Best Part of NOT being a Sexist ASS

Smaccoms

Legendary Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Posts
2,778
Media
7
Likes
1,466
Points
583
Age
34
Location
Massachusetts (United States)
Sexuality
No Response
Thanks for sharing that with us LaFemme. I think you make a great point. The "bad guy" and the "nice guy" represent opposite ends of the same spectrum. What it comes down to is self-respect I think. If one has figured out the meaning of masculinity, sexuality, and their own self-identity outside of those categories, these images of (nice guy/bad guy) become unnecessary. Confidence and self-esteem. Woot!
 

LaFemme

Mythical Member
Staff
Moderator
Verified
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Posts
40,863
Media
2
Likes
38,885
Points
743
Location
Canada
Sexuality
90% Straight, 10% Gay
Gender
Female
Exactly. When one has a poor sense of identity (male or female) they may gravitate to the extreme ends of the spectrum where sexism exists. The 'bad boy' treats women like objects to be used and discarded; the 'nice guy' puts the woman on a pedestal and yeses her to death. Both ignore the human being. The 'good man' knows who he is and is confident in himself and allows for true intimacy. There's no room for sexism and his relationship with his partner isn't coloured by how "this is how women are".

For women, the same holds true as well. I could be the doormat/clingon, the siren/heartbreaker/ballbreaker or I could be the good woman who is secure in myself. I could give men the benefit of the doubt and not colour my opinion by thinking that all men are the same - that all men are predators, or abusers or users or all after the same thing.

I guess that's what I like about not being a sexist ass. Everybody gets a fresh start with me :biggrin:!
 

AlphaMale

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Posts
3,055
Media
35
Likes
5,477
Points
468
Location
USA
Verification
View
Sexuality
50% Straight, 50% Gay
Gender
Male
@ Nico

I've never had anything pertaining to the "nice" guy thing happen to me personally. I've just seen it happen over and over again with other people, which is why I said what I did.

I've had a few 'nice' guys accuse me of only going for 'bad' boys. The accusation occurs after I've dated the 'nice' guy for a little while and it just ends up not working out.

In my experience, sometimes 'nice' guys confuse being nice with being a doormat. I don't know about other women, but I don't want a relationship with someone who agrees with me all the time, clings to me all the time and never seems to have his own opinion. I have a big personality, and at times I felt like I had a lapdop following me around or a house boy - someone who would hold my purse, pick up the tab, drive me places and say 'yes, dear' to everything I said. It made me feel horrible about myself. He deserved better and I wanted a real partner.

I have a close friend - high maintenance woman. She always had the 'nice guy' boyfriend. She'd break up with them after a few months and then date some jerk for a few weeks, almost like a palate cleanser. Neither kind of man made her happy. Then she met a truly nice guy. Treats her like a queen. One day she's on one of her rants and he stops her. He says, 'Look - just because I agree with 90% of the time doesn't mean I agree with you all the time. I don't agree with you now. So you need to stop. I'm going for a drive and I'll be back in half an hour. Calm down. If you're not calm, I'll go for another drive and we'll keep doing this until you can talk to me rationally." When she told me this story, I thought - yup, she's going to marry this guy. And she did. Two kids later and she's married to the nicest guy in the world.

That's just my experience.

See, now the guy you mention that your friend married sounds like doormat to me (even though you don't describe him as that). Maybe not as extreme as a doormat as the other types of guys that you mention, but he's still a pushover. Because if they were arguing, and he's making the decision to leave and then come back when she makes up her mind, he's putting the ball in her court (i.e. giving her the control of the situation). That's still a, "Yes dear!" attitude.

Pretty sure if it was me, I'd have said the first part and then been like... "Look, YOU need to go for a drive and come back when you have this figured out - we'll talk about it then!" LOL :tongue: Him leaving and coming back doesn't make her accountable for her actions, it makes her actions acceptable.
 
Last edited:

LaFemme

Mythical Member
Staff
Moderator
Verified
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Posts
40,863
Media
2
Likes
38,885
Points
743
Location
Canada
Sexuality
90% Straight, 10% Gay
Gender
Female
@ Nico

I've never had anything pertaining to the "nice" guy thing happen to me personally. I've just seen it happen over and over again with other people, which is why I said what I did.



See, now the guy you mention that your friend married sounds like doormat to me (even though you don't describe him as that). Maybe not as extreme as a doormat as the other types of guys that mention, but he's still a pushover. Because if they were arguing, and he's making the decision to leave and then come back when she makes up her mind, he's putting the ball in her court (i.e. giving her the control). That's still a, "Yes dear!" attitude.

Pretty sure if it was me, I'd be like... "Look, YOU need to go for a drive and come back when you have this figured out - we'll talk about it then!" LOL :tongue:

Oh, he's no doormat. He's just not going to fight. There's no way to make her leave and go for a drive, is there? That would just start another battle. When he did that, it just left her standing there sputtering and stunned. A person can only control themselves - no one else. You cannot make someone else leave, you cannot make someone else stop talking, you cannot make someone else do anything. You can only control your own actions.

As for giving her "control", that's just what he avoided doing. In a power struggle, one person has to let go. There is no 'winning' in relationships. Relationships aren't games. So you let go and come at it from another angle so you can discuss it rationally.
 

redz_rule

Sexy Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Posts
2,221
Media
0
Likes
30
Points
73
Sexuality
No Response
Oh, he's no doormat. He's just not going to fight. There's no way to make her leave and go for a drive, is there? That would just start another battle. When he did that, it just left her standing there sputtering and stunned. A person can only control themselves - no one else. You cannot make someone else leave, you cannot make someone else stop talking, you cannot make someone else do anything. You can only control your own actions.

As for giving her "control", that's just what he avoided doing. In a power struggle, one person has to let go. There is no 'winning' in relationships. Relationships aren't games. So you let go and come at it from another angle so you can discuss it rationally.

Exactly. He took the wind out of her sails and refused to engage unless she controlled herself and behaved in an acceptable manner. Denying her an audience was the best thing he could have done IMO.
 

AlphaMale

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Posts
3,055
Media
35
Likes
5,477
Points
468
Location
USA
Verification
View
Sexuality
50% Straight, 50% Gay
Gender
Male
@ LaFemme & redz_rule

Now I get what you guys are saying, but what you two are describing is "winning an argument as a man, the way a woman would want you to win it".

Sounds like it came from right out of the pages of "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" or something lol.

I don't think other men are going to describe his behavior as very manly, but on the contrary his behavior is going to win major brownie points with women.
 

LaFemme

Mythical Member
Staff
Moderator
Verified
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Posts
40,863
Media
2
Likes
38,885
Points
743
Location
Canada
Sexuality
90% Straight, 10% Gay
Gender
Female
@ LaFemme & redz_rule

Now I get what you guys are saying, but what you two are describing is "winning an argument as a man, the way a woman would want you to win it".

Sounds like it came from right out of the pages of "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" or something lol.

I don't think other men are going to describe his behavior as very manly, but on the contrary his behavior is going to win major brownie points with women.

Never read the book.

So how would you handle the situation?
 

redz_rule

Sexy Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Posts
2,221
Media
0
Likes
30
Points
73
Sexuality
No Response
I disagree AM. As far as I'm concerned, it's the mature way to handle an argument that is escalating and is gender neutral. I despise drama queens of either gender. The most 'manly' men I know have a lot of self control and would walk away every time. Whether it's because they could do a lot of damage and don't trust themselves or they are just that mature I don't know - I can't see inside their heads. I do know that no-one would ever imply they weren't 'manly'. Not to their faces, anyway.

What is the alternative anyway? Physically remove her from the house and lock her out?

I don't know about the book because I've never read it.
 

LaFemme

Mythical Member
Staff
Moderator
Verified
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Posts
40,863
Media
2
Likes
38,885
Points
743
Location
Canada
Sexuality
90% Straight, 10% Gay
Gender
Female
Personally, I have real problem with winning arguments. And this just might be me and the people with whom I associate. When I have a friendship or am in a relationship I don't argue to win. When an issue arises, we discuss it so there can be a resolution. There are three possible outcomes: I give in, the other person gives in, or we compromise. Whatever the outcome, we both have to agree on it. I am not going to argue until the other person caves out of fatigue. I don't have to 'win'. Winning makes the other person a loser. I don't have loser friends and I don't date losers.
 

Smaccoms

Legendary Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Posts
2,778
Media
7
Likes
1,466
Points
583
Age
34
Location
Massachusetts (United States)
Sexuality
No Response
Oh, he's no doormat. He's just not going to fight. There's no way to make her leave and go for a drive, is there? That would just start another battle. When he did that, it just left her standing there sputtering and stunned. A person can only control themselves - no one else. You cannot make someone else leave, you cannot make someone else stop talking, you cannot make someone else do anything. You can only control your own actions.

As for giving her "control", that's just what he avoided doing. In a power struggle, one person has to let go. There is no 'winning' in relationships. Relationships aren't games. So you let go and come at it from another angle so you can discuss it rationally.

+1

Exactly. When one has a poor sense of identity (male or female) they may gravitate to the extreme ends of the spectrum where sexism exists. The 'bad boy' treats women like objects to be used and discarded; the 'nice guy' puts the woman on a pedestal and yeses her to death. Both ignore the human being. The 'good man' knows who he is and is confident in himself and allows for true intimacy. There's no room for sexism and his relationship with his partner isn't coloured by how "this is how women are".

For women, the same holds true as well. I could be the doormat/clingon, the siren/heartbreaker/ballbreaker or I could be the good woman who is secure in myself. I could give men the benefit of the doubt and not colour my opinion by thinking that all men are the same - that all men are predators, or abusers or users or all after the same thing.

I guess that's what I like about not being a sexist ass. Everybody gets a fresh start with me :biggrin:!

Love it. What I find funny is that a lot of people get stuck in the "binary" which Western culture loves so much; male versus female, black versus white, gay versus straight, nice versus bad. They only see and express extremes which naturally leads into what you are describing. It's quite if you ask me.
 

Smaccoms

Legendary Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Posts
2,778
Media
7
Likes
1,466
Points
583
Age
34
Location
Massachusetts (United States)
Sexuality
No Response
Personally, I have real problem with winning arguments. And this just might be me and the people with whom I associate. When I have a friendship or am in a relationship I don't argue to win. When an issue arises, we discuss it so there can be a resolution. There are three possible outcomes: I give in, the other person gives in, or we compromise. Whatever the outcome, we both have to agree on it. I am not going to argue until the other person caves out of fatigue. I don't have to 'win'. Winning makes the other person a loser. I don't have loser friends and I don't date losers.

I completely agree. Humans adapt culturally (as opposed to physically like all other creatures). We experience that culture through society. Society builds from the bottom and upward; it is based on an understanding and relation between all involved. This is what evolved homo sapiens into what we are today, and it is ultimately the focus of any social circle no matter how small. The focus being, of course, to build a societal structure which everyone can understand and relate to.
 

AlphaMale

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Posts
3,055
Media
35
Likes
5,477
Points
468
Location
USA
Verification
View
Sexuality
50% Straight, 50% Gay
Gender
Male
Never read the book.

So how would you handle the situation?


I'm not really into "winning" arguments per se either. In fact, I don't think very many situations boil down to a "right" and "wrong" determination.

I do, however, think that when you let what someone else is doing dictate your actions then you are not in control. Hence, the case that we are talking about it.

If it were me in that situation, I would have suggested that she leave and figure it out or I would have just sat there and done something else while ignoring her. In essence, I would have "done nothing" myself based on what she was doing. That means I'm in control.

The fact that he physically did something (in this case, the act of leaving) means that she was in control of the situation 100%.

That being said, I'm not really the argumentative type in real life in the first place. People do not "try" me when it comes to anything, and I'm also very fair and compromising.

==

P.S. - I've never read the book either, I was just meaning that to me that situation sounded like it went down "the way the woman would have wanted it to".
 
Last edited:

LaFemme

Mythical Member
Staff
Moderator
Verified
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Posts
40,863
Media
2
Likes
38,885
Points
743
Location
Canada
Sexuality
90% Straight, 10% Gay
Gender
Female
I'm not really into "winning" arguments per se either. In fact, I don't think very many situations boil down to a "right" and "wrong" determination.

I do, however, think that when you let what someone else is doing dictate your actions then you are not in control. Hence, the case that we are talking about it.

If it were me in that situation, I would have suggested that she leave and figure it out or I would have just sat there and done something else while ignoring her. In essence, I would have "done nothing" myself based on what she was doing. That means I'm in control.

The fact that he physically did something (in this case, the act of leaving) means that she was in control of the situation 100%.

That being said, I'm not really the argumentative type in real life in the first place. People do not "try" me when it comes to anything, and I'm also very fair and compromising.

==

P.S. - I've never read the book either, I was just meaning that to me that situation sounded like it went down "the way the woman would have wanted it to".

I'm not sure that's "the way women would have wanted it to". If any person is used to arguing and getting their own way, it's kind of surprising to have someone refuse to play. I'm not sure that's a female thing. :shrug:

As to him leaving the house as opposed to just sitting there and doing something else, that could have been misconstrued as the silent treatment. I'm sure that's not what you meant, as the 'silent treatment' is an extremely passive aggressive method of dealing with an issue. Knowing her, it would have made the situation worse. He would have known that as well. As redz said - what he did took the wind out of her sails. Ultimately, he's the one who taught her how to resolve issues like a mature adult.

Anyway, this isn't a hypothetical situation and involves two real people. He knew what would work with her and it did. A different couple might do things differently.

The bottom line, is that he knows when to stand up for himself and he is no doormat; neither is he a jerk. He is a good man who is a great husband and father.
 

twoton

Superior Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Posts
7,865
Media
1
Likes
8,302
Points
268
Location
Mid Atlantic
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
Personally, I have real problem with winning arguments. And this just might be me and the people with whom I associate. When I have a friendship or am in a relationship I don't argue to win. When an issue arises, we discuss it so there can be a resolution. There are three possible outcomes: I give in, the other person gives in, or we compromise. Whatever the outcome, we both have to agree on it. I am not going to argue until the other person caves out of fatigue. I don't have to 'win'. Winning makes the other person a loser. I don't have loser friends and I don't date losers.

I had never been one to like winning arguments. Even if I found a clear advantage, or a winning point, sometimes I'd back off just so I wouldn't win. Don't know why. Personality, I guess. I don't like winners and losers in relationships. I want to be on the same team.

However, stepping out of the social relationships and into the work relationships, as I "mature" professionally I realize there are times when I most definitely need to win arguments, not for my own satisfaction, but for the good of the organization. If that makes any sense.
 

LaFemme

Mythical Member
Staff
Moderator
Verified
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Posts
40,863
Media
2
Likes
38,885
Points
743
Location
Canada
Sexuality
90% Straight, 10% Gay
Gender
Female
I had never been one to like winning arguments. Even if I found a clear advantage, or a winning point, sometimes I'd back off just so I wouldn't win. Don't know why. Personality, I guess. I don't like winners and losers in relationships. I want to be on the same team.

However, stepping out of the social relationships and into the work relationships, as I "mature" professionally I realize there are times when I most definitely need to win arguments, not for my own satisfaction, but for the good of the organization. If that makes any sense.

That makes total sense. Business is completely different than relationships. In work, there is competition and there is definitely winning and losing. There is a hierarchy - someone is always the boss and has the final decision. At work, I always want my organization to 'win'. I get what you mean. :smile:
 

TheBestYouCan

Legendary Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Posts
827
Media
203
Likes
2,291
Points
263
Location
U.S.
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
I think you are way off on this one AM. In my experience there is noting more infuriating to anyone, female or male ,than someone who suddenly refuses to engage you in an argument/discussion that moments before was on going. She doesn't have 100% control of the situation because obviously she would rather continue arguing. By removing himself from the environment entirely the guy has given himself space to cool down but also made it impossible for her to follow him to the next room and try to continue the argument. She is powerless at that point... and in the nature of human beings, if he stays gone long enough her anger will subside to the point she can speak rationally again. In the end, however, it's not about winning or control... if it was then men would still beat the shit out of their wives in a disagreement as a societal norm and I am sure you don't espouse that point of view. It's about an open dialogue, even if both disagree, without hurtful intentions towards the other person. If you are arguing and simply can't come to the realization or admit that the other person is right out of pride because you have to be the "Alpha Male" or "Boss Female" then you have no business in a relationship to begin with.
 

The Dragon

Sexy Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Posts
5,767
Media
0
Likes
51
Points
193
Sexuality
50% Straight, 50% Gay
I think you are way off on this one AM. In my experience there is noting more infuriating to anyone, female or male ,than someone who suddenly refuses to engage you in an argument/discussion that moments before was on going. She doesn't have 100% control of the situation because obviously she would rather continue arguing. By removing himself from the environment entirely the guy has given himself space to cool down but also made it impossible for her to follow him to the next room and try to continue the argument. She is powerless at that point... and in the nature of human beings, if he stays gone long enough her anger will subside to the point she can speak rationally again. In the end, however, it's not about winning or control... if it was then men would still beat the shit out of their wives in a disagreement as a societal norm and I am sure you don't espouse that point of view. It's about an open dialogue, even if both disagree, without hurtful intentions towards the other person. If you are arguing and simply can't come to the realization or admit that the other person is right out of pride because you have to be the "Alpha Male" or "Boss Female" then you have no business in a relationship to begin with.

You're awesome. :kiss:
 
7

798686

Guest
Personally, I have real problem with winning arguments. And this just might be me and the people with whom I associate. When I have a friendship or am in a relationship I don't argue to win. When an issue arises, we discuss it so there can be a resolution. There are three possible outcomes: I give in, the other person gives in, or we compromise. Whatever the outcome, we both have to agree on it. I am not going to argue until the other person caves out of fatigue. I don't have to 'win'. Winning makes the other person a loser. I don't have loser friends and I don't date losers.
I agree - can't be arsed reading the whole thread, but your view on arguments is ace.

Argue to get to the bottom of a matter, rather than to pointlessly win whether you're in the wrong, the right, or neither.