Ben carson's tall tales

Fuzzy_

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"Tall tales" is being generous. He seems to be flat-out lying about much of his past.

So far, Carson has claimed that:
  • He stabbed a guy.
  • He threw a big rock at a guy's face.
  • He attacked somebody with a baseball bat.
  • He attacked somebody with a hammer.

Carson's problem is that there is no evidence whatsoever of his stories of violence. The people who have talked about young Carson said that his stories didn't fit his character and never saw any violence. He hasn't given one name of the victims, nor has anyone else. No victims have surfaced and there are no police reports for any of these assaults.

Not only that, his tall tales of violence is continuing with his latest claim that he was recently held up at Popeye's. There are no witnesses and no police report of this hold up ever occurring.

Why would Carson make all of these claims about his youthful violence? Fuzzy believes that it supports his narrative that he worked his way up from the very bottom. This "anyone can succeed" argument allows him to rail against entitlements and social programs -- a pillar of his platform.

Unfortunately, many news stories about this topic shows images of youths, so Fuzzy can only provide this flimsy link: https://goo.gl/Qsi5Ke
 
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Fuzzy_

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Just a few hours after posting the OP, Fuzzy found the following article about how Carson's inspirational story about his West Point scholarship is a flat-out lie.

Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship

The academy has occupied a central place in Carson’s tale for years. According to a story told in Carson’s book, “Gifted Hands,” the then-17 year old was introduced in 1969 to Gen. William Westmoreland, who had just ended his command of U.S. forces in Vietnam, and the two dined together. That meeting, according to Carson’s telling, was followed by a “full scholarship” to the military academy.

West Point, however, has no record of Carson applying, much less being extended admission.​
 

phonehome

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From what I see so far most of his "supporters" say that even if all this stuff is not true AKA "he is lying" they do not even care.

They just like the "story"

I have thought for a while that right wingers have gotten so used to being lied to for so long, from "Iraq is behind 9-11" which to this day over half of them still believe to all the WMD related arguments to everything related to the president, birthplace, religion number of executive orders all the "scandals, IRS, Ben Ghazi and on and on most of the stuff involving the Clinton's, what Republicans are going to do if only they get, the house the senate and on and on that now they practically demand that they be lied to rather than hear a truth that does not fit the view of the world they have.
 

keenobserver

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"Tall tales" is being generous. He seems to be flat-out lying about much of his past.

So far, Carson has claimed that:
  • He stabbed a guy.
  • He threw a big rock at a guy's face.
  • He attacked somebody with a baseball bat.
  • He attacked somebody with a hammer.

Carson's problem is that there is no evidence whatsoever of his stories of violence. The people who have talked about young Carson said that his stories didn't fit his character and never saw any violence. He hasn't given one name of the victims, nor has anyone else. No victims have surfaced and there are no police reports for any of these assaults.

Not only that, his tall tales of violence is continuing with his latest claim that he was recently held up at Popeye's. There are no witnesses and no police report of this hold up ever occurring.

Why would Carson make all of these claims about his youthful violence? Fuzzy believes that it supports his narrative that he worked his way up from the very bottom. This "anyone can succeed" argument allows him to rail against entitlements and social programs -- a pillar of his platform.

Unfortunately, many news stories about this topic shows images of youths, so Fuzzy can only provide this flimsy link: https://goo.gl/Qsi5Ke

There are some aspects of these issues that are telling in more subtle ways. As to the issues of his youth and violence he has claimed to have been involved in, it is within the realm of possible that the incidents were never reported and were unknown to many of his friends at the time they occurred. I had "good" friends and "bad" friends growing up. The good ones would have been stunned at some of my actions with the bad ones. It was two separate realities. I'm not saying his stories are accurate, or defending him per se, but it is to me possible. Given the area and circumstances he grew up in, it is credible to be that he would have been exposed to some violent types and have a lot of frustration and anger as a child that could place him in those situations. If the stories are not true at all - I can think that perhaps they became real to him as a way of pushing back white being a minority in an overwhelmingly white profession when he was starting out. I thinking of perhaps a guy who allowed stereotypes to be added to his image to impress peers - just guessing at this point.

The Popeye's story is interesting on a couple of points. First did it happen? I don't know how reliable paper records or even digital copies of thirty plus year police reports are coming from Baltimore. I never hear Carson say he was interviewed as a witness at the time, although one would expect he was or should have been. Did he leave before the cops arrived? He was a doctor on a lunch break. Did the cop who did arrive not take a statement for whatever reason? I have no idea. As to the truth of the story - I'll give him a pass on this one, there is too much that would be hard to verify. The point that made the story stick out for me was that I heard it AFTER his statements on standing up to shooters, like the ones happening in movie theatres, and colleges. He advocated confronting the gunman, even unarmed with the idea that the gunman could not kill everyone and would be overpowered. We an argue that too. But his larger point seemed to me that mass shootings happen because people (unarmed people) are sheep and allow them. That in and of itself was telling, but then it comes out almost at the same time that he himself directed a gunman to a cashier during a robbery rather than initiate the beat down he expects others to perform in similar circumstances. To me, the focus should be in the inconsistent view of his own personal call to action - be the hero, be the victim.

West Point. The service academies are hard to get into, and the application process is arduous and difficult. My father went to the USNA in Annapolis. My mother, as a teacher had numerous students apply to and graduate from all the US service academies. That said, if a student is recruited for athletic reasons or other reasons, exceptions can be made to jump line. The applicant would still have to qualify in all other ways, but would not need the requisite "appointment" to get in. It is not unusual. I doubt the schools keep records of people who were recruited but did not wish to attend. If Westmoreland made the offer over a lunch I doubt that there would be a record anywhere - least of all the academy. Did the offer or the luncheon even occur? That would be the question.

If Carson has been puffing his resume - like Trump puffing his billions, or Brian Williams / Bill O'Reilly puffing theirs, to be it would be a serious issue of character, but in all honesty would it affect my vote if I were inclined to vote for Carson anyway?

No, it would not. I voted for Bill Clinton twice, knowing full well he lied often about personal issues as well as political ones. Still, I liked what I hoped his policies would be if elected. I picked him over H.W. Bush who was a credible war hero, and was far more QUALIFIED to be president than any man since - well anyone.

I voted for Clinton even after DOMA - which I hated, because I knew that Dems would be out of office for ten years on that issue alone. It showed a lack of character on his part and mine. That is politics.

At the end of it all, you can be pure of heart or you can advance part of your agenda. I don't like it, but that is where the world is. Given that, I understand why Carson's supporters don't care that he is not always telling the plain simple truth.
 

b.c.

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As I've noted in the other Carson thread, the fact that people like Carson and Trump are at the top of the GOP polls whereas GOP candidates who make more SENSE (the term "sense" here being a VARIABLE, defined only by comparison to the more ludicrous positions within the party) are at the bottom - is more of an indictment of the mindset, mentality, and INTELLIGENCE of their SUPPORTERS, than anything else.

But then again, maybe they PREFER idiocy and long for the days of Dubya.

Frankly, it comes as absolutely NO surprise that a constituency whose "news" sources spoon feed distortions, lies, and propaganda on an hourly basis (the SAME sorts, by the way, who are quick to condemn the so-called "liberal media") would be so openly receptive to WHATEVER nonsense devoid of substance, logic, OR reasoning that comes from Carson's (or Trump's) mouth. The crazier, the more ridiculous it is, the more they seem to eat it up.

The problem being not so much WHAT they say, but the fact that NEITHER Carson nor Trump seem to have any CLUE as to what they SHOULDN'T say. They have NO FILTER. Which from the standpoint of a world leader and someone seeking the office of the Presidency, seems to ME a QUITE serious flaw.

Couple that with what, on many issues, is rather EXTREMIST ideology, and the implications are troubling.


And just in case we STILL don't know how clueless this guy REALLY is:

Ben Carson cluelessly releases an ad with rap music to appeal to black voters
 
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I think conservative voters may just push his numbers higher now. It would seem they love getting lied to. When every policy can be proven as wrong and 100% ineffective and every election cycle they pick up more seats the conclusion is obvious. All Carson has to do is whisper the magic words 'liberal media' and all is good.
 
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Fuzzy_

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where on the record does he ever say he applied much less went to West Point Academy.

Carson wrote it in his memoir. Doh!

second is it because he's black? or because he's conservative that you don't like him?

He's just a liar. it's a pretty simple concept. This is about character, not race or party affiliation.
 
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Fuzzy_

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The hits keep coming.

A boastful Ben Carson wrote about how he was the only student of 150 to honestly write an exam. Carson's problem is, the course didn't exist.

Ben Carson’s Past Faces Deeper Questions

In his 1990 autobiography, “Gifted Hands,” Mr. Carson writes of a Yale psychology professor who told Mr. Carson, then a junior, and the other students in the class—identified by Mr. Carson as Perceptions 301—that their final exam papers had “inadvertently burned,” requiring all 150 students to retake it. The new exam, Mr. Carson recalled in the book, was much tougher. All the students but Mr. Carson walked out.

“The professor came toward me. With her was a photographer for the Yale Daily News who paused and snapped my picture,” Mr. Carson wrote. “ ‘A hoax,’ the teacher said. ‘We wanted to see who was the most honest student in the class.’ ” Mr. Carson wrote that the professor handed him a $10 bill.

No photo identifying Mr. Carson as a student ever ran, according to the Yale Daily News archives, and no stories from that era mention a class called Perceptions 301. Yale Librarian Claryn Spies said Friday there was no psychology course by that name or class number during any of Mr. Carson’s years at Yale.​

This is also the guy who said that he'd stand up against a mass shooter while he was shooting. Have you heard about the time Carson stopped an armed robbery? Yeah, he said that.

Ben Ghazi

Not sure who he is, but the Republicans seem to love him.
 
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keenobserver

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okay to things first. where on the record does he ever say he applied much less went to West Point Academy. second is it because he's black? or because he's conservative that you don't like him?

He claimed in his autobiography he was offered a "full scholarship" to West Point. CNN contacted West Point and they said they had no record of any offers to Dr. Carson, or that he ever applied. They also noted everyone attends West Point on full scholarship. Late Friday, Carson clarified that he never applied to West Point, and stated that he should have been more clear on that point. CNN has raised the issue on a number of points Carson has claimed about his youth, both in speeches, writings and other public comments. Their point is there is no one who recalls the events he has spoken about.

I don't see race as an issue on this, and as I noted above, to me it isn't really an issue beyond the usual apple polishing most politicos do. I would not vote for Carson because nothing he has campaigned on makes sense to me, but I think he is a really decent, good person who can rightfully be proud of his life to date and the great things he has done for people. I don't believe President of the U.S. will ever be on his list of things accomplished.
 

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The conservative media is now saying that Politico, which broke the story, is retreating on their claims and admit they lied. This is NOT TRUE. They have revised its headline but continue to state the story is true. Carson, last night on the news, said it's a matter of semantics. In other words, he thinks everyone's lying -- but him. I'd like to hear from the person who supposedly offered him entry and "a full scholarship" (nonsensical language since West Point is always free) into the school.
 
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Klingsor

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okay to things first. where on the record does he ever say he applied much less went to West Point Academy. second is it because he's black? or because he's conservative that you don't like him?

Gotta be the black thing. Liberals would never support a black president.
 

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Black doesn't have anything to do with it:
Problems to date (and there will be more, I guarantee it):
1.) he lied about West Point, hitting his mother, stabbing someone, etc.
2.) he is a homophobe and doesn't respect the reproductive rights of women
3.) the 'If only German Jews had guns, Hitler couldn't carry out the holocaust' idea is bizarre bullshit
4.) the biblical mythical Joseph built pyramids as granaries; they weren't built as monuments by Egyptian rulers--
he's more religiously crazed than Huckabee or Santorum
5.) the inane advice he gave after the Roseburg shootings that they should've rushed the shooter doesn't square with
6.) supposedly directing a robber with a gun toward the counter man at a Popeye's.

This man has undone himself; if he wins two Republican primaries (I don't count Iowa caucuses), the Republican party has shot itself in the head, foot, and groin. Personally, I think the GOP nomination engineers are laughing at this guy setting himself on fire--now they only have to find a way to make (t)Rump disappear....
 
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Black doesn't have anything to do with it:
Problems to date (and there will be more, I guarantee it):
1.) he lied about West Point, hitting his mother, stabbing someone, etc.
2.) he is a homophobe and doesn't respect the reproductive rights of women
3.) the 'If only German Jews had guns, Hitler couldn't carry out the holocaust' idea is bizarre bullshit
4.) the biblical mythical Joseph built pyramids as granaries; they weren't built as monuments by Egyptian rulers--
he's more religiously crazed than Huckabee or Santorum
5.) the inane advice he gave after the Roseburg shootings that they should've rushed the shooter doesn't square with
6.) supposedly directing a robber with a gun toward the counter man at a Popeye's.

This man has undone himself; if he wins two Republican primaries (I don't count Iowa caucuses), the Republican party has shot itself in the head, foot, and groin. Personally, I think the GOP nomination engineers are laughing at this guy setting himself on fire--now they only have to find a way to make (t)Rump disappear....

I think Johns Hopkins, the premier institution that it is, must be wondering how the hell could a nut job rise to the level he did in that organization. Is he really a nut case or just playing one on TV?
 

phonehome

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I did not go to a service academy and neither did my Father but I was in the navy for 22 years and during that time did go to career counselor school and officers programs were a part of that.

A little research I have done confirms that no matter who you are you still must get an appointment to a service academy just like everyone else and from one of the same appointing officials, Senators etc etc and that can not be "waived"

Now if you are the next David Robinson you may have academy officials greasing the skids a little for you to get that appointment but you do still need to get one.

Now in the case of a 17 year old Ben Carson what was it that would have caused who he now calls "they" to be cutting corners and greasing skids?

Nothing I know of.

It should come as no surprise to find that the Army keeps pretty good track of the whereabouts of it's 4 star generals and keeps records of that. General Westmoreland included.

I read someplace yesterday that the Army has consulted the records they have of General Westmoreland's whereabouts after he got back from Viet Nam and until he retired from the Army and they show that at no time was he anywhere close to Detroit in 1969 or any other year for that matter so the lunch where he supposedley offered BC this "full scholarship" a term he would have never used and that was the story in his book not just some un-named "they" which is what he had back pedaled to now NEVER HAPPENED.

When it comes to the thing at Popeyes, being that it is or at least was somewhat of a "regional brand" starting in New Orleans and growing through the South East before going national the first thing I wondered was if during the time frame in question Popeyes had even come to Baltimore by then?
 
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keenobserver

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I did not go to a service academy and neither did my Father but I was in the navy for 22 years and during that time did go to career counselor school and officers programs were a part of that.

A little research I have done confirms that no matter who you are you still must get an appointment to a service academy just like everyone else and from one of the same appointing officials, Senators etc etc and that can not be "waived"

Now if you are the next David Robinson you may have academy officials greasing the skids a little for you to get that appointment but you do still need to get one.

Now in the case of a 17 year old Ben Carson what was it that would have caused who he now calls "they" to be cutting corners and greasing skids?

Nothing I know of.

It should come as no surprise to find that the Army keeps pretty good track of the whereabouts of it's 4 star generals and keeps records of that. General Westmoreland included.

I read someplace yesterday that the Army has consulted the records they have of General Westmoreland's whereabouts after he got back from Viet Nam and until he retired from the Army and they show that at no time was he anywhere close to Detroit in 1969 or any other year for that matter so the lunch where he supposedley offered BC this "full scholarship" a term he would have never used and that was the story in his book not just some un-named "they" which is what he had back pedaled to now NEVER HAPPENED.

When it comes to the thing at Popeyes, being that it is or at least was somewhat of a "regional brand" starting in New Orleans and growing through the South East before going national the first thing I wondered was if during the time frame in question Popeyes had even come to Baltimore by then?

To clarify my previous post that you made reference to - my father was recruited by the USNA to play football. To that end, when he accepted their offer to play, they sent him first to the University of Michigan for a semester, and then to Yale for a full year to "prep." After that he was appointed by a Senator who was from another state, that he had neither known or contacted. It was all taken care of, all he had to do was submit his school records and pass the background investigation. So, yes he was appointed but usually appointments are from a home state Congressman or Senator, and are specifically sought by the applicant. In my father's case, and other athletes that is not quite the same process.

As to the Westmoreland story Carson originally reported, it seems to be unraveling very fast, along with quite a few others he has told.

Popeye's was in Maryland at the time Carson states he was in a robbery. They started in the state in Baltimore first and then the DC area.

Since this thread started I have to say I have read and seen more and more stories, each taking a legit issue with a large number of the stories he has used to promote himself and his books. The scale is shocking to me - not because I liked or was planning to vote for him anyway, but because it was all so unnecessary. How much will this affect him with his supporters? I don't think it will very much, but I think it will prevent him from expanding his base of support to the point he could win the nomination.
 
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