Being a barista, serving pregnant women

[Snakebyte]

Just because a study is new doesn't in and of itself make its data more accurate or relevant than a study that is old.

300mg is three cups of coffee. It's also the lower bound in the Sasaki study (it was >= 300 mg per day, which means the average consumption for that study is above 300 mg, but not specified. There could be women in there drinking 2000 mg of caffeine per day, there's no upper limit.

Mentioning the genotype is relevant because it was a control factor in the study results you are mentioning. Sasaki only found an impact on head circumference if controlling for one specific genotype. If not controlling for that, there was no difference.

Karaismailoglu's "low dose" was 300 mg of caffeine in 1 liter of water, of which rats drink something like 33 ml per day. That means the rats would be consuming about 10 mg of caffeine on the low-dose. Rats weigh somewhere around 0.5 pounds. So in a body weight comparison against a pregnant adult human who's going to weigh something like 170 lbs on average, that means that for body weight, the "low dose" is equivalent to a human consuming about 3400 mg of caffeine per day. How many cups of coffee is that?

These studies are published. You can go look up how they tested, what they tested, etc. If you're going to use those studies to back up a point, everything the studies said/did is relevant even if you didn't include that information in your post.

It's every woman's choice to err on the side of caution as much as she feels fit. If a woman wants to drop to 0 mg of caffiene during pregnancy, more power to her, that's great. The question here is more about how appropriate for other people to tell a woman how much caution she should exercise, particularly when there's no evidence suggesting any harm with drinking in moderation. You're cherry picking the studies you look at because they back up an assumption, but the body of evidence as a whole doesn't suggest a problem.

Pretty much every pregnant woman has a doctor and those doctors are very capable of advising their patients, and right now the advice that they are giving is that drinking it in moderation is fine. Not "Oooh, that's sorta risky, if you're an addict I guess you can drink some but you're probably gonna miscarry". They're saying, based on the evidence, that moderate consumption looks safe.

I'm not saying that pregnant women should or shouldn't drink caffeine, that's up to them. I'm saying there's no evidence out there that would warrant making this my business (or anyone else's, with exception of their ob/gyn).

I don't know if you actually want to read something into my words. All I said was that the state of research is scarce and that further research is required.
But it's a false and very dangerous assumption you just could compare the body weight of a rat and a human being in order to get an equivalent dose. Take Xylitol for instance. Toxic to rats, harmless to humans. Furthermore rats are way more resilient in general.

 

[TexanStar]

I don't know if you actually want to read something into my words. All I said was that the state of research is scarce and that further research is required.
But it's a false and very dangerous assumption you just could compare the body weight of a rat and a human being in order to get an equivalent dose. Take Xylitol for instance. Toxic to rats, harmless to humans. Furthermore rats are way more resilient in general.

You led with a statement that there's cause to be concerned. I didn't make that up, it was literally the first thing you said.

And you backed that statement up with studies such as one where rats were put on a diet where they're subsisting on water that has 10 times the caffeine per ounce as a cup of coffee, but now you're saying not to bring that up that because rat biology is too different to human biology to draw any meaningful conclusions about how the substance affects one -vs- the other :/

 

[Snakebyte]

You led with a statement that there's cause to be concerned. I didn't make that up, it was literally the first thing you said.

And you backed that statement up with studies such as one where rats were put on a diet where they're subsisting on water that has 10 times the caffeine per ounce as a cup of coffee, but now you're saying not to bring that up that because rat biology is too different to human biology to draw any meaningful conclusions about how the substance affects one -vs- the other :/

What the heck are you talking about. I literally told you more than once that further research is required after they found effects in rats and mice. And I said recent studies give reason to be concerned about possible effects. I didn't say there definitely are such. I said there possibly could be.
Anyway I feel this leads way off topic and is just hairsplitting.

 

[polesmoker]

It is none of your concern what other women do with their body. Most pregnant women have a doctor to tell them of risks to them or the fetus, they don't need coffee servers chiming in as well.

 

[Tight_N_Juicy]

It is none of your concern what other women do with their body. Most pregnant women have a doctor to tell them of risks to them or the fetus, they don't need coffee servers chiming in as well.

Did you actually read through the thread? If not I suggest you do.

I have every right to feel the way I do, and I do not dictate what these women do with their bodies. The only people I've mentioned it to, are those I have a closer relationship with and have come to know over Years of service. I have my reasons for feeling the way I do.

The same way someones religious beliefs shouldn't dictate how I live my life and what I do with my body... my discomfort in their choice doesn't matter because I understand it's Their Fucking Choice.

I think some of you really don't get why I posted this.

 

[polesmoker]

I thought you posted it to be a judgey asshole. Maybe I misunderstood due to your judgey asshole tone throughout.

 

[Tight_N_Juicy]

Apparently you did misunderstand.

You made your point, you think I'm an asshole.

If you have nothing else to add that might actually be helpful to the conversation, kindly fuck off now @polesmoker .

 

[Auggiecakes]

The worst part of my job for me personally is when pregnant women order coffee from me, and can't refuse them service. I've had several preggo-regular customers during my time at my job who would drink lattes with extra shots of espresso, and even when I ask them if it's a good idea I've gotten replies like "Oh that's an old wives tale, my baby will be fine", and honestly it straight up angers me. I can't say no. I have to just suck it up and serve her.

I very likely won't ever be able to get pregnant. If I do, I damn sure won't risk the health of my baby for the sake of getting a caffeine fix for myself.

I've worked in food service for a while and I've never mentioned my personal opinions to a client but I know what you mean. It's like looking back at mothers who smoked during the 60'sand 70's

 

[Tight_N_Juicy]

I've worked in food service for a while and I've never mentioned my personal opinions to a client but I know what you mean. It's like looking back at mothers who smoked during the 60'sand 70's

Well, @TexanStar posted some good info that made me feel much better about the whole situation... and the science is definitive on what smoking does to a fetus... so there's a pretty big difference to me. I get what you're saying though...

I still can't help but have those thoughts run through my head, because of my personal health issues that keep me from mommying up myself. At the end of it all though, I just want everyone to be OK.. including the lil-ones who ain't out here in the world with us yet.

 

[Auggiecakes]

Well, @TexanStar posted some good info that made me feel much better about the whole situation... and the science is definitive on what smoking does to a fetus... so there's a pretty big difference to me. I get what you're saying though...

I still can't help but have those thoughts run through my head, because of my personal health issues that keep me from mommying up myself. At the end of it all though, I just want everyone to be OK.. including the lil-ones who ain't out here in the world with us yet.

I get what you mean, believe me I do but it's not your place to mention it to them. in sorry that you're in a position where pregnancy might not be an option but how would you feel if someone made unsolicited comments about your life style.

 

[Tight_N_Juicy]

I get what you mean, believe me I do but it's not your place to mention it to them. in sorry that you're in a position where pregnancy might not be an option but how would you feel if someone made unsolicited comments about your life style.

Again... I have to say it one more time: I ONLY TALK ABOUT IT WITH CUSTOMERS I'VE COME TO KNOW OVER YEARS OF SERVICE. I don't belittle them when I do either, and I explain why I'm concerned. These are people who know me. I see them outside of work as well. If I don't know the person, I say nothing at all, smile, and serve them their order.

And, people do make unsolicited comments about my lifestyle. If I'm confident in my choice, their words bounce right off me. If what they say makes me question my decision, I do a lil research, and if I'm doing harm to someone I might change my actions.

Anyway, thanks for posting.

Like I said earlier, mixed bag of a thread for sure.

 

[950483]

Did you actually read through the thread? If not I suggest you do.

I have every right to feel the way I do, and I do not dictate what these women do with their bodies. The only people I've mentioned it to, are those I have a closer relationship with and have come to know over Years of service. I have my reasons for feeling the way I do.

The same way someones religious beliefs shouldn't dictate how I live my life and what I do with my body... my discomfort in their choice doesn't matter because I understand it's Their Fucking Choice.

I think some of you really don't get why I posted this.

I don't think you are being judgemental. Perhaps you have a slight lack of understanding of the whole 'being up the duff' thing though. When many women have bizarre and obsessive food cravings, often for things which are not even food, then coffee doesn't seem that big a deal. 'Until you've walked in someone else's shoes ' as they say. Many years ago, when I had my son, I craved a few of the items on the naughty list. Just normal stuff like peanuts, shellfish etc. but managed to avoid them. I really wanted to eat raw steak, and would wake in the night to gaze longingly at it in the fridge.
Hormones play into it and affect your behaviour, and so does the shock, and denial about the impending doom for some people. I once accidentally became pregnant, had a personality change, and did some really odd things, including starting smoking again, and drinking quite a lot of wine ( I don't smoke, and have never been a fan of alcohol), before realizing I was pregnant. Unfortunately, all that and the fact that I'd had x-rays, and other risk factors influenced my decision not to proceed with the pregnancy. I was really sad about the whole episode. If I got pregnant again, I'd like to do it on purpose, and do it right, so I could avoid all and any risk factors, and have an awareness about any behavioural changes or mood swings before they happened in case I became a crazy bitch again.
Lots of women naturally develop an aversion to caffeinated drinks at some point in the pregnancy, so I wouldn't worry about it too much, maybe they just haven't got to that point yet, or it could be the first coffee they've had in months, or they could have awful morning sickness and that's the only thing they can stomach.

 

[Tight_N_Juicy]

I don't think you are being judgemental. Perhaps you have a slight lack of understanding of the whole 'being up the duff' thing though. When many women have bizarre and obsessive food cravings, often for things which are not even food, then coffee doesn't seem that big a deal. 'Until you've walked in someone else's shoes ' as they say. Many years ago, when I had my son, I craved a few of the items on the naughty list. Just normal stuff like peanuts, shellfish etc. but managed to avoid them. I really wanted to eat raw steak, and would wake in the night to gaze longingly at it in the fridge.
Hormones play into it and affect your behaviour, and so does the shock, and denial about the impending doom for some people. I once accidentally became pregnant, had a personality change, and did some really odd things, including starting smoking again, and drinking quite a lot of wine ( I don't smoke, and have never been a fan of alcohol), before realizing I was pregnant. Unfortunately, all that and the fact that I'd had x-rays, and other risk factors influenced my decision not to proceed with the pregnancy. I was really sad about the whole episode. If I got pregnant again, I'd like to do it on purpose, and do it right, so I could avoid all and any risk factors, and have an awareness about any behavioural changes or mood swings before they happened in case I became a crazy bitch again.
Lots of women naturally develop an aversion to caffeinated drinks at some point in the pregnancy, so I wouldn't worry about it too much, maybe they just haven't got to that point yet, or it could be the first coffee they've had in months, or they could have awful morning sickness and that's the only thing they can stomach.

Oh, trust me I know a lot about pregnancy even though I never was (well, I was once, and lost it)


I'm not unaware of anything you're telling me about pregnancy, but I do appreciate that you took the time to post. Thank you lovely, I needed that.

ETA, just for clarification, the specific people I'm talking about are ladies who come to my coffee shop regularly enough for me to know when their last cup was, and how caffeinated it was. And, because of the light that was shed in this thread, I will likely not mention anything to anyone again, even though it still fucks with my head. Thank you all again, I needed this conversation.

 

[Dport]

The worst part of my job for me personally is when pregnant women order coffee from me, and can't refuse them service. I've had several preggo-regular customers during my time at my job who would drink lattes with extra shots of espresso, and even when I ask them if it's a good idea I've gotten replies like "Oh that's an old wives tale, my baby will be fine", and honestly it straight up angers me. I can't say no. I have to just suck it up and serve her.

I very likely won't ever be able to get pregnant. If I do, I damn sure won't risk the health of my baby for the sake of getting a caffeine fix for myself.

You'd make a horrible meth dealer.

 

[Tight_N_Juicy]

You'd make a horrible meth dealer.

That's the truest thing that's been posted so far. Fuck tweekers.

 

[Dport]

I never fuck tweekers... MRSA sores and what not.

 

[palakaorion]

My boundary for involvement in stranger's or casual friends' choices is imminent harm. If what they are about to do is likely to cause imminent harm to them or someone else, then and only then do I move to the next phase. I still might not take action, especially if my action would have little positive effect or could potentially make it worse.

The boundary for involvement in good friends' choices is eventual harm from a pattern of unwise choices.

It's how I'd want others to treat me. So that's how I treat them.

 

[950483]

Oh, trust me I know a lot about pregnancy even though I never was (well, I was once, and lost it)


I'm not unaware of anything you're telling me about pregnancy, but I do appreciate that you took the time to post. Thank you lovely, I needed that.

ETA, just for clarification, the specific people I'm talking about are ladies who come to my coffee shop regularly enough for me to know when their last cup was, and how caffeinated it was. And, because of the light that was shed in this thread, I will likely not mention anything to anyone again, even though it still fucks with my head. Thank you all again, I needed this conversation.

I'm genuinely sorry that I made that assumption , it was really stupid of me, I apologise.

 

[Tight_N_Juicy]

I'm genuinely sorry that I made that assumption , it was really stupid of me, I apologise.

It's Ok, No sad face!! You're too bad-ass to be sad. Only smiles now

 

[Wave85]

It's Ok, No sad face!! You're too bad-ass to be sad. Only smiles now

Yes you are both badass @swoon and @Tight_N_Juicy!