Benazir Bhutto Assassinated (yet another sad day for democracy)

D_Hairy Reed

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It's nice to see the differentiated opinions in this thread.

For me as an Indian, it is very important to see what is happening at our doorstep, with a troublesome and troubled neighbour.

Very sad to see anyone being murdered, especially one in the second generation. Even more than Benazir, her father was an able, distinguished and a well-wishing leader of the Pakistani, of a calibre the country has barely seen.

It is kind of interesting how doubt is coming on the same circle now who also assasinated Daniel Pearle equally brutally. What did Benazir and Daniel know that got them killed? The secrets behind how Pakistan got the nuclear bomb? How it traded them to Iran, North Korea and other Pariahs? How the Pakis supported the Taleban, and other muslim terrorists (also in India)?

THere is much blood on the hands of the Pakistani Intelligence Services, on this day yet again.
 

D_Gunther Snotpole

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Pakistan with our "ally" Musharaff around:

* Opposition leaders killed
* Funds and resources provided to fight al Qaida instead used to jail university professors and civil rights lawyers
* Martial law and rigged elections
* Nuclear weapons secrets given to North Korea
* al Qaida holding tough or gaining strength on Afghan border mountains

I had a more detailed reply but decided it was thankless to post it.
No one can do other than lament the points you make, SpeedoGuy.
But the country is absolutely riven by divisions and a strongman has probably been necessary.
As for the nuclear weapons secrets, you surely know that their disclosure was the doing of A.Q. Khan, the head of Pakistan's nuclear program for a quarter of a century. I haven't heard that Musharraf was involved in any way. Khan's dirty work went back at least to the mid-1990s, before Musharraf took power.
The border regions are only loosely affiliated with Pakistan. The federal government has no legitimacy among the populace there; its soldiers have not done well in attempts to assert strong federal control; and while federal law applies on the (federally-constructed) highways, once you step off those highways, you are under tribal law. (I know, I was there only a few years ago.)
Musharraf is no saint, but for a long time, I thought he was a necessary evil. (And not all that evil, given the difficulty of his circumstances.)
And we must remember that he is the fourth general to lead the country.
Democracy is a very fragile flower there.
Has been, is, and probably will be for a long time.
 

bek2335

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I personally hated the fact she returned to Pakistan. My heart told me she was walking into the line of fire. She was a true voice of freedom and advancement in the world and we all are better for her having graced the world stage, yet deprived for having lost such a bright light of democracy. I have always admired her and I take solace in the fact she was doing what her country and people needed. She died standing up for those who can't easily stand up for themselves.

Safe journey home Madame Bhutto

As for that rat Musharraf, he must be slipping. I would have thought his toadies would have pulled this off sooner. I await the next lie the Bush Administration is going to tell to "smooth over" this latest travesty of Musharraf's slimy government. May Musharraf get what he so rightly deserves, hopefully in the same way as Madame Bhutto did.


Osiris, I agree with you completely.
 

Osiris

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It's nice to see the differentiated opinions in this thread.

For me as an Indian, it is very important to see what is happening at our doorstep, with a troublesome and troubled neighbour.

Very sad to see anyone being murdered, especially one in the second generation. Even more than Benazir, her father was an able, distinguished and a well-wishing leader of the Pakistani, of a calibre the country has barely seen.

It is kind of interesting how doubt is coming on the same circle now who also assasinated Daniel Pearle equally brutally. What did Benazir and Daniel know that got them killed? The secrets behind how Pakistan got the nuclear bomb? How it traded them to Iran, North Korea and other Pariahs? How the Pakis supported the Taleban, and other muslim terrorists (also in India)?

THere is much blood on the hands of the Pakistani Intelligence Services, on this day yet again.

I had a more detailed reply but decided it was thankless to post it.
No one can do other than lament the points you make, SpeedoGuy.
But the country is absolutely riven by divisions and a strongman has probably been necessary.
As for the nuclear weapons secrets, you surely know that their disclosure was the doing of A.Q. Khan, the head of Pakistan's nuclear program for a quarter of a century. I haven't heard that Musharraf was involved in any way. Khan's dirty work went back at least to the mid-1990s, before Musharraf took power.
The border regions are only loosely affiliated with Pakistan. The federal government has no legitimacy among the populace there; its soldiers have not done well in attempts to assert strong federal control; and while federal law applies on the (federally-constructed) highways, once you step off those highways, you are under tribal law. (I know, I was there only a few years ago.)
Musharraf is no saint, but for a long time, I thought he was a necessary evil. (And not all that evil, given the difficulty of his circumstances.)
And we must remember that he is the fourth general to lead the country.
Democracy is a very fragile flower there.
Has been, is, and probably will be for a long time.

We all know that there are loads of issues and problems in Pakistan, but can we really dump it all on Musharraf? No. As much as I dislike Mr. Bush, I often find myself asking this question:

"Was it him or his cabinet?"

A leader can be good, but in running a nation, he is only as good as his cabinet. Throughout history regimes have done things in "the leader's name", only to later find out the leader had no knowledge.

As Rubi stated, Bhutto had many enemies in many circles. All we can hope for is healing and a continuation of her policies and programs of democracy.
 

jason_els

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Careful about putting her on a pedestal. She was no angel. Pakistan is like Iraq, or Yugoslavia and all the other countries cobbled together by everything other than ethnicity in that there are various parts which would gladly slaughter each other. Running the place takes a firm hand.

While she was prime minister she did nothing for the rights of women and openly supported the Taliban in Afghanistan. When she was ousted on charges of corruption she fled to Switzerland and took a lot of money with her, somewhere over one billion USD. While Pakistan did not convict her on the charges, Switzerland, after doing its own investigation, convicted her of money laundering and ordered her to pay USD 11 million to Pakistan and return a necklace which she purchased worth over USD$100,000--a slap on the wrist given how much money she appears to have taken, but a conviction nevertheless. Bhutto, like just about every other leader in the world, gave contracts as favors, demanded baksheesh in return, and made a tidy sum doing so. While she likely no more corrupt than other leaders in the region, she was no better either. Thinking of her as an Eva Peron with degrees from Oxford and Harvard may not be inaccurate.

Bhutto was seen by her opponents as a tool of the western powers. Her western education and behavior was found openly offensive by the northern Pashtun. As she no longer supported the Taliban, there was no reason for the Pashtun, who saw the Taliban as their tribal brothers, to welcome her return or so much as tolerate her either. She was seen as the political stooge of the US and the UK, ready to open Pakistan to greater cultural westernization and complete subservience to the same. This is not an inaccurate view. The US did pressure Musharraf to allow her return in the guise of allowing "greater democratic freedoms" while, in actuality, they were hoping for a peaceful transition to a Bhutto government.

Musharraf's power is balanced on the head of a pin. He's too liberal for the northern Pashtun and too conservative for the westernized southerners. He maintains power via a canny manipulation of government agencies and the lack of anyone better to take his place. He allows the Pashtun to pretty much do as they please and, even if he didn't, he couldn't force them to do anything anyway. The military of Pakistan is not powerful enough to control the northern provinces. Bhutto, it was thought, would openly invite the US and other armed forces into the region to hunt al Qaeda and Taliban hiding in the Pashtun-held Pakistani region of Waziristan; something Musharraf does not (at least overtly) allow. Many Pakistanis fear a US invasion and they may be right. The US appears to have considered the invasion of Pakistan early in the war on terror, using the threat to pressure Musharraf to cooperate with the US in hunting bin Laden, al Qaeda, and the Taliban. While Musharraf is not loved, the Pashtun see him, compared to Bhutto, as the lesser of two evils.

Pakistan is a nuclear power. They have nuclear weapons and a very dicey border with neighboring India who also possesses nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons in the hands of a Pashtun-led Taliban-style government is seen as a world security risk and all the major westernized powers realize this is the greatest potential threat to world security. Keeping Pakistan's government out of the hands of the Pashtun is essential. Bhutto taking power was seen as a way for the west to have (as much as possible) one of its own in power. Musharraf could have left in the dead of night on a plane or two with his family and retainers and slipped away to Switzerland or some other place and live happily in a villa while Bhutto was swept to power. That appears to have been the plan. The question is, did Musharraf believe that he would be allowed to get away with it? Would he be prosecuted as Bhutto was or worse, perhaps extradited to Pakistan to face charges and possible execution? The US isn't terribly kind to fallen dictators it has supported in the past. Musharraf need only have looked at the Shah, Noriega, Pinochet, and Saddam Hussein to see that former US puppets get the short end of the stick (or noose) once they were no longer of use to the US. Musharraf had no reason to believe he would be safe from Pakistani or US prosecution no matter where he went.

And that's the beauty of the assassination. Bhutto already had enemies who wanted her dead in the Pashtun. All Musharraf had to do would be to make it appear pro-Taliban/al Qaeda sympathizers assassinated her and he would be in the clear. Suicide bombing, a favored tactic of al Qaeda and other radical muslim groups, is even better since the first rule of assassination is to kill the assassin. All Musharraf needed was someone he could convince to do it, likely by threatening the lives of the assassin's family members. All fingers would point to someone other than Musharraf.

I want to see how this plays out.
 

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Oops, almost forgot the election of Jan 8, 2008. Better to act before the election, eh? Read that article.

No military ruler in Pakistan has gone gently into that good night. They have raged against the dying of the light until events have forced them to accept the inevitable and step down. General Pervez Musharraf, who formally doffed his uniform on November 28, has remained true to form. Having carefully installed a loyal successor, General Ashfaq Kiyani, as the next Chief of Army Staff, he and his political acolytes hope that they will be able to carefully rig the elections that are now scheduled for January 8, 2008.-Sumit Ganguly in Foreign Affairs
 

D_Gunther Snotpole

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While she was prime minister she did nothing for the rights of women and openly supported the Taliban in Afghanistan.

A lot of people supported the Taliban in the early going. Initially, they seemed a highly idealistic group that would end the endemic corruption in Afghanistan.
They only came into power a couple of months before Bhutto was deposed for the second time, so I doubt that she, at least as prime minister, had more reason than anyone else to sense the direction in which they would ultimately move.

When she was ousted on charges of corruption she fled to Switzerland and took a lot of money with her, somewhere over one billion USD.

Sounds inflated to me. What is your source?

Thinking of her as an Eva Peron with degrees from Oxford and Harvard may not be inaccurate.

Very funny, Jason.:smile:

Musharraf's power is balanced on the head of a pin. He's too liberal for the northern Pashtun and too conservative for the westernized southerners. He maintains power via a canny manipulation of government agencies and the lack of anyone better to take his place. He allows the Pashtun to pretty much do as they please and, even if he didn't, he couldn't force them to do anything anyway. The military of Pakistan is not powerful enough to control the northern provinces.

All very true, I think. And in part, a reason for excusing such resort to slimeball machinations as Bhutto had made in the past. Because that's how you function in the Pakistani political world.

The US isn't terribly kind to fallen dictators it has supported in the past. Musharraf need only have looked at the Shah, Noriega, Pinochet, and Saddam Hussein to see that former US puppets get the short end of the stick (or noose) once they were no longer of use to the US.

I think the Shah had little to complain about.

And that's the beauty of the assassination. Bhutto already had enemies who wanted her dead in the Pashtun. All Musharraf had to do would be to make it appear pro-Taliban/al Qaeda sympathizers assassinated her and he would be in the clear. Suicide bombing, a favored tactic of al Qaeda and other radical muslim groups, is even better since the first rule of assassination is to kill the assassin. All Musharraf needed was someone he could convince to do it, likely by threatening the lives of the assassin's family members. All fingers would point to someone other than Musharraf.

A fantasy, and possibly a true fantasy, but at this point, an unfair one.
Yes, it could have happened this way. But this scenario only works because extremist forces did want her dead. It's hard to see Musharraf's hand at work before theirs.
(Of course, you may yet be proven right, Jason, and I realize that.)
 

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Jason, an excellent analysis: thanks for sharing it.

It is good you pointed out that Bhutto didn't deserve the pedestal people will quickly want to put her on after her death (which she didn't deserve either).

Just as bad as the money she stole from her own impoverished and benighted people, people have raised accusations that she had her own brothers assisinated in mysterious circumstances while in power herself.

For the sake of regional and world peace, I hope that country comes to rest - and dedicates itself to the real issues of dealing with poverty, land rights, women's rights, that the country is plagued with, than focus on medieval Islam, murder and terrorism, the country's main exports.
 

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Here's a larger excerpt from the aforementioned article:

But the situation does not look good for Musharraf. His troubles started in March of this year when he dismissed a popular Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry. Chaudhry fell afoul of the regime when he started to ask uncomfortable questions about the whereabouts of hundreds of Pakistanis swept up by Islamabad's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate due to their alleged jihadi connections. But Musharraf failed to anticipate the depth of resentment, anger, and public discontent that his summary dismissal of the Chief Justice would generate. For weeks, lawyers in their elegant black and white suits faced police batons and tear gas to challenge Musharraf's high-handed decision. Undeterred by police repression of the legal community, the Supreme Court challenged Musharraf's decision and chose to reinstate the Chief Justice, a decision that was applauded by wide sections of the Pakistani population.

This outcome was clearly not to Musharraf's liking because Chaudhry and his colleagues were now empowered to pass judgment on Musharraf's questionable election as president in October of this year. Meanwhile, at the behest of the Bush administration, Musharraf launched extensive negotiations about a possible power-sharing arrangement with former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, whom the military had twice helped remove from office on grounds of corruption and mismanagement. Bhutto returned to the political fray in Pakistan only after Musharraf dismissed the pending corruption charges by executive fiat. Despite a vicious bomb attack on her entourage within hours of her arrival, Bhutto's deal with Musharraf appeared secure until early November.

Unfortunately for Bhutto, the newfound autonomy of the Supreme Court rekindled Musharraf's anxieties about his ability to stay in office. Accordingly, on November 3, Musharraf declared a state of emergency and dismissed Justice Chaudhry for a second time. Widespread protests ensued and Bhutto was forced, somewhat coyly, to distance herself from an increasingly beleaguered military dictator. As both domestic and external pressures to lift the state of emergency mounted, the Saudis, who have long dabbled in the internal politics of Pakistan, chose to complicate matters further. Quite abruptly, the Saudi leadership decided that former prime minister Nawaz Sharif--who had been living in exile in their country since 1999 and was summarily deported after attempting to return to Pakistan in September--should now return to Pakistan and enter the political arena. The Saudis, no doubt sensing Musharraf's increasing isolation, feared that Benazir Bhutto might win the upcoming elections despite her troubled and checkered past. Consequently, they chose to back their own horse, a more conservative, religious-minded politician, who had once been a minion of the Pakistani military establishment.

Suddenly, despite his court-packing, Musharraf now faces the possibility of a three-way election with an uncertain outcome. The crucial question is whether or not the military, which remains the country's most powerful institution, will seek to ensure Musharraf's victory in the January elections by collaborating with a newly pliant Supreme Court and Musharraf's cronies on the Election Commission. Such an outcome would simply exacerbate Pakistan's current political crisis. Musharraf's popularity, which was at its zenith after his coup in October 1999, has reached its nadir. Apart from his former colleagues at Army Headquarters, members of his rump PML-Q Party (Pakistan Muslim League-Quaid-e-Azam), and a small sliver of well-heeled Pakistanis, his support base has shrunk beyond recognition. -Foreign Affairs

This is why I advised reading the article. Ganguly points out some important reasons Musharraf had a great deal to fear from Bhutto. Never mind that the plan was to have Bhutto essentially pardon Musharraf for his entire dictatorial regime. Musharraf make your husband disappear? Convict you unjustly in a court he appointed? Too bad. Musharraf will be held harmless (possibly).

About the money laundering:

BBC


Pakistani's call her husband, "Mr. 10%," for pressuring businesses to give him 10% of their profit. He also appears to have orchestrated the murder of her brother. As the daughter of General Zia, one of Pakistan's late dictators, Bhutto is not without a history of strong-arming. Look at the words of Pakistanis themselves:

I cannot hide my disgust at this piece of reporting by Ann Curry. Benazir is no messiah for Pakistan, she is corrupt and an opportunist. It would be a good idea for Ann to ask Benazir about the Swiss corruption cases against her and why she has struck a deal with Musharraf? The Pakistani people are sick and tired of the western media's obsession with Benazir. Remember she has been Prime Minister twice - and one look at her track record will prove how incompetent she is. -Salman Ali, London, U.K

Give me a break. Really. This woman and her family have serious corruption cases pending in Pakistani and Western courts. "Is it possible the future of terrorism could hinge on whether one woman can stay alive?", you ask? Benazir is known as the "Mother of the Taliban". Her father was the first leader to pander to mullah demands to Islamize Pakistani society (prohibition on liquor, gambling), all to consolidate personal power.

Benazir's two stints as Prime Minister gave Pakistan its worst declines in Human Development indicators and an unprecedented rise in corruption at all levels in the country.

An overwhelming majority of Pakistanis would love to have a sophisticated, moderate, and well-educated politician like Benazir as their leader, but sadly, her dismal leadership record on all relevant issues makes her highly undesirable. Ann, I hope your time in Pakistan serves to refine your rather naive view of Pakistani politics.
-Shehriar, Karachi , Pakistan

About butto family these are the most dangers people on Earth. In that your report that her brother was killed every one know in Pakistan or any one has knowledge of the politic of Pakistan by banazer husband zerdary is the one who killed her brother and she was in on that with her husband. this family had raped that poor nation so many time can you ask from that lady what is her source income she have that she live in palaces in England and UAE and millions of dollars in Switzerland account and New York bank. God knows all the palliations of Pakistan the most crept people on earth and i don’t know this woman has any shame or regrets what she and her husband did to that poor country her husband is know all our the country Mr. 10% any one wants any thing all you have to pay 10% to him he will take care of it.He had kept hores in the PM house and feed them apple jam imported and so many women and childer sleep hungry what kind human are they .The day she arrived those fake tears . if she really care about that country she should bring her and her husband all the asserts back to Pakistan that give big boost to the economy but not. she is coming back what father her could not completed so she can do it .He splat the country in two give up east Pakistan she wants to finish west Pakistan so her family dream can completed. -Nasir houston Texas

I grew up in Pakistan during Benazir Bhutto's previous round as Prime Minister. I can assure you the case of corruption against her was not false. I myself witnessed the corruption living in Karachi. (I lived only a few blocks from her Karachi home)

It is true that her becoming the first female president of Pakistan was great and memorable achievement. But it does justify you holding her up as the savior of Pakistan or as its last hope for survival.

Whatever your opinion of military rulers (I am against it in principal) Presidents Musharaffs rule has been the best period in Pakistan’s short history. He has helped Pakistan achieve economic and cultural levels were never realized by Benazir Bhutto's two terms, or those of the two Prime Ministers before and after her.

Today Pakistan’s press treats its freedom as a right it has enjoyed forever, which is in fact not true. Until the current government the press was dealt with a heavy hand. We only had 3 television channels in Pakistan, now we have dozens. Newspapers have sprung up faster then spring weeds.

When it comes to Ms. Bhutto’s reason for returning it’s simple, once a person has had ultimate power and that power is taken away, he or she will do anything to have it again if only for a few precious moments.

“Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness.” GEORGE WASHINGTON, Circular to the States, May 9, 1753

I ask you to speak to the middle class families in Pakistan about the years before the previous government and you will find that my words ring true.

Yet, I can offer no other alternative besides Ms. Bhutto to President Pervez Musharraf or to the Pakistani people. (He needs her well-greased political machine) All I can do is hope that your opinion is not shared by the majority in Pakistan and that Ms. Bhutto is not allowed to regain the power she once had, for if she does it will mark a dark day in Pakistan’s history
. -Zaheer Iqbal , Atlanta GA

The above taken from MSNBC October 2007

Anecdotal evidence certainly but I think it important to recognize that Bhutto is not the messiah of democracy the western media is painting her to be.
 

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Some other voices of Pakistan on Bhutto:

It continues to amaze me that a daughter of a father hanged for murder, a sister of a brother who died of a drug overdose, a sister of a self confessed terrorist murderer whom she had killed while she was the prime minister and the wife of a known jailbird known as Mr.10&#37; has any support any where.
During her times in power the real sufferers were the pooor people, the institutions and the educated. a pariah if anything. She will sell nueclear assets to the highest bidder.
-Zafar Aziz

It is indeed surprising to see how Bhutto is deemed as a political hero. She is known to be the most currupt leader in the history of Pakistan yet now US is encouraging her arrivial to power. This basically proves the fact that US government is only interested in getting its policies operated rather than the welfare of the people of Pakistan.

It should also be noted that Musharraf's regime has also shown hipocratic attitutde, I can remember Musharraf himself stating Bhutto as a "thief," why so has he removed all the criminal injuctions against her?

The current situation in Pakistan is indeed the mistake of the Musharraf's regime for not withstanding their ground.

I personally disregard emergency rule in Pakistan, and strongly believe that currupt leaders such as Bhutto should not be allowed to be our leaders. We did have democracy before the emergency ruling and I strongly support such scenario.
-saad a butt

Both from Newsday, November 2007

While I know these are indeed anecdotal opinions, they reflect the feelings of at least some people who purport to be Pakistanis. In truth I don't know any Pakistanis who supported her either. They have told me they feel she's just like her father only with better PR.

Her husband is listed as Pakistan's second most wealthy man:

2 - Asif Ali Zardari Pakistan
Ranking: 2 Worth: &#163;900m ($1.8billion) Industry: Politics

Asif Zardari dubbed &#8220;Mr 10%&#8221; an unknown happy-go-lucky son of a small-time businessman who struck gold by marrying one of the worlds most glamorous women Former Prime Minister of Pakistan Benzair Bhutto. Taking advantage of his wife&#8217;s authority he is known to have taken kickbacks from many deals inside and outside of Pakistan. The most famous was a $4 billion deal to buy 32 Mirage jets from the French company Dassault. Documents, which include letters from Dassault executives, indicate an agreement was reached to pay a 5% &#8220;remuneration&#8221; - about $200m - to Marleton Business, a BVI company controlled by Zardari. Besides these many more kickback deals were taken with companies such as ARY Gold, Soci&#233;t&#233; G&#233;n&#233;ral de Surveillance (SGS), Cotecna, and ZPC Ursus, a Polish tractor company.

Zardari assets holding amount into hundreds of millions of dollars easily, Having 8 prime properties in the UK, of which once is the famous Rockwood Estate 365 acres in Surrey, worth &#163;4.35m has now been sold and money sent back to the Govt. of Pakistan. Also 14 multi-million dollar mansions in the USA, including owning Holiday Inn hotel Houston, Texas Owned by &#8220;Mr 10%&#8220; and Iqbal Memon and Sadar-ud-Din Hashwani.

They (Zardari and B.Bhutto) also have huge business ventures in the Middle East running into hundreds of millions if not billion mark. Mr Zardari also has huge stakes in sugar mills all over Pakistan,which include: Sakrand Sugar Mills, Nawabshah, Ansari Sugar Mills, Hyderabad, Mirza Sugar Mills, Badin, Pangrio Sugar Mills, Thatta and Bachani Sugar Mills, Sanghar. -Pakistan's Rich List of 2008 from Teeth Maestro
 

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Killers and suicide bombers will suffer the pain and the flames of hell.

Rest in peace, Mrs. Bhutto.
 

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Shame, an absolutely disgusting use of one's life when it limits a country's chance to progress.

Suicide bombers and all who endorse them, disgusts me.

RIP Bhutto
 

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When I heard this while I was getting ready.... I just stared at my mom.
We both just shook our heads.. after about 5 minutes turned off the TV.

1 step forward 10 steps back.
 

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You're being spun people! Wake Up!


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Bhutto was the west's puppet-in-waiting. This is one of those times I wish people would read my long posts. :cry: Some have, others have not.
 

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You're being spun people! Wake Up!





:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:​


Bhutto was the west's puppet-in-waiting. This is one of those times I wish people would read my long posts. :cry:​

I tried to make it clear in the OP, without being disrespectful, that Bhutto was not as pure as the driven snow. What you may be failing to see is that she represented, both to the west and much of free thinking Pakistan itself, an opportunity. An opportunity to decide, a process, taking a step towards freedom. No politician is entirely clean - hell Clinton was as dirty as they come in some ways, but he still did great things for the US and made some alright moves on the world stage too. A lot of people are paying their respects without political comment, some people are possibly disagreeing with you. I am saying that the country of Pakistan has been dealt a fierce injury with this assassination - that is the main cause of my grief. I regret a living, breathing human died as well - I feel for those that loved her. But mainly I am in mourning for the opportunity for Pakistan that she symbolised and concerned about the fear and confusion that will taint the already difficult elections as a result of today's events.
 

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I have read this entire thread with great interest. I am still a bit shocked at the turn of events- shocked but not surprised.

Orisis- I am willing to bet anything that President Musharraf had nothing to do with this. Having met they guy on atleast 4 occassions, he is a very smart and intelligent man. He fully realizes that he has the most to loose because of this- every politician and their brother in Pakistan is going to blame him for this. Even though he would have hated to ceede power to anyone, when push came to shove he would have vastly preferred to share power with Bhutto than Sharif- or anyone else for that matter. There was some meeting on the minds there, whereas with Sharif there is none. Musharraf is playing the game and doing what he has to for power and now with this tragic event, Musharraf in power is seemingly what is in everyones best interest.

I talked to the station and they have been getting reaction from Pakistanis in the Middle East regarding the assisination and the views Jason posted were spot on. Ordinary Pakistanis may be upset about this tactic but are in no way mourning the death of the actual person. Everyone seems to agree that they corruption charges against her were justified. She was nowhere near the beloved "darling of the masses" that she liked to portray herself as.

The biggest loser in all of this as usual will be Pakistan itself and that is what is remarkably sad. Like with Iraq and Afghanistan we try to impose democracy on a people where democracy does not work. It is a matter of public knowledge that any progress that Pakistan has made as a country is during periods of military rule and not democracy. I am afraid that politicans in Pakistan are going to manipulate this event to gather support for themselves- support that always comes at the expense of innocent lives in that part of the world.

Rubi, you have posted some really insightful and though provoking things in this thread.