Benazir Bhutto Assassinated (yet another sad day for democracy)

jason_els

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Oh you did MB. My comments were directed toward others. You are right in that it is a blow for Pakistani democracy even if I don't think she was necessarily democratic. She left three children and I do feel a twinge of sympathy for them.

Bhutto had powerful allies and her party has now declared an election boycott. The state department also claims that the army will remove Musharraf if the situation gets too unstable.

It's a mess.
 

jason_els

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Thanks for reporting from the region Jeff! It's interesting to see your opinion on Musharraf. Any popular opinion on who may have been responsible for the assassination?

I have read this entire thread with great interest. I am still a bit shocked at the turn of events- shocked but not surprised.

Orisis- I am willing to bet anything that President Musharraf had nothing to do with this. Having met they guy on atleast 4 occassions, he is a very smart and intelligent man. He fully realizes that he has the most to loose because of this- every politician and their brother in Pakistan is going to blame him for this. Even though he would have hated to ceede power to anyone, when push came to shove he would have vastly preferred to share power with Bhutto than Sharif- or anyone else for that matter. There was some meeting on the minds there, whereas with Sharif there is none. Musharraf is playing the game and doing what he has to for power and now with this tragic event, Musharraf in power is seemingly what is in everyones best interest.

I talked to the station and they have been getting reaction from Pakistanis in the Middle East regarding the assisination and the views Jason posted were spot on. Ordinary Pakistanis may be upset about this tactic but are in no way mourning the death of the actual person. Everyone seems to agree that they corruption charges against her were justified. She was nowhere near the beloved "darling of the masses" that she liked to portray herself as.

The biggest loser in all of this as usual will be Pakistan itself and that is what is remarkably sad. Like with Iraq and Afghanistan we try to impose democracy on a people where democracy does not work. It is a matter of public knowledge that any progress that Pakistan has made as a country is during periods of military rule and not democracy. I am afraid that politicians in Pakistan are going to manipulate this event to gather support for themselves- support that always comes at the expense of innocent lives in that part of the world.

Rubi, you have posted some really insightful and though provoking things in this thread.

Rubi's a treasure :pirate:.

Jason, I also read your comments in detail. Well researched input and information worth reading, before we sentimentalise this event.

Thanks bp. Wasn't really directed at you either. I think I made a bad sweeping generalization (are there ever any good ones?). Mea culpa.
 

jason_els

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Be careful what you wish for. Right now, Islamic Extremist sentiment is high in Pakistan.

Depends where. Ideally I see the Pashtun region of Waziristan unified with the Pashtun regions of Afghanistan to create a Waziristani state. Other parts of Afghanistan should be carved-up among among the other ethnicities. Give the Uzbeki parts to Uzbekistan, Tajik areas to Tajikistan, etc. Dissolving the country will erase its power vacuum and the creation of Waziristan will give the rest of the world someone to deal with and someone to bomb if necessary. States only deal well with other states. Creating a new state while dissolving another would give other nations someone to deal with. Right now Pakistan is divided between a largely westernized and modern south and tribal north. Both groups fear each other. Let the south keep the nukes and the technology, let the north form its own government.

Here's a map that shows the general idea of what things might look like.
 

jason_x_shaw

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It has been an awful day, i really do feel for her family and supporters, after i heard the news i was hoping they had made a mistake. She was a beautiful, intelligent women, Pakistan and the rest of the world won't see another woman with a greater passion as her for what she believed in. May you rest in peace, Miss Bhutto
 

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How utterly dispairing, how desolate we (the world) are at this latest loss of yet another one of the world's luminaries.

We've seen it too often before. The silencing of a visionary, of a beacon of hope for a people...for a world, another life snuffed out by the act of a COWARD (or cowards) determined to suck us all down into the quagmire of the banal and the status quo.

And as before, we are all left as something less than what we could have been.
 

jason_els

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Interesting that both Bush and Brown have immediately pinned responsibility of the assassination on, "extremists," even as Bhutto claimed that if she were to be assassinated, Musharraf would be the person responsible.

Bush's statement:
"The US strongly condemns this cowardly act by murderous extremists who are are trying to undermine Pakistan's democracy."

"We stand with the people of Pakistan in that struggle against the forces of terror and extremism. We urge them to honour Benazir Bhutto's memory by continuing with a democratic process."
Brown's statement (via the foreign secretary Millband):
"In targeting Benazir Bhutto extremist groups have in their sights all those committed to democratic processes in Pakistan. They cannot and must not succeed."
Yet today CNN released a letter given to CNN by a friend to be opened only in the event of her death:
"Nothing will, God willing, happen. Just wanted you to know if it does in addition to the names in my letter to Musharraf of October 16th, I would hold Musharraf responsible."​
Other nations spoke with more circumspection. It seems, as far as the allies are concerned, the assassins are already known and convicted. This despite the fact that Bhutto openly complained about the lack of security the Pakistani government gave her.

This entire episode is a fascinating example of how biased (or ignorant) media reporting colors our perspective on news events. As far as most Americans are concerned she was as good as a living statue of liberty gunned down by al Qaeda and that's precisely what the US and UK governments would like us to believe.

Pakistanis, meanwhile, are blaming Musharraf and reflecting their anger in rioting. Rawalpindi is a military garrison where the armed forces are headquartered, close to the capital of Islamabad. If Musharraf controls any city, it's Rawalpindi. Interesting to note that Pakistan's first prime minister was also assassinated in Rawalpindi in the very same park where Bhutto lost her life.
 

dalibor

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Thanks to Jason, Jeffrey and the other comments here. I've learned more reading this thread (on a forum about large penises!!!) than in watching the news for the last 2 hours.
 

dreamer20

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The other factor to this is all corruption charges were dropped against Benazir Bhutto, but what about her husband?

Musharraf may not be a smart leader, but he is not stupid. Problem is he wears his policies and corruptions like his military medals, for all to see.

The world should not kid itself. Madame Bhutto was lead back to Pakistan like a lamb to the slaughter. She went to show her strength and resolve to the people who have always supported her even though she knew it would mean her certain death. Is she a martyr? Perhaps, but right now I see her as just another sad statistic in a war on terror that isn't working and a notch in the belt of yet another tiny minded despot trying to retain power over that which he most assuredly cannot control.

Benazir Bhutto talks about reforms the PPP brought about when she was Prime Minister and the corruption charges here:

YouTube - Jaiza Exclusive Benazir Bhutto Part 1


YouTube - Jaiza Exclusive Benazir Bhutto Part 2
 

Yorkie

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I have been feeling awful about this all afternoon. Unfortunately I cant say I am surprised. She was outspoken and a female. A deadly combination. My words for this are "Remember Gandhi".
My words for any politician driving through a crowd in an open-top vehicle are "Remember JFK".
It was a suicidal thing to do in her situation,especially after the previous attack.
 

SurferGirlCA

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I heard a Pakistani journalist on NPR this afternoon saying that he, too, wasn't sure that Musharraf had any direct knowledge or involvement in the assassination, although he and his government might be implicitly involved if it's clear they ignored the security problems surrounding Bhutto's campaign.

This journalist said the first question that should be asked in politically-motivated killings like this is "who is likely to benefit?" He felt that Musharraf was actually likely to suffer in its aftermath and his hold on power would slip even more than it has in the past. Musharraf was pressured (by the U.S. and other allies) into accepting what would most likely have ended up being a power-sharing arrangement, had Bhutto's party done well in the upcoming elections, but he didn't really have any other choice. Now there's little chance for that coalition to form, as Bhutto's people never had a plan of succession within the party after her.

According to the reporter, one of the first actions the coalition government there would have taken was to join forces nationwide to try and stamp out the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, and Iran-friendly extremists trying to destabilize Pakistan. His theory was that the extremists were the ones most likely to benefit from her death (Musharraf comes under heavy fire, elections are postponed/boycotted, Bhutto's party's solidarity collapses as jockeying for power begins), so it was far more likely that one of those extremist elements was responsible.

It's for sure a sad day for Pakistan.
 

Manbap

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And now a super power country must inter the country to first investigate, and second to stabilize the country...a typical senario of the very modern history, but I might be wrong though!