BF won't give oral... thoughts?

[Guy-jin]

Pretty straightforward, and I'm sure it's not the most original topic (there's one on the first page about the opposite situation where the girl won't give her boyfriend oral, but this it he opposite).

Here's the deal: Best friend of mine is a sexy lady. She's been dating a guy for years now and he's never gone down on her. He will not do it. She loves it and wants it. But she says that him not doing it is "not a deal-breaker(, ladies)."

Myself, I told her he needs to man up and go down. I have told her that if it is truly important, she needs to assert herself by explaining in a direct but kind way that it's very important to her. She thinks he is the type where ultimatums won't work and, she says, she honestly won't stop blowing and banging him even if he won't go down on her. This both confirms her "not a deal-breaker" stance and asserts in my mind that she's basically never going to get her pussy licked ever again.

Now, what's strange to me is that tonight in conversation between me, another of her good male friends, one of her good female friends, and her, myself and the other guy were basically on the side of "he needs to man up and go down" while, after a fair bit of shit talking, her and her female friend were kind of wishy-washy about it.

I don't get it. She brings up how unsatisfied with not getting any oral sex she is constantly but she seems unwilling to really press the issue.

What do you guys think of this situation? Anyone been in a similar situation?

I know it's a bit vague--I have a feeling a lot of the strong women here would tell this guy to take a hike. But she does have strong feeling for him. Personally, I think she needs to seriously and directly communicate to him that it's important to her and that she needs it to be sexually satisfied.

Any input appreciated. :smile:

 

[The Dragon]

You've obviously tried to talk her through it and she is still whinging about something she won't change.

Maybe you should "man up" and tell her either deal with the issue or STFU.

 

[wildmann86]

You've obviously tried to talk her through it and she is still whinging about something she won't change.

Maybe you should "man up" and tell her either deal with the issue or STFU.

i agree

 

[Guy-jin]

You've obviously tried to talk her through it and she is still whinging about something she won't change.

Maybe you should "man up" and tell her either deal with the issue or STFU.

Maybe, but I'm not in the habit of telling my best friend to shut the fuck up. Call it a respect thing. (Frankly, I'm the most direct person you're bound to meet in person, so don't think I haven't done everything short of saying STFU.)

I think what I'm trying to get here is a little bit of clarity of what other women would do in the same situation.

The scenario would be that you love this guy, the sex is good, but him not ever going down on you is a significant point of contention. How do you think you would handle that? Ultimatum? Conversation?

My personal feeling is conversation. Direct discussion of the issue--expression that oral sex is very important to her. But also expression that there are consequences if it doesn't happen.

Because, honestly, she's afraid of being left. She won't threaten leaving him because she has no follow through and he knows it. That said, I think he would do it if she pushed the issue. But she doesn't seem willing to for fear of him leaving her.

So sure, telling her to "deal with it" is one way. But maybe someone has something else to suggest. :smile:

 

[Gecko4lif]

If he doesnt want to do it he isnt going to do it. Either you up the incentive or nothing happens. Case closed.

As an adult she should realize this. Basic problem solving skills.

 

[petite]

Wow! I wish I could say I was surprised, but I'm not. I know women like that. I was sort of a woman like that.

I've personally never been in that situation. I've never been committed or devoted to a man who wouldn't lick me or who actually never went down on me.

This is the closest I've ever gotten to a similar situation... One of my four LTR was with a man who wasn't very creative or interesting in bed. Our sex life started out steamy, but by ~3 months into the relationship, we had settled into a pattern that would remain for the next few years. I felt like he tricked me, being so passionate in the very beginning, when that wasn't really what he was like. He wasn't interested in oral sex, either receiving or giving, although he gave it sometimes, more often than he let me give him oral sex, and he preferred having sex in the missionary position. I tried everything to spice up our sex life. I talked to him. I told him what I wanted directly. I read him erotic stories in bed. I suggested books with erotic themes and passages to read together, which he enjoyed, but he focused his discussion with me on literary criticism and seemed immune to being aroused by them. I suggested that we each write down fantasies and trade them. Mine he criticized for it's failure to be literature, and his wasn't fantasy at all. I took him to dirty bookstores with me and shopped for toys. I tried all of those things in the first six months of the relationship. Nothing worked. Yet, despite all my frustration with him, he kept me satisfied enough that I didn't consider leaving him over it. He regularly gave me orgasms and we had sex three times a week, without fail. It was the bare minimum for me. I loved him and I considered the good parts of our relationship to be good enough that our boring sex life wasn't a deal-breaker for me.

There were consequences. His apparent lack of lust for me made me feel very unattractive. I often suspected that he only had sex with me regularly to keep me from complaining, and I suspected that if I stopped coming on to him that we wouldn't have sex at all. That was a terrible feeling. I don't think anyone should have to feel like that, and I wish that I didn't blame myself. We simply had incompatible sex drives.

Since leaving that relationship, I've had one other short term relationship with a similar man. I learned my lesson with the first one and even though he was kind and I enjoyed spending time with him, I knew that we weren't destined to be together for long. I made a little effort to spice up our sex life, but I didn't try too hard.

I don't think I would put up with that now. I think I would have less patience, but who knows? Feelings of love and devotion are complicated. There were good reasons why I felt so close and devoted to that man, and that had nothing to do with what happened between us in bed.

I don't have any advice for your friend. I think that if she loves him, then she ought to try everything she can to get what she needs from him. I also think that she ought to tell him what she wants. The problem is that it has been my experience that it doesn't work, but that doesn't mean that her guy is just like mine. A different guy, maybe a different result?

 

[Guy-jin]

Your response is very insightful, Petite. Thanks.

I think that's the feeling she was sending to me in the conversations we've had about it. Most of all, the thing about it that hurts the most is that it makes her feel unattractive.

And I do think based on what she's said that she's the driving force behind their sexual relations. It seems that he would just as well flop over and fall asleep as fuck her (or let her fuck him as seems to be the case).

It's complicated by the kids, to be honest. To her, the sexual relationship is a significant part, but it's just part. He does great with her kids as step-dad. And he's a nice guy to boot generally. He's fun. He's nice. He's good with kids. He's even good when they fuck. But he won't go down and he may even not be the driving force behind their sex.

Now, in your situations it seems those relationships didn't last (which was good for you, but I digress :smile. These two have been together four years now. Most of their problems honestly seem pretty typical to me... he won't do dishes or the laundry for example. On the other side, she doesn't make as much money and doesn't pay for as much generally.

But sexually, it seems uneven. She blows, she sucks, she fucks. He gets it up. (Great.) Honestly, I feel kind of like your end result with dudes like this is where they're heading, but I like both of them a lot and don't want to see them split over what I think is the result of insecurity on his part.

Do you think I should say something to him? Honestly, it's more awkward for men to talk about that kind of thing than women, but at this point I've heard about it enough that I feel like I could.

 

[B_subgirrl]

If it were my friend, I'd do as you've done and tell her to talk to him about it honestly. If she wasn't willing to do that (or to go to more extreme measures), but kept complaining about it, I'd do as Dragon suggested and tell her to STFU. Only I'd probably be a little more polite about it. In fact, I've done that in the past. If it's not important enough for them to talk to their partner about it, they certainly don't need to talk about it so much to me. The victim mentality irritates me - they've made a choice to be with that person as they are, and if they don't like it, they need to change it. And I really think it's disrespectful to talk negatively about your partner behind their back to that extent.

If it was me . . . well, history says that I'd put up with an unsatisfactory sex life, although I'd like to think that I'd make different decisions next time.

And about talking to the guy . . . I'm not sure there's a way you could do it without both of you feeling really uncomfortable. Maybe you could begin a conversation about oral in a more general sense and try to feel out why he doesn't like to do it?

 

[maxcok]

Because, honestly, she's afraid of being left. She won't threaten leaving him because she has no follow through and he knows it. That said, I think he would do it if she pushed the issue. But she doesn't seem willing to for fear of him leaving her.

^ This. There are so many women who find/put themselves in this position. They think, rightly or wrongly, that the situation they're in is the best they can do, so they put up with all kinds of shit to hold onto their man. They can't imagine that they could do better, that they're worth better, or worse, that they could even survive a breakup. Unless she develops the confidence and self esteem to follow through on her demands with him and make it clear this is important, there's not much you can do to advise her. Sad, but true.

You could suggest they try some couples/sex therapy, but he doesn't sound like the type who'd go for that.

 

[luka82]

My friend had the same problem. Her BF looooooooooooooooved a good BJ. And she loved giving him. She decided that if he won`t go down on her she won`t go down on him. She stopped giving him BJs. He survived a month. Now he goes down on her every time, and he enjoys it. Before her he has never given any woman oral sex. He said it was ewww. In her opinion he is an expert, now
EDIT-I forgot to say that this guy doesn`t like any ultimatiums either. But he had to surender

 

[ConstantComment]

****What do you guys think of this situation? Anyone been in a similar situation?*****


Yes, a few years ago. The reason why I dealt with him as a long as I did (the entire relationship lasted 2years, the first year LD) because

1. I had never given thought to how important a happy sex life was to a happy relationship and kept doubting its importance at the same time that I was unhappy with that part of the relationship. Then I started to notice the mythology that he created to support his excuses for not going down on me ie "I'm not sexually experienced." He was 49 years old and claimed that he had not had sex for 4 years before we started dating.

2. My sister was accusing me of preferring white guys and I was determined to show her that I was giving this guy every chance.

These days if a guy didn't go down on me with gusto, I wouldn't discuss, I wouldn't say anything, I would simply stop going out with him.

 

[molotovmuffin]

My friend had the same problem. Her BF looooooooooooooooved a good BJ. And she loved giving him. She decided that if he won`t go down on her she won`t go down on him. She stopped giving him BJs. He survived a month. Now he goes down on her every time, and he enjoys it. Before her he has never given any woman oral sex. He said it was ewww. In her opinion he is an expert, now
EDIT-I forgot to say that this guy doesn`t like any ultimatiums either. But he had to surender

I said it better in the other thread...but will semi repeat here...

No more bj's mister until you return the favor.

 

[luka82]

I said it better in the other thread...but will semi repeat here...

No more bj's mister until you return the favor.

LOL!

 

[MisterSix]

I think women give men far too many breaks and allow us to be pricks. I don't want to get into deep discussions, but basically it comes down to insecurity and the feeling that sometimes it's better to be wanted by a jerk than to be alone.

We all know someone who is with a guy who demeans them and treats them like dirt, yet they won't leave them. And sometimes they marry them.

 

[dirkjesje]

I don t get it what you can do... it's her relation.
If that guy doesn t like it, she has to deal with it. If she finds oral so needed, she can allways find a lover that can pleasure her.
My girl-friend doesn t like oral, it doesn t do anything for her.
So be it.
If she would let me, just to pleasure me, it doesn t feel good.
And chantage in love making doesn t work.

 

[D_Bobby_Saux]

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. As long as hygiene isn't the issue he needs to learn to provide her with intense oral pleasure. Just going down isn't the same if he doesn't really get into it. Her pleasure should be his utmost concern. Good luck with getting her to speak up about her own pleasure.

 

[185248]

Not qualified to answer this...Oral has never really been a big thing of mine. It's all hype...

 

[Intrigue]

I know the typical response of a friend is to advise or help when we believe it to be necessary but I think, personally, after many years and trying to help people that most people say they want help but don't really want it. They just want to act like they are doing something about it but nothing ever really gets done. A tad pessimistic but that's how I see that issue. I've tried to advise friends in the past on this issue, chances are if he's a good guy she will put up with it even though she doesn't have too. You already gave the best advice you could sir. Have her try to talk it out in a civilized and safe environment but at the end of the day it's their relationship and is best left to them to figure out. The best thing you can do is remain supportive. And talking to the guy while you may think it may be a good idea hasn't ever worked for me so I can't in good faith advise you to do so.

Side note: in therapy the other day when talking about emotional manipulation my therapist said to me that some women end up with great guys but actually train them, unconsciously, to treat them the way they are accustomed even if they don't want to be treated that way. Its a series of actions and behaviors that on some level signal the man that its ok to be a douche or to treat her in a way that is unacceptable to many but is perpetuated by the things she may or may not do. This is not to imply that your good friend is like this but it was something that a very well educated female therapist said to me that I thought perhaps might have some correlation to this thread. Hope that helps in some small way.

 

[Mike7]

Life is too short to put up with an unsatisfied sex life. If she loves oral and after talking to him he's not man enough to deliver it than it's time for her to find a guy who will.

 

[EllieP]

My experience and reaction is very similar to Petite. My first husband lost interest after the birth of our daughter, well, before actually when we found out I was pregnant. I never got oral after that. I could understand at the time that he might be a bit queasy, but even a year or two later nothing. That's when I began to feel that I'm no longer attractive to him.

And I was right. I was damaged goods I guess.

The kicker was that the infrequent times when we were intimate I would give him the full monty, you know. I should have recognized sooner that we were on the skids. A year later we separated. Good riddance.

I don't know if your friend's situation is the same. Sounds more like he has an unhealthy attitude toward reciprocal pleasure. I don't know what it would take to "expand his palate," but I would make sure I was squeaky clean and neatly trimmed. Prep it like a shiny used car at the front of the lot. I wouldn't paint big numbers with shoe polish, though. That's just going overboard. But if I would I'd probably put '69 or bust.'