Bi ain't a lie.

[D_Sam Rockswell]

Actually, between your post and a private message I just received I have only just heard of cock blocking. I have a good deal to learn here I see.

Truly I meant no offense. I'm about as uncompetitive as you can get. Not conflict averse, Or afraid to stand up for what I believe, just polite.

I mean no offense either. Felt like i needed to be on the defensive most of this thread. Though not in defense of me. This thread seems to be one of those types of threads. The kind that will live on in infamy

I'm polite also thats why i even hesitated to defend my point. Glad i didn't stop though. I've learned a massive amount from this so far.

 

[badger2395]

basically, this. but i don't care what people say. i dig on both guys and girls. they'll have to deal with it

Pretty much. I hear what JSZ is saying but it's a pretty nuanced message - and just a little conflicted, IMHO.

 

[badger2395]

@Badger, you see what I mean? You voice anything about bisexuality other than unabashed, unqualified support of it (essentially be bisexual) and there are members of the aforementioned orientation that absolutely cannot handle it and are not receptive to it. The negative experiences we were talking about? This is what I mean.

(snip)

If there's all this love loss for gay people from bisexual people maybe you guys should get your own damn parade. You can walk on either side of the road rather than straight down the middle. : )



JSZ

Yes, I hear you about this. Frankly, we'd all do a lot better if we worked on listening to each other, rather than holding forth all the time. That having been said, I'm not these other people, either. I'm not saying bisexuality is better, or that you need to be bi.

When you suggest, however, that we "should get your own damn parade" that's sounding awfully close to an example of bisexual erasure at work. I'm not hating, I'm trying to point something out: when someone says "gay pride parade," for example, that makes invisible all of the bi people that have been involved in such things from the beginning, like Brenda Howard. But maybe you're right :wink: maybe we need our own parade - it is certainly the case that lesbians were not treated very seriously by gay men until they established their own collective identity.

I guess what I am getting at here is that there is a lot of history at work here, and you might benefit from learning more about that history and context. I'd also *really* recommend the Yoshino article; if it makes any difference, he's a gay man trying to understand why bisexuals get discriminated by both gays and straights.

Just some thoughts - I'm appreciating the conversation that we're having, if nothing else.

 

[D_Percy_Prettywillie]

Yes, I hear you about this. Frankly, we'd all do a lot better if we worked on listening to each other, rather than holding forth all the time. That having been said, I'm not these other people, either. I'm not saying bisexuality is better, or that you need to be bi.

When you suggest, however, that we "should get your own damn parade" that's sounding awfully close to an example of bisexual erasure at work. I'm not hating, I'm trying to point something out: when someone says "gay pride parade," for example, that makes invisible all of the bi people that have been involved in such things from the beginning, like Brenda Howard. But maybe you're right :wink: maybe we need our own parade - it is certainly the case that lesbians were not treated very seriously by gay men until they established their own collective identity.

This was a joke in poor taste wherein I really had to thread the needle to make it work. (A gay parade and a bisexual parade; the only difference between the two would be [in a humorous universe] the bisexual people walking on either side of the center divide where as the gay people would walk down the middle.) I didn't mean it seriously and any merit the suggestion has is no doubt outweighed by the hit unity would take were that to happen.

I guess what I am getting at here is that there is a lot of history at work here, and you might benefit from learning more about that history and context. I'd also *really* recommend the Yoshino article; if it makes any difference, he's a gay man trying to understand why bisexuals get discriminated by both gays and straights.

Just some thoughts - I'm appreciating the conversation that we're having, if nothing else.

I printed that out. I'm going to read it tomorrow and report back. This all boils down to my not really giving a damn. I'm not offended by bisexuals, I don't mistrust them, and I harbor no... ill will toward them. This whole mess was born out of someone interjecting themselves in the middle of a misinterpreted, poorly worded sentence. That said there are people who do and its they who need to be convinced not I.

Do as you please so long as it doesn't break the law or infringe upon anyone elses ability to do as they please. That's the bottom line on me.




JSZ

 

[B_Hung Jon]

JSZ has a quite traditional point of view. I personally am not exploring my bisexuality because I want to find some girl or guy to "settle down" with. In fact I'm doing it for the opposite reason. I don't think relationships are generally about finding "a stable, secure relationship with someone and, if we're to believe what biology has told us, that will be with either a male or a female." To me that sounds incredibly uninteresting. It presupposes that I can only fall in love with one person in a whole lifetime, and this idea of "one true love" sounds like it came out of some romance novel.

The reality is that a person can love as many people as s/he is capable of loving. And each relationship can be perfect and true. I think it's part of our consumer culture to prize the one and only myth because it reinforces all the material stuff that comes with commitment and marriage (expensive rings, a big wedding, a new home, kids and then sending them off to school for 20 years). I think the romance game is just that...a game. And I as one bisexual guy am not buying into it.

Because I believe in the idea of a relationship that lasts. I believe in the staying power of two people in a committed relationship. Because I think bisexuality is a trend, especially amongst members of my generation and because I think at some point everyone finds someone...

I don't discount bi-sexuality as something illegitimate, I really don't. I think, however, at the end of the search (which I think is something all people are on whether they know it or not) people reach a binary state; you find a male or a female that exemplifies what it is you've been striving for in a partner. Once you do your orientation is confirmed assuming you, like me, are perhaps niaeve enough to think that one true love per life time is probably more than anyone should hope to attain.

Some people are just more... "open" in their search and don't discount based on gender and that sort of freedom is not only something I respect but something I envy and have, in the past, learned from. That being said I stand behind the idea that at the end we all reach a binary state; a male, a female, or like Mark Twain (crazy, alone, in a cabin in the woods.) Are their exceptions? Of course. Futanari wasn't a word that came up in sex-ed but I'm sure as hell aware of it now.

For me, however, I think of bisexuality as an open minded attitude toward that exploration of sexuality beyond the capacities of most (myself included) that will ultimately lead to the same place; a stable, secure relationship with someone and, if we're to believe what biology has told us, that will be with either a male or a female.


Maybe that's not as "new age" as it should be... but that's how I feel about it.




JSZ

 

[big_sights]

Bisexuality???, I don't consider myself gay, straight, or bi. One reason is I don't have enough sexual or relationship experience with either. Have I been turned on by both men and women, sure- who hasn't at some point in time. I can recognize an attractive guy and not pop wood. From an emotional standpoint, I can say I've been in love with both a woman and a man(currently) before, does that make me bi- not necessarily. What I have realized is that love has no boundaries, it transcends gender, sexuality, etc. The funny thing for me is that when thinking about either love interest in a sexual way I'm liable to pop wood. I will say that though I have seen other attractive guys besides the guy I've fallen for, I could not see myself in a relationship or sexually intimate (anal) with another guy. Shit, the thought of anal sex still is an act I'm not fully comfortable with. To clear up any misconceptions I've never been in a relationship with either people, just friends.

The world would be such a great place if people were allowed to be who they were.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

having sex with both genders doesn't make you the fucking Dali Lama.

It's Dalai Lama, not Dali Lama. Just sayin


I'm an amateur Mongolist and fan of central Asian history (history in general actually), it bugs me when people say Dali (Dal-ee) and opposed to Dalai (Dal-eye) because Dalai is a Mongol word. The first Dalai Lama may or may not have been given his title by a Mongol Khan called Altan Khan ("Golden" Khan). But obviously feel free to ignore this because it's totally off topic LOL.

 

[MickeyLee]

Mr. Hillie,

Dali Llama

 

[Stephenmass]

Im also bisexual and while i prefer relationships with women, I really have no sexual preference, its all good to me

I'm sooooooo glad to hear you say that Andrew!! Damn, u r hot! Body, damn everything! Perfect!

 

[dreamer20]

Thread merge needed please::smile:


http://www.lpsg.org/262108-hey-did-anyone-else-see.html

 

[280028]

Because I believe in the idea of a relationship that lasts. I believe in the staying power of two people in a committed relationship. Because I think bisexuality is a trend, especially amongst members of my generation and because I think at some point everyone finds someone...

I don't discount bi-sexuality as something illegitimate, I really don't. I think, however, at the end of the search (which I think is something all people are on whether they know it or not) people reach a binary state; you find a male or a female that exemplifies what it is you've been striving for in a partner. Once you do your orientation is confirmed assuming you, like me, are perhaps niaeve enough to think that one true love per life time is probably more than anyone should hope to attain.

Some people are just more... "open" in their search and don't discount based on gender and that sort of freedom is not only something I respect but something I envy and have, in the past, learned from. That being said I stand behind the idea that at the end we all reach a binary state; a male, a female, or like Mark Twain (crazy, alone, in a cabin in the woods.) Are their exceptions? Of course. Futanari wasn't a word that came up in sex-ed but I'm sure as hell aware of it now.

For me, however, I think of bisexuality as an open minded attitude toward that exploration of sexuality beyond the capacities of most (myself included) that will ultimately lead to the same place; a stable, secure relationship with someone and, if we're to believe what biology has told us, that will be with either a male or a female.


Maybe that's not as "new age" as it should be... but that's how I feel about it.

JSZ

more of the same. ...yawn.

 

[280028]

yeah, thanks... i posted this before i saw this thread. please merge it or delete it, admin alchemists!! kthx

Thread merge needed please::smile:


http://www.lpsg.org/262108-hey-did-anyone-else-see.html

 

[280028]

more of the same. ...yawn.

@ justsomezombie

nm. my mistake. i really need to read all the posts before i RAGE.

 

[DavidXL]

Because most people see it as straddling the fence. As being indecisive or confused. Not to get political but i think those who vote independently get the same amount of side way views.

I straddle the fence in a lot of areas of my life, not just my sexuality. I'm attracted to whom I'm attracted to, without a big regard to gender. Politically, I vote independently. I tend to see both sides to every story. And I can have a hard time ordering between 2 choices in a restaurant (and will wonder after I ordered whether I made the right choice.).

 

[rawrg]

Because most people see it as straddling the fence. As being indecisive or confused. Not to get political but i think those who vote independently get the same amount of side way views.

Totally agree with you.

I'm a little bisexual, hence the 10% gay. I'm also an independent voter.

I've never had a problem with someone being open minded, and honestly I can't stand close-minded people.

 

[jp]

Wow, I didn't know that this article would spark this much heated convo. As I see it, I would say it's best for us to take people at their word and not assume much beyond that. If someone says they are bi/gay/straight and then add your own ideas about what they're looking for in a relationship is mighty presumptuous.

Bisexuality is a reality in our society and anyone who doesn't want another person dictating what they can and can't do sexually should just live and let live.

 

[D_Claude_Jenitalia]

Bi-sexuality IS a fucking legitimate choice.

"WE" don't HAVE to make a fucking choice because bi-sexuality IS our fucking choice.
"WE" don't have to choose one sex over the other.
"WE" don't have to return to a binary state to be normal or to have relationships or to be happy!
"WE" Bi people have a legitimate sexual preference which is every bit as legitimate as being straight or gay.

I refuse to be talked down to and I refused to have people who have no clue what it is like to actually be Bi to tell me what my sexuality is about.
I refuse to accept a layman's definition of what it means to be a Bi person or how to conduct the business of being Bi!

Could not have said it better myself.

 

[Ururu18]

My friend posted this on facebook a few days ago. I have no Idea why they even doubted the existence of Bisexual men. I mean really!

 

[L_egit]

This thread highlights some of the most pervasive, yet hidden sexual discrimination of our time. That said, the response to it gives me reason to be hopeful for the future.

Thanks to all of the posters who came out in defense of preference.

 

[SuckmeNOW]

@Badger, you see what I mean? You voice anything about bisexuality other than unabashed, unqualified support of it (essentially be bisexual) and there are members of the aforementioned orientation that absolutely cannot handle it and are not receptive to it. The negative experiences we were talking about? This is what I mean. When I said earlier;



this is the tone toward which I was directing the statements. It is hardly uncommon though I will say in the real world (outside of the internet) the sentiment is at least presented in more civil fashion (right up to the point "maturity" and "enlightenment" come into it.)


It just makes me kind of want to roll my eyes especially since, again, I don't really care about this as it doesn't effect me in any meaningful way. I'm not bisexual but I said in my very first post it was something I respected and was maybe even a little envious of- and look what that's gotten me. There are people who don't trust bisexuals, who think of them as fence riders, and who even go so far as to blame them for the proliferation of STDs (in the thinking that bisexuality and promiscuity go hand in hand.) I'm not one of those people but for all the flack I've taken in this thread from the bisexual community, I might as well be. If they're not bisexual, let's attack them? Is that the idea? If there's all this love loss for gay people from bisexual people maybe you guys should get your own damn parade. You can walk on either side of the road rather than straight down the middle. : )



JSZ

You clearly missed the point where i wrote 'i have gay friends, bi friends, and straight friends and we dont doubt one anothers choices'. I dont believe we are better than the st8s/ gays just because we have more choice. None of that better because we are more open minded bollocks!Your sexual orientation doesnt dictate whether your more open minded - its the individuals opinions, beliefs and decisions and most of the ability to debate.

I myself can see where your comming from but you keep generalizing to every Bi-sexual out there. And what this mental foundation bollocks your talking about? Im completely sane, never went through and child hood trauma or stuff like that.

It was YOU i was calling closed minded not EVERY gay or STRAIGHT person in the world and yes, there are even some closed minded bisexual people