Being Flamboyant

[closetbi]

OK I want to know why a lot of gay guys are so damn flamboyant. I find a lot of them to be cute, but as soon as they open their mouths and start talking like girls I feel like they are disrespecting what it is to be a man. I know this might offend a lot of people, and that's why I'm asking anonymously on a forum. When I was younger, from time to time, I would do something a little gay, and my dad would tell me not do it, because it makes you look weak.

I'm not going to say I'm super macho, because I'm not at all, I don't care if people think I act a little gay, but I don't throw my hands everywhere or ask for hugs or say things like "awwww that's so cute" or "whyyyyyyyyy", you know? Like a girl does. I feel like being a male endows you with a certain responsibility and that is to be strong and let it be apparent that are, even if you're not. I don't feel like being gay means you are allowed to give up that responsibility.

Comments? Please don't flame, I want to have a real discussion about this.

 

[flame boy]

I think this is a discussion that's been brought up a fair few times on the site. I must state, that as someone who some (all?) may consider flamboyant, it's not something I consciously chose to do for anyones benefit. I am who I am, just like you are who you are. It's not a case that I can turn it off, sure there are times when you see people acting up and playing to stereotype, but most of the time its just that person being who they are. I wouldn't ever pretend to be something I'm not -- so me walking around acting like a tough guy would be, quite frankly, about as ridiculous as it would be hysterically funny - people shouldn't have to change so that others can stay the same.

No one can change your perception of what you feel is a weakness in a man, but I wouldn't be so brash as to declare these people any less male due to their actions. They are who they are, and as long as it doesn't physically hurt anyone, who are we to judge?

 

[Industrialsize]

Some of the Strongest men I know are drag Queens.

 

[flame boy]

Some of the Strongest men I know are drag Queens.

Ditto!

And not that I am implying anything about the original poster, nor am I accusing him of anything -- but I have found in my experience the people who seem to detest flamboyance the most are those who themselves struggle with their sexuality and their role within society. Someone with more psychological knowledge than I could possibly claim it's a jealousy, as the flamboyant queens are proud of who they are and embrace it fully.

Once again, not saying this is anything to do with the OP.

 

[lookingforhung]

Most of these guys take big cock and f'in bravley.

If you can take big cock as most of these flamboyant's can..you are good in my books.

 

[B_theOtherJJ]

Would you consider the possibilty that that is the person they ARE, and they are not just actting that way for peoples amusement ? Some guys are Fem, some are macho, some are psycho, some are liars. thats just WHO they ARE.....If something or someone offends your sensibilities, just choose not to associate with them. You have that choice.

 

[Shandforthe Shroomstick]

I'm not flamboyant, something may slip now and then, but I don't think it takes away from the fact they're a guy. You're simply reinforcing yet another stereotype. That every male should be tall and strong and be that hardcore defender. As stated above, some over exaggerate the flaming quality, most it naturally comes to. Personally, it doesn't bother me unless it's EXTREMELY over the top. But yeah. I dont see it as weakness, I see it as a person being who they are. To me, it sounds like you were forced back into a mold you were trying to come out of and that's why you feel that way. Gotta love when parents do that lol.

*Not flaming.

 

[closetbi]

I don't think anyone is faking it, I just know people who were once in the closet and acted like regular guys, slowly start acting less like a man, and more like a girl as they came out. I'm Hispanic and I know gays of both types, and I know that many of my (usually hispanic) friends would point out when I say something that sounds effeminate. I'm not talking about the nohomo game or anything like that, but I've had friends tell me, yo, man up. And honestly, I have manned up. I feel like acting effeminate sends the message that you aren't very independent and you almost need someone to take care of you. I know it's very far from the truth but I can't help but get that message when a twink walks in and says "ooo mawwwwy gawwdd!"

 

[Shandforthe Shroomstick]

I feel like acting effeminate sends the message that you aren't very independent and you almost need someone to take care of you. I know it's very far from the truth but I can't help but get that message when a twink walks in and says "ooo mawwwwy gawwdd!"

Okay, now the flaming is going to start lol. You stepped in it big time. IMO, this is an affront to not online effeminate men, but also women. As you made your point that they act like women. You're saying neither are capable of providing for themselves. I'm pretty sure each and every one of them would bitch slap you to the moon now, after a statement like that.

People are free to express themselves in any way they choose to. If you feel that it threatens your manliness, then that is your problemo. Time to man up enough to deal with it. Just because you were forced to be the stereotypical straight male, doesn't mean everyone else has to follow suit.

*End Flaming.

 

[Industrialsize]

" and acted like regular guys, slowly start acting less like a man, and more like a girl as they came out."

This is where you lose me. You seem to have a very narrow definition of what "acting like a man" means.

 

[closetbi]

@Jerkingoffnow - I did not say that either are unable to provide for themselves, trust me I have a sister who has provided for herself from the age of 16 to the present day and she is now 36. I believe the traditional standard is that the "man" of the house provides for his family. The man sweeps the woman off her feet and carries her. Not so much because either of them NEED it, but each of them by nature loves to play these roles. I don't feel it threatens my manliness, I simply want to know when did the change occur? Were we all not brought up like this? (These are real questions, not me flaming or complaining. I'm new to the gay community and I'm struggling, I'll admit.) My parents taught me to take care of and respect women, you know, give a girl your jacket if she's cold, not to complain about things. Pretty much my parents taught me, that if I'm pissed off, it's better to be an asshole than a bitch.

@Industrialsize - I'm talking about voice pitch going higher, saying things like "eww", talking shit about someone instead of confronting them, flipping hands...I mean I can go on but a video would do more justice to the point.

 

[mitchymo]

I have to be honest that i do not like the flamboyantly gay in terms of sexual attraction, i like my guys to be more macho but not in any way butch. I read an article way back when i was 16 when i was working at an organisation for councilling that held seminars every so often and one of their seminars was about homosexuality and how it was basically natural but that there were two types of gay people that split 90% normal and 10% special. It could perhaps be the case that some gay men are different to the rest because of more psychological reasons and that most normal gay men are a little more camp than most men but that was their discussion not mine.
I don't understand what the attraction is towards very effeminate gay guys from other guys that are attracted to the masculine, it seems illogical to me but there you go.

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

I must be very naive, I wasn't aware that there was a set of rules about what makes a man a man and a woman a woman...

I'm also very offended by all this talk of how they are acting like girls, I don't act as described by the OP, does that mean I'm less of a woman too?

The only thing that makes any man or woman lesser, is not being true to themselves.

I have been arguing this point for years. "Effeminate" men are not more feminine; they are more flamboyant. There is a noticeable difference. I've seen plenty of demonstrative gay men, but I've rarely seen a man who behaves like a female.

Men who think and act like females are transsexuals... not gay men.

 

[invisibleman]

OK I want to know why a lot of gay guys are so damn flamboyant. I find a lot of them to be cute, but as soon as they open their mouths and start talking like girls I feel like they are disrespecting what it is to be a man. I know this might offend a lot of people, and that's why I'm asking anonymously on a forum. When I was younger, from time to time, I would do something a little gay, and my dad would tell me not do it, because it makes you look weak.

I'm not going to say I'm super macho, because I'm not at all, I don't care if people think I act a little gay, but I don't throw my hands everywhere or ask for hugs or say things like "awwww that's so cute" or "whyyyyyyyyy", you know? Like a girl does.

I feel like being a male endows you with a certain responsibility and that is to be strong and let it be apparent that are, even if you're not. I don't feel like being gay means you are allowed to give up that responsibility.

Comments? Please don't flame, I want to have a real discussion about this.

Appearances are deceiving though. You can be the manliest man and still have the pussiest salt of the earth. There is nothing worse than a fake insincere man. People are flamboyant for a reason. And it isn't to piss off men. Men are emotional and thinking espirits like women. But due to some genital and hormonal differences...there are expectations of social behavior. Crossroads: Should we follow a path designed by others as right? Should we follow the path of what our hearts dictate? Are we good enough as ourselves to bring what is necessary to the table of our problems?

I happen to like a bit of showmanship. Some flamboyance. Can you imagine the possibilities...the freedoms...of not being super men? Not always being the hard-line nikka or thug on the block?

You don't have to satiate blood lusts or have rites of passages. You don't have to kill or inflict violence. A man has many emotions...and they aren't limited to fucking women/men and whupping up on some nikka's ass.

Every man will not pass a rite of passage designed by men. But that doesn't mean that they aren't man enough. They weren't able to pass the task at hand.

 

[441873]

It's called being a queen. LEARN IT AND LEARN IT WELL!!!!! *double snaps!*

 

[closetbi]

Hey don't be insulted by my ignorance, if I wouldn't have asked I wouldn't have an answer right? Shit it's hard for me to let go of my biases, I'm trying. Thanks.

 

[D_fbvuytf7tufr]

Gender and biological sex are two very different things.

Biological sex is what a person is based on the biology of their bodies, be it male, female, or something else. (Based on recent research, this would probably also apply to sexuality as well.)

Gender is something very different, and that seems to be what is causing the dispute. Gender is not bounded by sex, it is bounded by culture.

From the time people are babies they are exploring the world and trying to imitate the world that they see around them. Some people imitate the more feminine and some imitate the more masculine. Gender is not a personal choice (at least not mostly). Gender is all about performing the role that one's subconscious, formed from this exploratory phase, tells him/her to perform.

At least that is one take on the topic of gender that has been written by Judith Butler and has been taken quite seriously by the academic community, to the point that her book (Gender Trouble) has actually been used to influence laws regarding things like this in certain countries.

This argument also goes the other way: people are conditioned to see certain people in certain gender roles. So, closetbi, you have a subconscious reaction every time you see a man who is acting like he is, in your mind, not supposed to act. You see him as the Other, and therefore have a psychological and inexplicable disgust/hated for this person. It is not your fault, but you do have to overcome your biases...

 

[FuzzyKen]

The gay and lesbian comminities are extremely diverse and represent an entire range of people of literally all descriptions.

The problem is that many who could best be described as "flamboyant" become the "poster children" of those who are out to deny civil or even basic rights to individuals of alternative sexual orientations. A percentage of these individuals have really done harm to the community to which they belong. It is not intentional, it is just the way things sometimes work out.

One of the best examples that comes to mind took place at the old Gay and Lesbian Community Services Center in Hollywood, California many years ago.

Whenever the news media needed a spokesperson they sought out a fellow by the name of Morris Kight. Morris was a good man, but he was extremely effeminate in his actions and body language and was often seen with long fingernails and other equivalent physical attributes when interviewed on television. The Religious Right fed off of Morris Kight and used him as a "poster child" for everything wrong with the then more politically active Los Angeles Gay Community.

The Community Services Center decided enough was enough. Again, Morris was a great man, he was just not a good spokesperson and did not represent any views in reality other than those of Morris Kight. They appointed a man by the name of Steve Schulte to an official spokespersons position and it was Steve that the Media was supposed to interview. Steve Schulte was a male centerfold and was extremely masculine in all mannerisms and speech patterns. It was Steve Schulte who represented the official position of the Center. When the media discovered what had taken place, they deliberately skirted around Schulte to again find Morris Kight because Morris made ratings. His flamboyancy hurt the community, but it gave ratings to the media.

I do not believe that anybody sets out to do damage but a flamboyant attitude or extreme use of flamboyant body language, speech patterns or gestures at the wrong time can not only hurt that individual, it has potential to cause hurt or pain to others.

There is the old ten percent rule. It is said that about 10% of the World Population is gay. It is also said that about 10% of that 10% are what would best be described as "flamboyant" or extremely "femme" for lack of better terms.

I really cannot speak for right or wrong, I cannot criticize my fellow man on this issue, I know I do not, as a general rule find extremely flamboyant indiviuals at all sexually attractive, but that is a personal opinion.

Where I become again uncomfortable is again the ability of a few individuals described in this manner to play the "flamer" role at absolutely the wrong time.

 

[442325]

It's just what's popular. Most gay guys are basically women, and statistics show that women follow trends more. Flaming gay people just act flamboyant because it's what's "in" right now.

 

[442304]

The gay and lesbian comminities are extremely diverse and represent an entire range of people of literally all descriptions.

The problem is that many who could best be described as "flamboyant" become the "poster children" of those who are out to deny civil or even basic rights to individuals of alternative sexual orientations. A percentage of these individuals have really done harm to the community to which they belong. It is not intentional, it is just the way things sometimes work out.

One of the best examples that comes to mind took place at the old Gay and Lesbian Community Services Center in Hollywood, California many years ago.

Whenever the news media needed a spokesperson they sought out a fellow by the name of Morris Kight. Morris was a good man, but he was extremely effeminate in his actions and body language and was often seen with long fingernails and other equivalent physical attributes when interviewed on television. The Religious Right fed off of Morris Kight and used him as a "poster child" for everything wrong with the then more politically active Los Angeles Gay Community.

The Community Services Center decided enough was enough. Again, Morris was a great man, he was just not a good spokesperson and did not represent any views in reality other than those of Morris Kight. They appointed a man by the name of Steve Schulte to an official spokespersons position and it was Steve that the Media was supposed to interview. Steve Schulte was a male centerfold and was extremely masculine in all mannerisms and speech patterns. It was Steve Schulte who represented the official position of the Center. When the media discovered what had taken place, they deliberately skirted around Schulte to again find Morris Kight because Morris made ratings. His flamboyancy hurt the community, but it gave ratings to the media.

I do not believe that anybody sets out to do damage but a flamboyant attitude or extreme use of flamboyant body language, speech patterns or gestures at the wrong time can not only hurt that individual, it has potential to cause hurt or pain to others.

There is the old ten percent rule. It is said that about 10% of the World Population is gay. It is also said that about 10% of that 10% are what would best be described as "flamboyant" or extremely "femme" for lack of better terms.

I really cannot speak for right or wrong, I cannot criticize my fellow man on this issue, I know I do not, as a general rule find extremely flamboyant indiviuals at all sexually attractive, but that is a personal opinion.

Where I become again uncomfortable is again the ability of a few individuals described in this manner to play the "flamer" role at absolutely the wrong time.

What gay and lesbian community? Nevermind that lots of Gay and Lesbian people do not care about Bisexual and Trans people and pretend that Bi and Trans people are rare or do not exist. Yes lots of our queer brothers and sisters hate Bisexual and Trans people not surprising. There is no such thing as a GLBT community or culture at all. What people think of as being a real GLBT community and GLBT culture is really just people being reckless, vulgar, mindless, irresponsible, being massive consumers, massive conformity, bad politics, and living in a ghetto. Look at GLBT Pride parades they are nothing but Consumer driven events and are pointless nowadays and fueled by booze and just show Heterosexual people and society the bad parts about being GLBT. We need to grow as human beings and not define ourselves and validate ourselves with the trappings of a trash culture that has only existed for a generation or so. Voluntary self-confinement to a cultural ghetto is even worse than being forced into a concentration camp by the homophobes because it is freely chosen and self-limiting. Have the backbone to think for yourself and to talk back to the GLBT/gay culture cops when you don't "fit in" (god help anyone who does want to fit in). Forget about being "GLBT". Love who you choose - and don't worry if you are "living the GLBT lifestyle" or not. Quite frankly, it isn't worth worrying about, defending, or investing in. If anything, it can kill you. Openly criticize those who claim to speak for us (usually because all opposition has been shouted down). In summary: live your life - not some life designed for you by the gay/GLBT culture or gay/GLBT community. It is all nothing but a strait jacket.