanted or knowingly did anything to make sexuality, straight or gay, part of the equation of this new found friendship. I just don't know how it's even become such a bloody point. Why is there no escaping it!

I don't think I can be open and honest about it all with him. I think he knows, he just seems to have that straight instinct that's sex driven... they just know. If I confide in him, sadly I risk that confidence being abused in the name of 'good humour' or worse, 'what's good for me' to a great deal of other people, professionally and socially, that I can not afford to have penalise me.

As friends we know a few overtly gay men and he seems hell bent on comparing me to one of them who is so offensive camp and effeminate I take real offence and bite every time he does it, sigh. There is much about our friendship I like... but I think in all honestly that should be, that I liked. He got a bit pissy with me the other night and called me a 'closed book' which really annoyed me because other than sexuality, I'd be really open and honest and friendly towards him.

Why, in the name of all that holy, would a straight man be so fucking preoccupied with another man's sexuality? It can only be that stereotypical straight men make their friendship on the women they'd like to fuck or have fucked. Thinking with much more than your cock 80% of the time seems to be an instant 'gay' beacon.

Whatever his thought and feelings, I think I have two courses of action open to me, considering I do not want my sexuality being this man's business.

One, I actively put some distance between us, I hope this would give him time to spend with other mates leaving me to the privacy I enjoy. I take responsibility for probably being a little submissive to him and that of all his mates, being so give him a sense of dominance and leading. There may be a question of he asked to spend time with me, because I'm the only one about and that he knows usually whatever he wants to do, goes.

Two, next time he dose the whole 'I've had a bit to drink, so it's fine for me to take the piss out of your ambivalent sexuality and criticise you' bit, is to bite back and bite hard and just fucking walk off and leave him, where ever, whatever, there and then, 'friendship' be dammed.

I should never have been so naive as to think there would not be consequences to such a friendship.

Thank you all for your comments, your insights as always have helped me understand.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

second, why do you call him str8??

One percenter at best. Less than you! :mischievous:

 

[joeweekend]

OK, it's starting to feel wrong.

Out drinking with my straight mate and he started really pressuring me about my sexuality. One minute he'd be really forceful about the issue and the next, carry on with conversations as normal. One minute he's chatting away as mates do, the next he's introducing me to bar maids as gay, then punching me.

I found myself telling lie after lie, or rather big half truths, to get him to stop but he still kept on being aggressive about the matter. I was really firm with him as well, clearly saying no to the ways he kind of bullies me a little... especially over drinking. He feels free to be really critical of me as well, so I let go of my restraint and told him a few things about himself I don't think he realised I was able to perceive. He didn't like being criticised in the same manner and stopped.

I don't think it went well as evening as out go.

I don't understand.

By the end of the evening, I just wanted to distance myself from him because I felt really belittled, embarrassed and ashamed. I obviously don't cut it as a real straight man, though, I'm finding that in itself oddly cathartic.

Anyway, I wanted distance to let things settle and bang, he's taking me out again.

Why, if he's so preoccupied with my sexuality, is he being so friendly towards me?

Bloody men! It's really difficult being mates with you lot, lol.

Pup, in my view, his fondling the back of your neck was a power move. By doing it, he forced you either submit, or push him away. He wants to dominate you - which I guess comes as no surprise. Your failure to slap him away was submission & he won.

Now, what he might consciously or unconsciously want to do with that dominance is another matter.

Ask yourself this, Pup: how would you feel about letting him sexually dominate you? Instead of scratching your neck, he scratches the back of your throat. Or your prostate. How would you feel about that?

 

[D_Lawhitton Megabutt]

hey pup - just read your posts and wanted to give u my two cents. a lot of what you describe your mate sounds very familier cos im like that too. im very tactile and aggresive with my close mates and visa versa. it isnt underlying homosexuality but just me being as hyper as a puppy on E and have the testosterone levels of 5 men. id say chill a bit and maybe step back from reading so much into it and enjoy the friendship.

that being said, if you feel uncomfortable speak up immediately. once i hooked up with my mate, jumped over a table and tackled him to the ground, hugging and punching and ended up sitting on his lap with my arm around him nuzzling/headbanging him. he's done the same to me and we both know we're messing around. but another mate was aghast and seemed to think it was the same as me putting his cock in my anus.

also...it means a lot (A LOT) of gay men come after me and misinterpret what i do or say or end up pretending to be mates just so they can get closer which i hate cos friendships are very important to me. im still not sure if straights and gays can be mates because ive been burned each time it happens. treat them like straight men and they develop 'feelings', say the wrong thing and they act like pissy girls. (not all gays! dont flame me! just the ones i know!)

dont ever dumb yourself down for anyone tho dude. never.

 

[D_Lawhitton Megabutt]

also NZ rocks, i used to live in Orewa and miss it loads

 

[Rugbypup]

Pup, in my view, his fondling the back of your neck was a power move. By doing it, he forced you either submit, or push him away. He wants to dominate you - which I guess comes as no surprise. Your failure to slap him away was submission & he won.

Now, what he might consciously or unconsciously want to do with that dominance is another matter.

Ask yourself this, Pup: how would you feel about letting him sexually dominate you? Instead of scratching your neck, he scratches the back of your throat. Or your prostate. How would you feel about that?

I find his instinctual straight masculinity attractive, that much is true.

I am not physically attracted to him thought.

I would like his friendship, but I don't want him as a boyfriend.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

dont ever dumb yourself down for anyone tho dude. never.

QFT! Keep your personality.

I would like his friendship, but I don't want him as a boyfriend.

Friendship is still emotional intimacy on some level or other. Some guys are not very capable of this no matter who they are with - friends, women, wives, even their own children.

 

[invisibleman]

Friendship is still emotional intimacy on some level or other. Some guys are not very capable of this no matter who they are with - friends, women, wives, even their own children.

Oh, ain't THAT the fucking truth!!! You should get a Nobel Peace Prize for that revelation.

 

[col1974]

QFT! Keep your personality.Friendship is still emotional intimacy on some level or other. Some guys are not very capable of this no matter who they are with - friends, women, wives, even their own children.

I'll second that. My dad, and my ex for example are emotionally deficient and this has had a very significant effect on their relationships.

Often combined with a bizarre egocentrism, which from my experience leads to an astonishingly resilient arrogance.

 

[Rugbypup]

I can't pretend that I wasn't deeply excited by what he did, panicked to fuck but I did enjoy it.

What can I say, I like to be dominated I guess, and that feels most nature with a strong, loyal, fair, rough but affectionate straight man type... how fucked up is that?

No wonder I'm single.

While I found that aspect of him attractive, I do not feel the same was about him. It's confusing, he makes me feel submissive and passive at times, even seems to enjoy the power play roles of our friendship but I do not want it to become more than a friendship.

Most gay guys seem to fall head over heels for straight men, which I do understand... just not this one, lol.

I just want a friend... minus the abuse.

 

[ActionBuddy]

I'm so glad I have friends of all stripes... Straght, gay, bi and the "what-evers"...

Keeps life interesting!

 

[Rugbypup]

The other night, while out a drunk guy comes up to me and my friend thinking we were door men, bouncers, as soon as we told him we weren't, this guy instantly seem to think we were a couple.

I just laughed it off but my mate flat out denied it, fair enough, but then pointed at me and said, but he's gay though and laughed.

I was really taken back, more so as the drunk turned out to be a big, slightly red neck, armed forces guy.

I was terrified! Not matter what I said to laugh it off or divert attention from myself, this guy was just point of fact that I was gay! I don't think my mate would have let him hurt me if he took offence was wanted to be a cock, but that's not the point, my friend clearly just dropped me in a potentially dangerous situation.

As it happened, this guy started telling us how a member of his family was gay and proceeded to scruff me up and make a fuss of me whenever he saw me over the night. Such behaviour is difficult to dismiss when you have pup tendencies, lol.

So, although I tried to ignore, even sort of deny my sexuality, I also kept quiet as not to draw more attention to myself as well. No saying I was or wasn't gay, means I spent a big chunk of the night as a gay guy amongst rough arse straight men.

So being gay seems OK to other straight men, only if you are with a straight guy that knows you and other straight men identify was as straight, and that when they're pissed up, they can rough you about only to kiss your shaved head to make it better?

He's kinda treating me like the 'gay' friend that i didn't want to be treated like, sigh. So much for male friendship.

Bloody straight men are confusing the shit out of me!

 

[wallaboi]

The other night, while out a drunk guy comes up to me and my friend thinking we were door men, bouncers, as soon as we told him we weren't, this guy instantly seem to think we were a couple.

I just laughed it off but my mate flat out denied it, fair enough, but then pointed at me and said, but he's gay though and laughed.

I was really taken back, more so as the drunk turned out to be a big, slightly red neck, armed forces guy.

I was terrified! Not matter what I said to laugh it off or divert attention from myself, this guy was just point of fact that I was gay! I don't think my mate would have let him hurt me if he took offence was wanted to be a cock, but that's not the point, my friend clearly just dropped me in a potentially dangerous situation.

As it happened, this guy started telling us how a member of his family was gay and proceeded to scruff me up and make a fuss of me whenever he saw me over the night. Such behaviour is difficult to dismiss when you have pup tendencies, lol.

So, although I tried to ignore, even sort of deny my sexuality, I also kept quiet as not to draw more attention to myself as well. No saying I was or wasn't gay, means I spent a big chunk of the night as a gay guy amongst rough arse straight men.

So being gay seems OK to other straight men, only if you are with a straight guy that knows you and other straight men identify was as straight, and that when they're pissed up, they can rough you about only to kiss your shaved head to make it better?

He's kinda treating me like the 'gay' friend that i didn't want to be treated like, sigh. So much for male friendship.

Bloody straight men are confusing the shit out of me!

Geez Rugby...sounds like you're confusing the shit out of these straight guys!!! Fess up and tell them you're gay. Let them treat you like the gay mate, coz that's the nearest you're ever gonna come to being part of the gang. Denying your sexuality to them or keeping it ambiguous, they will always be suspicious and will continue to test you.

I am not one to push others to come out before they are ready, but man you're getting on, and the world will not end if you do. Even better you will make some great friends. I know this sounds glib, and easier said than done, but I do relate to your experience. You can have friendships with straight guys.

 

[Pye]

Geez Rugby...sounds like you're confusing the shit out of these straight guys!!! Fess up and tell them you're gay. Let them treat you like the gay mate, coz that's the nearest you're ever gonna come to being part of the gang. Denying your sexuality to them or keeping it ambiguous, they will always be suspicious and will continue to test you.

I am not one to push others to come out before they are ready, but man you're getting on, and the world will not end if you do. Even better you will make some great friends. I know this sounds glib, and easier said than done, but I do relate to your experience. You can have friendships with straight guys.

I have to agree to this. At this point, you're being treated like the "gay" guy and you're uncomfortable with it because you aren't able to say that you ARE gay...your friend seems to be accepting...time to be honest about it. It might be a good point in the friendship that you can tell your friend that you aren't comfortable with him "outting" you to people and make it an assumption that he knows you are gay but you aren't comfortable with HIM telling people.

 

[drac]

Rugbypup, first off, it isnt friendship if one party is working soooo hard to have a friendship. Secondly if you arent yourself then it is a friendship under false pretenses, do think it is anything different. Third, and reading your post above, get some balls, no offense but if your buddy is gonna laugh when you are drunk and point you out as "but he's the gay guy" you need to automatically come back with "oh I am the gay guy just cause i let you suck my dick every night" or something like that, get em back and do it quick, think about this stuff if you wanna hang with these guys. Trust me, they will appreciate it if you can keep bringing it. Dont be a puss, either that or get new friends. Seriously you could probably do a lot better anyway. The best way could be finding straight friends through your girlfriends. Hints: Just dont talk like a girl or wave your hand around, and make sure you dress with baggie clothes, and forget what your hair looks like.

 

[Sardonic]

Very interesting thread and a situation which I've dealt with a lot. I grew up in the country, spent some time in the army and competing in sports, so most of my social life has been with straight men of the 'blokey' variety. My views, based on long experience:

- most straight guys who value your friendship won't give a damn about your sexuality. If you're open about it. Some will take the fact that you're hiding or dissembling about it a breach of trust. So lying about being gay is infinitely worse than being gay. The only negative reactions I had when I was younger weren't over my sexuality, but over the fact that I hadn't told them...

- Your friendships with straight friends must be free of any sexual overtures or moves. I may have had sex with a few straight acquaintances, but I've never, ever had any sexual interaction with a straight friend. However, you will find a bit of horseplay, don't fight it but don't encourage it. Being an available focus for the curious or egotistical is unhealthy. I had a straight friend in the army who would flirt outrageously with me and with guys if he ever came to a gay bar with me. He didn't do it out of attraction, but a massive ego - it swelled his head to have guys fawning over him as much as it did with women. If any of the guys went too far he got defensive - I had to read him the riot act on a couple of occasions about being respectful about gay men's sexuality and not sending out the wrong signals. Luckily marriage and a family turned him into a well balanced and polite guy.

- your friend rubbing the back of your neck is not what I'd put in the category of straight male bonding, it's too overtly sensual not to carry sexual overtones. I would feel immensely uncomfortable if a straight friend started to do that. I can see it only as one of 2 things - either he's testing the water to find out whether you'll have sex with him, or he knows your gay and is trying to get you to do something or admit because he's fed up with you trying to conceal it. Remember, evading and hiding it breaches the 'man code' more than the sexuality issue itself.

- As an open gay man with straight friends, you will be treated differently. I know that my straight friends, particularly my army friends, became very protective of me after I came out. The slightest hint of me being the target of any homophobic or aggressive behaviour and they would immediately back me up as a group, even when I felt that I could deal with the situation alone. The one time some guys tried to rough me up when I went to the toilet at a sports bar, my mates bashed the crap out of the guys who roughed me up, whereas I would have preferred to have left it with the defiance I showed them.

- Don't put up with shit from your mates. They will (or should) respect you more for standing up for yourself than to meekly acccept it. I have never held back when one of my friends has acted in a way I found offensive or demeaning. I don't start a shouting match, but quietly note that I found a particular comment personally insulting - I've always received an apology and they watch their P&Qs more, at least around me. I know with some of my mates, if I had let certain things pass they probably would have lost some respect for me. Straight or gay, part of being a man is standing up for what you believe in.

- I don't think your friendship with this guy is healthy as long as you try to hide your sexuality. I sounds like he already knows, and if that is the case, you're certainly not doing yourself any favours. If he doesn't know and runs when you tell him, let him go. There are heaps of guys who just do not care if you're gay as long as you're a good bloke. My social circle is testament to that. I've come across less than a handful of homophobic guys and I don't miss their company one bit - the quality of mates I have more than makes up for the dicks out there. I'm a godfather to some of their kids, babysit for them, go shopping with their wives, shower with them at the gym, act as confidente to them and help them when they need a hand - I'm basically the same as any of their straight mates other than the fact that my partner is male.

 

[Rugbypup]

For those who may remember this story...

...well, so far...

...things have gone tits up.

I have learned a great deal about straight men but the friendship with my straight mate has gone a bit wrong and we are no longer close friends.

Much happened that confused me though, I would go as far as to say i think he might have been secretly (if not repressed) Bi and perhaps even saw me as an easy 'quick fix' is the absence of women.

He touched my neck inappropriately for a straight man, more than once. I can't even say I like him doing it as I am not attracted to him.

He became obsessed with my sexuality, the more I avoided it, joked about it, washed over it, the more obsessed he became. We had a couple of rows too, in one of which I even told him I've never known anyone obsessed with my sexuality as him... he didn't know what to say, so he just got angry... very angry.

In the end I felt confined, bullied and belittled by him every time we hung out, he was just a friend, that's all, but clearly we had gotten too close, perhaps overexposure is a better term. So after receiving a particularly shitty text, I bit back. I was polite but exact and he clearly didn't like it. We didn't speak for about a month and we are only just now meeting up once in a blue moon.

Funny thing is, I'm kinda grateful for it all, as I feel more than I was when we first became friends and I've moved on. He seems unable to be more in himself than what he was then. Frankly I got tired of having to dumb down everything I said, explaining that I didn't want to get blind pissed every night and that I really didn't fancy chasing some girls, any girl, just to fuck her.

We socialise in groups of friends, but not together anymore and I'm happy with that.

Clearly, I am not straight, thing is now... I'm a little more comfortable about it.

Strangely, I still seem unable to tell my actual closest friend that I'm gay, shit even Bi would do, as she is and it would mean little to her but by accident, I told my boss I'm bi and he was surprised but didn't give a shit.

I just slipped out, he asked a question and before I knew what was what I'd told him clear as day I was bi. I was upset for not having greater control over my thoughts and speech at the time but felt really oddly a little releaved... I actually told someone I'm bi.

Big step for me, lol.

Well... I'm not bi, I'm gay but in a very hetero masculine world that I live and work in, getting away with bi, seems... nice.

Cheers for reading...

Love, pup.

 

[D_Harry_Crax]

Most gay guys seem to fall head over heels for straight men, which I do understand... just not this one, lol.

I haven't fallen for a straight guy since I was in college, which was a long time ago. In any case, I wonder if your statement is accurate.