Being gay and bisexual -- easier today than ever?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_henry miller, Oct 24, 2009.

  1. B_henry miller

    B_henry miller New Member

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    I had thought that it's easier today than ever to be gay or bisexual. But a mentor of mine, a really smart and liberal guy, told me today that people like to say that people are more accepting today, but in reality people just "tolerate" more. I suppose there's a difference between tolerance and acceptance.
     
  2. boerkie

    boerkie New Member

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    a wise man, that mentor of yours.

    for if you scratch the tolerance veneer off, the rejection and hatred towards the issue seem even higher due to being masked for so long
     
  3. Brick7

    Brick7 Active Member

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    I'm an optimist (or at least I hope I am) so I'd say tolerance can lead to acceptance. I'd consider it a first step in the right direction.
     
  4. B_henry miller

    B_henry miller New Member

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    I think the gay marriage debate has brought it on more. I think more gay rights may intensify homophobia, just as Barack Obama being president has brought out more racism in people.
     
  5. MercyfulFate

    MercyfulFate New Member

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    Well tolerance is more "I'll deal with you even though I don't like you" and acceptance, depending how it's used can be good or bad.

    The word can be condescending even, implying there's something that needs to be "accepted". Like saying "Oh we consider you normal now, we accept you".
     
  6. FuzzyKen

    FuzzyKen New Member

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    Acceptance, tolerance and the like are attitudes that develop over time. What is sad is that a person having something explained to them over time begins to accept change. That same person having the same issue crammed down their throat and having it beat over their head becomes less tolerant and often blames not the media or those out to bring about change, they blame those individuals who are coming to the front to point out a problem or to ask for equality. This is the main reason that those playing homophobic and conservative ajendas always use a cram it down the throat negative approach. If they were honest and did not distort things their homophobic ultra conservate approach would lose because people would accept education.

    It is certainly easier in 2009 to be of an alternate orientation than it was in 1969. But the battle is far from over. Few today realize the price that has been paid over the years by many of alternative sexual orientations for the victories won so far. Today, young gay and bisexual people do not vote. Their turn out's at polling places is as a rule dismal when compared of those conservatives who want to obliterate them.

    Acceptance is regional and is different in one geographic area than another. People in a small town in the South may be less accepting than those in Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco or Seattle of the same issue.

    We have come a long way, but we have miles to go before we sleep.......
     
  7. cruztbone

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    It has never been better to be gay in California's central coast. i am openly gay in my classroom, my neighborhood, my gym (24 hr fitness santa cruz) and my car. I dont get hassled by anybody. Even my Mormon coworkers accept the fact that i will marry and we celebrate gay pride month in our classroom evey June. Now, thanks to change in CA state law, we will celebrate Harvey Milk day may 22.
    Its really good NOT to live in a red state; rainbow states are better.
     
  8. Principessa

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    Difference

    I never thought of it like that, but you are right.:cool:


    Ditto, young black people. :mad:

    Acceptance is regional and is different in one geographic area than another. People in a small town in the South may be less accepting than those in Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco or Seattle of the same issue.

    So true, and it will be an arduous and uphill journey.:frown1:

     
  9. Bbucko

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    Young people, left to their own devices, rarely vote. Overall, this is not a terrible thing, because they rarely inform themselves enough to make smart choices. I didn't start voting until I was in my 30s, because until then there weren't any real choices to be had (for me).

    On topic: it's really not any easier today than it was 32 years ago when I first came out, and in many ways it's much more of a minefield than it ever was. Just because it's not cool to hate on the fags to the same degree that it was doesn't mean that we've turned any corners toward a more inclusive society as a whole.

    Contrary to whatever lurid expectations of someone who wasn't alive then, the 1970s and early 80s were not a cellpool of intolerance and bigotry: it was actually high summer for a kind of live-and-let-live libertarianism that stopped being fashionable around the time of the second Reagan inaugural, which I refer to as "the cold, gray dawn of Reagan's Morning in America".

    Despite all the PC morphing of language from "lifestyle" to "preference" to "orientation", the meanings behind the words haven't caught up with rhetoric for most people, especially those born before 1960 or who live more than 50 miles from a seacoast (with obvious and commendable exceptions). Social conservativism both as a concept and as a political movement was either poorly understood or the realm of pockets of bigotry one knew well to avoid. Today it's considered an acceptable alternative to Republicanism and social issues are used as litmus tests to discern who is liberal and who's the "real conservative".

    The fact that gay men and lesbians can marry their partners in MA, CT, VT and IA (far from the ocean, to be sure) should blind anyone to the other fact that marriage equality is unconstitutional in 40 states, a development deemed necessary only in the last dozen-or-so years. Nor should anyone forget that gays and lesbians are still witch-hunted out of the military to the detriment of national security at a time when we're fighting two wars, or that discrimination in housing and employment is still perfectly legal throughout most of the US.

    Life for a teenager today who is trying to come to grips with his sexual identity is, if anything, more challenging today than it was when I did it.
     
  10. B_Enough_for_Me

    B_Enough_for_Me New Member

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    1) Disapproval of a homosexual lifestyle doesn't equate to homophobia.

    2) Tolerance, acceptance, whatever, it doesn't matter if people still don't want to participate. If they agree to treat homo's equal then there is no problem. People don't need to run through the streets celebrating your choices. Equality is all that is required.

    3) Today is by far the best time for homosexuals; in the United States anyway (you know, the global capital of intolerance and hate).
     
  11. midlifebear

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    Having lived, voted, marched, and mourned Harvey Milk and Mayor Mascone in 1978 I'd like to think that being "out" and "about" would be much easier for teens and young adults today. But I doubt it. There's always some clueless redneck or general bigot raised by the same who ends up gay bashing -- and leaving kids like Shepherd -- to hang on a barb wire fence and die. And the Anita Bryants, et al, of my era are replaced by Dr. Laura's and mormons in Ewetaw with enough money they can donate to causes like passing Proposition 8, even though they don' live in California.

    As the poster noted from Santa Cruz, he feels secure. But I'd hasten to warn him not to turn his back. When is the last time he walked hand in hand with his significant other or openly kissed the same in public?

    Nope, I'd say things are more out in the open, but just as intolerant (in the USA at least) as usual. The police in large cities no longer bust gay bars for the enjoyment of bashing gays like they used to. Trust me. They would if they could.
     
  12. Rowan Ravenseed

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    I don't know what things are like in the states as i don't live there but here in Australia we still have a long way to go...... just recently our government support has made changes to accept same sex couples as defacto according to the law thinking that this was a large step in gay right lol but from what ive seen it only means that now same sex couples can be penalised in the same way as oppisite sex couples regarding thier government entitlements.

    People think that becuase there are more openly gay men and women it means gay right must be moving forward..... verry few people actually stop to think what equal rights means.....

    Equal right for gay people means that we should have the right to walk hand in hand with our partner without fear of being hurt or accused of rubbing our sexuality in peoples faces..... The way heterosexual couples do

    Equal right means that we should share the same rights on our long term partners will, or the same priviledges a same sex defacto couple would share

    Equal rights mean we should be able to talk about our sexual partners and prowess the same way heterosexual men seem to feel the need to without being critiscised

    Equal rights mean we should share the right to openly speak about our familys and our children without being condomed to hell or told that our sexuality might badly influence our children

    Equal rights mean that everything a hetersexual person takes for granted about thier life.... we shouldnt have to fight for it should be gratas
     
  13. B_Enough_for_Me

    B_Enough_for_Me New Member

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    Just FYI, you are talking about equality, not equal rights. The things you described are not rights, they are social norms. Society is "stopping" you, not the government. Holding hands isn't in any Constitution anywhere.
     
  14. B_Enough_for_Me

    B_Enough_for_Me New Member

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    I like how the gay community latched on to Shepard. Whether or not it was a hate crime is, and always will be, in dispute. Of course, one of the killers, McKinney, was bisexual and both the killers denied killing him because he was gay. But, hey, whatever. Truth is always subjected to public demands.

    Side note: my brothers went to school with Shepard.
     
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