Bernie

[tripod]

And then there's this:

Graphic: Donald Trump’s Terrifying Views On Nuclear Weapons

The reality is:

1). The United States has chosen to update all of our nuclear technology and develop a brand new set of tactical nuclear weapons that we can use on the "battlefield" that can nuke whole battalions. We are entering a whole new phase of nuclear armament that harkens back to the worst days of the cold war. Obama abandoned his early days of nuclear disarmament in favor for a hawkish and dangerous new nuclear policy.

2). South Korea already has a nuclear weapons program... it's an actual secret unlike Israel's "not-so-secret" program.

3). Japan's nuclear energy program can be converted OVERNIGHT to a nuclear weapons program. they have TONE of enriched weapons grade uranium they have been stockpiling.

4). You can be safe to assume that Saudi Arabia has enough technology and cash on hand for a nuclear weapons program and has been working on the scientific capability just like Japan has... nobody is inspecting Japan or Saudi Arabia so they can actually create an "offline" program that can be put "online" in a very rapid manner within a short amount of time. The inspections are on the enemies of Saudi Arabia to... nobody is actually looking or monitoring Saudi Arabia, Japan or South Korea for that matter. A nuclear weapons program has a primary need for enriched weapons grade uranium, all three of those countries either have it or have access to it.

Saudi arabia plans on having two reactors online in 2020 and another sixteen online by 2030. they are building a nuclear energy program right as we speak. They will enrich a LOT of uranium... in many ways, Trump is correct. The nuclear weaponization of Saudi Arabia, Japan and South Korea are inevitable.

The conflict between the Russia vs the USA vs China is driving this mess. NATO putting their thumb on the scale between the classic battle of the Sunni Caliphate being installed over the entire Middle East is driving it as well.

Most of this bullshit is coming from the US side... the elites in the US are driving this fiasco for wealth and power. China wants to be left alone in the South China Sea, Taiwan needs to buck up and deal with the inevitable reality and face the music...

... and the US could end the conflict with Russia today, but instead the elites are choosing war because the Pentagon has convinced them that NATO can win WWIII. The underground cities have already been built.

 

[deleted15807]

The underground cities have already been built.

Underground cities? The living will envy the dead in that case. Nuclear winter will end it all.

 

[b.c.]

@b.c. As per your conniption fits; Relax.."The Democratic and American Independent parties notified the Secretary of State that they will allow voters who did not state a political party preference to vote the presidential ballot of their parties in the upcoming June 7, 2016,..aka "modified closed primaries"

I've no idea what that has to do with anything I've written but, hey... whatever.

I just find it curious how SOME seem to have started rationalizing how a Trump presidency would be the same as a Clinton one, because when it comes to fascism, there'd be little difference between that of Hillary's or Trump's.

Or that a Trump presidency would be better, even to the point of calling Obama a racist, so to rationalize how it'd be okay to have "another" racist in the White House, because (unlike either Bush's, Reagan, or anyone else BEFORE her) Hillary is CERTAIN to start WWIII. (????????????)

And I'M the one having "conniption fits"? LOL

 

[Crimsonlurker]

The reality is:

1). The United States has chosen to update all of our nuclear technology and develop a brand new set of tactical nuclear weapons that we can use on the "battlefield" that can nuke whole battalions. We are entering a whole new phase of nuclear armament that harkens back to the worst days of the cold war. Obama abandoned his early days of nuclear disarmament in favor for a hawkish and dangerous new nuclear policy.

2). South Korea already has a nuclear weapons program... it's an actual secret unlike Israel's "not-so-secret" program.

3). Japan's nuclear energy program can be converted OVERNIGHT to a nuclear weapons program. they have TONE of enriched weapons grade uranium they have been stockpiling.

4). You can be safe to assume that Saudi Arabia has enough technology and cash on hand for a nuclear weapons program and has been working on the scientific capability just like Japan has... nobody is inspecting Japan or Saudi Arabia so they can actually create an "offline" program that can be put "online" in a very rapid manner within a short amount of time. The inspections are on the enemies of Saudi Arabia to... nobody is actually looking or monitoring Saudi Arabia, Japan or South Korea for that matter. A nuclear weapons program has a primary need for enriched weapons grade uranium, all three of those countries either have it or have access to it.

Saudi arabia plans on having two reactors online in 2020 and another sixteen online by 2030. they are building a nuclear energy program right as we speak. They will enrich a LOT of uranium... in many ways, Trump is correct. The nuclear weaponization of Saudi Arabia, Japan and South Korea are inevitable.

The conflict between the Russia vs the USA vs China is driving this mess. NATO putting their thumb on the scale between the classic battle of the Sunni Caliphate being installed over the entire Middle East is driving it as well.

Most of this bullshit is coming from the US side... the elites in the US are driving this fiasco for wealth and power. China wants to be left alone in the South China Sea, Taiwan needs to buck up and deal with the inevitable reality and face the music...

... and the US could end the conflict with Russia today, but instead the elites are choosing war because the Pentagon has convinced them that NATO can win WWIII. The underground cities have already been built.

And how exactly is bernie sanders going to fix all of what you say? I don't get too much into politics but i was under that this was a thread about bernie sanders. By the way, what are his plans for all the things you say are happening and will happen? I'm not a die hard politics follower or anything but i haven't heard him say much about any of this. Care to give some highlights?

 

[185248]

Underground cities? The living will envy the dead in that case. Nuclear winter will end it all.

What's left of the human race will become horny Morlocks hunting down fresh Eloi. That Morlock seems to have the Donald doo

 

[tripod]

Underground cities? The living will envy the dead in that case. Nuclear winter will end it all.

I think they are largely stark "bases" under military control designed to operate during a nuclear war... they are as large as cities but I don't think they were built with sustainable living in mind as their primary purpose. Their primary purpose is to protect the leadership and provide a means with which the United States could exist as an entity during and immediately after all-out nuclear war.

The sustainability of these bases is understandable classified... we can assume they are not sustainable in the event of a nuclear Winter and Spring but we cant be sure of that.

And how exactly is bernie sanders going to fix all of what you say? I don't get too much into politics but i was under that this was a thread about bernie sanders. By the way, what are his plans for all the things you say are happening and will happen? I'm not a die hard politics follower or anything but i haven't heard him say much about any of this. Care to give some highlights?

No probs, the simple answer would be deescalation on our part. Carrots for everyone with the stick being put in a museum.

1). China wants peace, we do not... to achieve peace with China, we just need to pursue peace through ceasing escalation. China will follow suit.

2). North Korea wants peace... we are still technically at war with North Korea and South Korea has been too. A definite end to the Korean War would be a good start... it's been over 60 fucking years. North korea would fall over themselves responding to a real olive branch and a treatment of North Korea that is based on mutual respect.

3). NATO can stop arming Wahhabist/Salafist militants TODAY and end our support for Saudi Arabia's Dream of a worldwide Caliphate among Muslim nations. That means making peace with Saudi Arabia's biggest enemy, Iran. Saudi Arabia would have to change their ways... and so would Qatar and Turkey.

4). Stop antagonizing Russia by continually poking the bear. Get NATO's weaponry of war off of Russia's borders and abandon our attempts at taking out their first strike nuclear capability through our supposedly defensive deterrent of peace (but actually is an offensive weapon of war) - the missile defense system in Romania.

This can all be accomplished because of our sheer military power. If we wait for the "other side" t be the bigger man, we will wait forever because WE ARE THE BIGGER MAN! NO country wants war with the United States because we have the deepest pockets. Wars are won by money and we have the most money. China and Russia are poor countries... North Korea has nothing and Iran is on it's ass as is most of the Shia populated middle East.

The only people that want war are the ones who think they can win and that's US. It's the United States that wants war... don't fucking kid yourself.

Bernie is a man of peace and I have seen nothing in his campaign that would suggest that he would continue the American policy of aggression, saber rattling and violent intervention. Could he surprise me and be more hawkish than I would expect? of course, that's always a possibility with any candidate.

Bernie has to be careful talking about peace in a bully country where the citizens don't give a shit what foreign person dies as long as the US continues it's hegemony and "winning streak". his message of peace must be carefully crafted so as not to be contrasted too much by Hillary's ridiculously violent and aggressive foreign policy. He is a total man of peace (within normal parameters).

These gestures of peace and olive branches can be small ones but just sincere enough so the other country gets the message that we are not continuing our asshole ways.

 

[Bardox]

I don't understand the constant critique from pundits and democratic leaders about Bernie staying in the race and not abdicating to Hilary. The party has been against Sanders since he was a mayor in Vermont. That's why he has always been an independent. The party didn't want him. His views were not in line with theirs. They had no use for him and he no use for them.

The difference now is that the democratic base and many independents are now inline with Sanders' views even if the party still isn't. Both Democrats and Republicans have essentially given up on the working class despite their choice of rhetoric. The "little guy" is largely ignored until buildings start burning. Bernie is where he always was. It's the rest of the country that has moved. Socialism doesn't carry the stigma it once did.

The voters have moved away from the parties and into the open arms of Sanders and Trump. The Republicans have come to accept this and are in damage control mode. The Democrats are still in scorched earth mode. By the time we get to the conventions, the super delegates may consider Hilary to be too damaged for the general. Perhaps this is Bernie's plan. Beat her up too much for the Dem's to risk hinging their national hopes on. Bernie or Bust is growing...

 

[Boobalaa]

I've no idea what that has to do with anything I've written but, hey... whatever.

I just find it curious how SOME seem to have started rationalizing how a Trump presidency would be the same as a Clinton one, because when it comes to fascism, there'd be little difference between that of Hillary's or Trump's.

Or that a Trump presidency would be better, even to the point of calling Obama a racist, so to rationalize how it'd be okay to have "another" racist in the White House, because (unlike either Bush's, Reagan, or anyone else BEFORE her) Hillary is CERTAIN to start WWIII. (????????????)

And I'M the one having "conniption fits"? LOL

You are in the ways you go after hypothetical situations about the "Bernie or Bust" movement. In CA. Any person who has marked "Undeclared" on their voter registration, may vote from whomever they please! They can even write-in any name they want.
You also get conniptions over the USA becoming Fascist.
Do you understand the relationship, the betweenness of plutocrats, oligarchs, corporations and government?
Are you in denial about Neo-liberalism, or do you not understand the connection between the two party's system and the fact that both parties currently have populists in opposition to the Status-Quo ?
Hillary represents the Status Quo! There is no longer a republican candidate in contention who represents the status quo
Depending on your favorite flavor of pundits you perfer, your infotainment will satiate your desires and exaserbate your fears.

 

[Crimsonlurker]

I think they are largely stark "bases" under military control designed to operate during a nuclear war... they are as large as cities but I don't think they were built with sustainable living in mind as their primary purpose. Their primary purpose is to protect the leadership and provide a means with which the United States could exist as an entity during and immediately after all-out nuclear war.

The sustainability of these bases is understandable classified... we can assume they are not sustainable in the event of a nuclear Winter and Spring but we cant be sure of that.



No probs, the simple answer would be deescalation on our part. Carrots for everyone with the stick being put in a museum.

1). China wants peace, we do not... to achieve peace with China, we just need to pursue peace through ceasing escalation. China will follow suit.

2). North Korea wants peace... we are still technically at war with North Korea and South Korea has been too. A definite end to the Korean War would be a good start... it's been over 60 fucking years. North korea would fall over themselves responding to a real olive branch and a treatment of North Korea that is based on mutual respect.

3). NATO can stop arming Wahhabist/Salafist militants TODAY and end our support for Saudi Arabia's Dream of a worldwide Caliphate among Muslim nations. That means making peace with Saudi Arabia's biggest enemy, Iran. Saudi Arabia would have to change their ways... and so would Qatar and Turkey.

4). Stop antagonizing Russia by continually poking the bear. Get NATO's weaponry of war off of Russia's borders and abandon our attempts at taking out their first strike nuclear capability through our supposedly defensive deterrent of peace (but actually is an offensive weapon of war) - the missile defense system in Romania.

This can all be accomplished because of our sheer military power. If we wait for the "other side" t be the bigger man, we will wait forever because WE ARE THE BIGGER MAN! NO country wants war with the United States because we have the deepest pockets. Wars are won by money and we have the most money. China and Russia are poor countries... North Korea has nothing and Iran is on it's ass as is most of the Shia populated middle East.

The only people that want war are the ones who think they can win and that's US. It's the United States that wants war... don't fucking kid yourself.

Bernie is a man of peace and I have seen nothing in his campaign that would suggest that he would continue the American policy of aggression, saber rattling and violent intervention. Could he surprise me and be more hawkish than I would expect? of course, that's always a possibility with any candidate.

Bernie has to be careful talking about peace in a bully country where the citizens don't give a shit what foreign person dies as long as the US continues it's hegemony and "winning streak". his message of peace must be carefully crafted so as not to be contrasted too much by Hillary's ridiculously violent and aggressive foreign policy. He is a total man of peace (within normal parameters).

These gestures of peace and olive branches can be small ones but just sincere enough so the other country gets the message that we are not continuing our asshole ways.

I understand what you're saying. The thing is this. Are you saying all of this or is bernie sanders saying all of this? That's what i was largely getting at. Lets say for the sake of argument i'm a possible bernie sanders supporter. Not only that but i'm a low information voter without the ability to decipher direct quotes from the opinions of a supporter. When i read everything you've written i automatically think bernie sanders completely agree's with you 100%. What happens then? Confusion right? Trust me. I get the passion. I get the urgency. I'm just curious if you think it's helping?

And i agree. It does seem like bernie sanders is about peace but not all of his supporters are. That i've seen with my own eyes when certain groups didn't seem to be voting for him. An no that sort of thing does not get forgotten because it's that sort of thing that sparks wars in the first place. Everything in moderation right. Which of course includes passion.

Oh and philosophically speaking even peace/peaceful people can accidentally start wars. My own personal thoughts though...america will probably be either going to war or be stuck in one no matter who wins the top spot. Thats because the top spot doesn't have as much power as most think it does anyway. There are a million different pieces and factors and moves that lead to war. A large precentage being exactly what you said....

Bernie has to be careful talking about peace in a bully country where the citizens don't give a shit what foreign person dies as long as the US continues it's hegemony and "winning streak".

Yeah it's the american public that constantly has a taste for war. Thats why our political systems are so fucked. And when i say the american public i mean every last one of us who can't have a civil discussion without it exploding into an emotional mud slinging contest. Not only can't most americans stay on track but most times we don't even want to for fear of the actual information we might gain. Information as in...no camp is clean. No group is angelic. And no group will ever not have deeply fucked slip up's. Period. The only thing we human beings can really do is not fuck up as much.

With that said i'll reply to the other thing so you can hopefully understand what i'm saying a little further.

 

[b.c.]

You are in the ways you go after hypothetical situations about the "Bernie or Bust" movement. In CA. Any person who has marked "Undeclared" on their voter registration, may vote from whomever they please! They can even write-in any name they want.
You also get conniptions over the USA becoming Fascist.
Do you understand the relationship, the betweenness of plutocrats, oligarchs, corporations and government?
Are you in denial about Neo-liberalism, or do you not understand the connection between the two party's system and the fact that both parties currently have populists in opposition to the Status-Quo ?
Hillary represents the Status Quo! There is no longer a republican candidate in contention who represents the status quo
Depending on your favorite flavor of pundits you perfer, your infotainment will satiate your desires and exaserbate your fears.

Yes, I do have concerns about a Trump presidency with a conservative led Congress and Supreme Court, and his recently published list of picks for the latter is only a taste of what's in store. Maybe that's a "no biggie" to you but you'll have to FORGIVE me if I choose to disagree.

As for the "Bernie movement," other than saying that I fear a bitterly contested convention might lead to no shows come election day, what "hypothetical situations" have I "gone after"? How does mere speculation on that possible outcome qualify as "conniption fits"??

 

[tripod]

Yes, I do have concerns about a Trump presidency with a conservative led Congress and Supreme Court, and his recently published list of picks for the latter is only a taste of what's in store. Maybe that's a "no biggie" to you but you'll have to FORGIVE me if I choose to disagree.

The Bernie folks who are hardcore Democrats like myself can all be counted on to vote for Hillary. The extra people Bernie brought in that wouldn't have voted otherwise cant be counted on... independents make up a large portion of that group. They have no loyalty to any party.

I'm going to bang my head against a brick wall hoping that I can convince liberals to adopt more progressive ideals and platforms within the Democratic party... a progressive take-over is going to take years so in the meantime, all we can do is preach and then preach some more. Trump's not running as an independent, he is running as the leader of the GOP... theres no fucking way I would do anything to get him elected. NC is a sort of swing state and it will most likely go for Trump, but I'll vote for hillary...

... because I see that there is snowball's chance in hell of convincing party loyalists to choose peace and that there is still time to prevent WWIII. As pessimistic as I am about DNC partisans, I still have faith that they can choose a peaceful existence with the world.

I'm probably a dumbass, but I am a romantic at heart. Trump's racism is the least of my worries about him... my worries are the unknowns and the shit that will just pop up out of nowhere... a GOP ran legislative, executive and judicial branch eaves me quaking in my boots. I can't have that.

I like making intellectual arguments around trump from time to time, but there's no way I would not vote for Hillary. The GOP cannot have a triple crown... that's just earth shatteringly scary.

We can move Hillary in an anti-war direction, it won't be easy...but WE can do it.

We can move Hillary towards a less Wall Street/IMF/World Bank friendly way of looking at the world, it won't be easy... but we can do it together if we try hard enough.

I'm not going to rah rah support Hillary but the GOP is a backwards direction for this country. 8 years of Bush set is back something fierce and Hillary has my vote, she's always had it but I'm just fucking pissed DNC partisans and Hillary-bots forced the weaker candidate on us... running Hillary against Trump is going to be soooooo hard, I think she actually can't win but I'll vote for her because I wont get a goddamn choice to vote for the stronger candidate who can actually beat trump quite easily.

 

[deleted15807]

At first it seemed Republicans were falling apart and Democrats were falling in line in a reversal now it's flipped as the Republicans warm to their carnival barker and Democrats infight.

Defiant and determined to transform the Democratic Party, Senator Bernie Sanders is opening a two-month phase of his presidential campaign aimed at inflicting a heavy blow on Hillary Clinton in California and amassing enough leverage to advance his agenda at the convention in July — or even wrest the nomination from her.

Bernie Sanders, Eyeing Convention, Willing to Harm Hillary Clinton in the Homestretch
​

Bernie incredibly is looking very bitter. One man revolutions don't really succeed.

 

[185248]

If Trump ever looked like starting any sort of nuclear problem or carrying on like an out of control twat. He would become assassination material, you guys are not averse to knocking off a prez now and then, or having a go at it anyway.

 

[tripod]

At first it seemed Republicans were falling apart and Democrats were falling in line in a reversal now it's flipped as the Republicans warm to their carnival barker and Democrats infight.

Defiant and determined to transform the Democratic Party, Senator Bernie Sanders is opening a two-month phase of his presidential campaign aimed at inflicting a heavy blow on Hillary Clinton in California and amassing enough leverage to advance his agenda at the convention in July — or even wrest the nomination from her.

Bernie Sanders, Eyeing Convention, Willing to Harm Hillary Clinton in the Homestretch
​

Bernie incredibly is looking very bitter. One man revolutions don't really succeed.

Bitter? Maybe exasperated and confounded... tired and frustrated but bitter seems a little harsh... it's really you being mean.

But that's you being you... you would rather run the weaker candidate and like to act smug by saying things like "Bernie looks increasingly bitter"... whatever man, that's just what you DO right?

You like dogging the underdog... you enjoy making fun and degrading a tired old man who is fighting for what he believes in.

in other words... a fucking bully.

for your information, the DNC has MONTHS to come together as a party... you want us to come together before the primary is over? What the fuck is wrong with you?

We'll all come together minus the independents, first time voters and people who haven't voted in a long time... they are going bye bye and won't be coming back... Hillary's message doesn't resonate with them (or anybody for that matter) and they have no loyalty to the DNC. Supreme Court nominees don't mean anything to them.

Just have a little more fucking patience... the convention will be fine ultimately, it might get a little ugly but that's Hillary's fault for running a Republican-lite platform progressives cannot get behind. We'll just be voting against Trump and that's goddamn ridiculous.

We'll also be forced into voting for the weaker candidate and that's another hard pill to swallow.

Just relax and stop fighting us so hard, we are only winning states and you should allow us that without resorting to degrading comments. You got your half percent victory, enjoy it.

 

[Boobalaa]

http://www.thenation.com/article/what-everyone-gets-wrong-about-independent-voters/

Most independents are just partisans who are turned off by partisanship.

 

[Crimsonlurker]

At first it seemed Republicans were falling apart and Democrats were falling in line in a reversal now it's flipped as the Republicans warm to their carnival barker and Democrats infight.

Defiant and determined to transform the Democratic Party, Senator Bernie Sanders is opening a two-month phase of his presidential campaign aimed at inflicting a heavy blow on Hillary Clinton in California and amassing enough leverage to advance his agenda at the convention in July — or even wrest the nomination from her.

Bernie Sanders, Eyeing Convention, Willing to Harm Hillary Clinton in the Homestretch
​

Bernie incredibly is looking very bitter. One man revolutions don't really succeed.

I don't know if that's the case. His revolution might succeed. Just not in the way he and his supporters hope. The way i see it any ammo he levies at clinton will just bounce back onto him. If he says clinton is just part of the establishment all trump has to do is say sanders is part of the liberal agenda that ripped america apart from the start. If he says she's corrupt, trump will say he's penniless and doesn't know how to manage money (per bernie's lack of media presence). If he goes after clinton saying she's been aggressive and careless with human lives, trump will just call him a pussy. And any attack from bernie about trump will pretty much fall on deaf ears at this point.

Not only that but if by some stretch of the imagination bernie does win...he won't have anybody to really rely on while in office. Meaning all of his plans turn directly to shit. Hillary might not fair any better if she actually attempts to fix anything. And if trump wins well...the revolution will most certainly not be televised. Seeing as how large parts of america would be sold over to china after we've ended up at war with at least two other countries (not counting the..."war on terror" that will never end).

So yeah i think he might just be successful in starting a revolution. Just maybe not the kind he had hoped for. Then again, those are just guesses.

 

[b.c.]

I haven't used the "ignore" function in YEARS until last night (when I FINALLY had my fill of a particular poster's s*********)

But now I'm coming to realize, could it BE?? that, (unlike the older version of "ignore") the quoted material is ALSO invisible?

 

[Boobalaa]

I don't know if that's the case. His revolution might succeed. Just not in the way he and his supporters hope. The way i see it any ammo he levies at clinton will just bounce back onto him. If he says clinton is just part of the establishment all trump has to do is say sanders is part of the liberal agenda that ripped america apart from the start. If he says she's corrupt, trump will say he's penniless and doesn't know how to manage money (per bernie's lack of media presence). If he goes after clinton saying she's been aggressive and careless with human lives, trump will just call him a pussy. And any attack from bernie about trump will pretty much fall on deaf ears at this point.

Not only that but if by some stretch of the imagination bernie does win...he won't have anybody to really rely on while in office. Meaning all of his plans turn directly to shit. Hillary might not fair any better if she actually attempts to fix anything. And if trump wins well...the revolution will most certainly not be televised. Seeing as how large parts of america would be sold over to china after we've ended up at war with at least two other countries (not counting the..."war on terror" that will never end).

So yeah i think he might just be successful in starting a revolution. Just maybe not the kind he had hoped for. Then again, those are just guesses.

Lol..seems to me, no matter what happens you will be right again, and that's all that matters, I guess, hunh?

 

[slurper_la]

Gonna go see the Bern at the SCC Fairgrounds today!!..Actually gonna go watch the crowds with the rest of the fringers ..find a nice fence to sit on, under a tree, supposed to be in the 90's again..Hope the Bern wears a hat and drinks plenty of water..
@b.c. FLASH..I already voted absentee ballot..Closed Primary in CA. I stopped being a member of the Democratic Party 42 years ago..BERNINE OR BUST baby..rock the boat...
So shut the fuck up about staying home !

What are you talking about? Only the republicans have a closed primary ballot in CA
Dems allow crossover voting, I just voted for Bernie and I'm not a democrat.

 

[distilledpunk]

I'm so glad I can't vote for American politics. Free criticism up here in my castle.