Biden Denied Holy Communion

[twoton]

You are incorrect

Then what is correct?

 

[twoton]

#234 isn’t wholly applicable.
Was the decision political? Maybe, maybe not. It could be a decision of a priest strictly interpreting the rules. As for Biden getting a pass in one diocese and not another, those sorts of decisions are within the authority of the local bishop. What flies in one diocese might not in another.

As for the rest, about how an individual should determine whether he himself should receive holy communion might be Protestant dogma but it’s not Roman Catholic dogma, and those RC rules are the rules Biden binds himself to.

aside from that, I was describing the basics of the Roman Catholic Rite of Reconciliation. Again, this is the faith Biden professes.

 

[twoton]

I have never seen a person denied communion, and I would bet the vast majority of priests never do it. Why? Because they don’t know the state of the person.

If Biden walked up to Fr. Scaramucci for communion, Scsramucci has no idea whether Biden made a good confession prior to that moment. So he really has no grounds for denying it.

On the other hand, Biden makes no secret of his positions on certain matters.

 

[Klingsor]

In times past, people would have similar disputes about angels dancing on the head of a pin. With just about the same level of importance.

 

[chicagosam]

In times past, people would have similar disputes about angels dancing on the head of a pin. With just about the same level of importance.

Pinheads discussing pinheads. Angelic.

 

[malakos]

As I have said it’s unchristian to not forgive.

This has nothing to do with forgiveness. It has to do with a minister of the Sacrament, who is charged with guarding it and protecting communicants from receiving in a state of mortal sin, determining that an individual who came to partake was not sufficiently prepared and would do spiritual harm to himself if he did partake.

 

[ActionBuddy]

*yawn*...

I am now Un-watching this thread.

A/B

 

[twoton]

This has nothing to do with forgiveness.

 

[malakos]

I think Biden is the least of their worries and they should be concentrating on “cleaning house”.

Dealing with a nominally Catholic politician promoting a supposed right to kill the unborn, contra the explicit teachings of the Church, and thus potentially undermining said teachings, is most certainly not the least of their worries.

 

[fireman1294]

So true.
Covering their paedophile tracks is priority number 1.

Why are you trying to bait him into agreeing with you by rephrasing your opinion different ways?

 

[ConanTheBarber]

I’m not baiting anybody.

No, you're just giving malakos deliberate incomprehension and irrelevant asides.

I don't know why he wastes time on you.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Yawn

^^^^^
So impressive.

 

[Knosy]

They're definitely not. I can forgive someone I've been wronged by morally without that being sufficient for the two of us to be reconciled. In other words, forgiveness can be merely one-way, a change of the disposition of the offended towards the offender, whereas reconciliation has to be effected by the cooperation of the offender and the offended.

The point is that in the Catholic tradition, the Church is seen as mediating reconciliation of the faithful to Christ. If someone is staying attached to his/her sins, and is refusing to renounce them, then though God may forgive that person, and though the Church may forgive that person, he/she cannot be reconciled. What refusing to renounce one's sins really is is taking an oppositional stance against fellowship with Christ. Thus, it is impossible for such a person to benefit from receiving Holy Communion, and it is the responsibility of the ministers of the Church to bar that person from partaking, lest he/she "eateth and drinketh judgment" (1 Cor 11:29).

I'm just a passerby here, but I kind of find it hilariously ironic that people are having a debate about if Biden should be denied communion because his stance on abortion is an opposition to the church, on a site about sharing, liking, posting, penis\porn pictures with other men. I'm pretty sure everyone on here is staying in sin, if you read a few scriptures on lust, and that other one about man on man in leviticus.

 

[dreamer20]

Article Excerpts: June 18, 2021 & June 16, 2021 as follows:

Lieu calls Catholic bishops 'hypocrites' for move to deny Biden communion

Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.) criticized the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) on Friday for advancing a formal statement indicating President Biden should be denied communion, calling the group "hypocrites" over the vote. The conference voted to proceed with drafting a teaching document on the Holy Eucharist outlining the meaning of communion. The statement will include whether Biden and other politicians should be denied communion based on their abortion stance.

“Dear @USCCB: I’m Catholic and you are hypocrites. You did not tell Bill Barr, a Catholic, not to take communion when he expanded killing human beings with the death penalty. You are being nakedly partisan and you should be ashamed. Another reason you are losing membership,” Lieu said.

Bishops to debate banning communion for president
On Monday, Pope Francis warned that communion should not be used as a political weapon by Catholic bishops. Church law doesn’t allow for national policies, so even if, following the release of the teaching document, the USCCB voted to deny pro-abortion rights politicians communion, it would need approval from the Vatican, which is highly unlikely.

 

[chicagosam]

Article Excerpts: June 18, 2021 & June 16, 2021 as follows:

Lieu calls Catholic bishops 'hypocrites' for move to deny Biden communion

Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.) criticized the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) on Friday for advancing a formal statement indicating President Biden should be denied communion, calling the group "hypocrites" over the vote. The conference voted to proceed with drafting a teaching document on the Holy Eucharist outlining the meaning of communion. The statement will include whether Biden and other politicians should be denied communion based on their abortion stance.

“Dear @USCCB: I’m Catholic and you are hypocrites. You did not tell Bill Barr, a Catholic, not to take communion when he expanded killing human beings with the death penalty. You are being nakedly partisan and you should be ashamed. Another reason you are losing membership,” Lieu said.

Bishops to debate banning communion for president
On Monday, Pope Francis warned that communion should not be used as a political weapon by Catholic bishops. Church law doesn’t allow for national policies, so even if, following the release of the teaching document, the USCCB voted to deny pro-abortion rights politicians communion, it would need approval from the Vatican, which is highly unlikely.

Apparently, pedophilia is a lesser (or non-existent) offense in the Catholic autocratic theocracy and is communion approved. Perhaps the sacrosanct men of the cloth need to make better choices in the self-righteous stances of their servitude of demagogic political causes. The religious community has lost a lot of credibility in the last five years with its hypocrisy, political alliances, and adherence to “Do as I say, and not as I do”.

 

[Industrialsize]

Mike Braun R-IN
Susan Collins R-ME
John Hoeven R-ND
Jim Risch R-ID
Mike Rounds R-SD
Marco Rubio R-FL
Dan Sullivan R-AK
Thom Tillis R-NC
Pat Toomey R-PA
The above are all Roman Catholic Senators.
All of the above support the death penalty.
The Catholic Church is officially against the death penalty.
The Catholic Bishops have nothing to say on whether the above should receive communion.
The Catholic Bishops are clearly playing POLITICS.
Take away their tax-exempt status.

 

[Freddie53]

One point that has had only a few remarks.

1. The Pope has asked that the American bishops to not pass a position paper that suggests politicians who support abortion rights be denied communion.

According to Catholic dogma, the Pope is considered God's representative here on earth.

Are the bishops in favor of denying communion defying God's representative and automatically defying God himself?

2. Susan Collins is Catholic and supports abortion rights. Should she also be denied Communion or is Communion only to be denied to Catholic Democrats who support abortion rights, not Republicans who support abortion rights?

3. I see a distinction between supporting the rights of others and what I may personally believe.

Suppose my church believed that non-Christians will go to hell. If I were in Congress or on a court and I voted for the rights of people in the US to keep the right for freedom to worship I would be voting for people to go to hell, (according to some Christians.) Would that be unforgiveable sin?

Should the pastor of my church refuse me Communion based on this?

3. Are all readers of this thread aware that if a person is denied communion by the priest this means that person is on the road to hell in a handbasket! (According to Catholic dogma.)

(This isn't just a rule written on the wall to wash your hands before getting into the line to take communion that the nuns decided to put up because of COVID.)

If so, we can let the religion wars began. The results will result in people in the same religion killing each other.

Our Christian ancestors have already been down this road. Do we really want to try out this road again?

If the bishops were deciding to take this step of (in general) denying communion to Catholics who favor abortion rights this might be different.

Instead this has all the looks of a political, not a religious debate.

This appears to me to be about Biden taking communion.

Here is a high profile person who believes that abortion is a decision for each pregnant woman to make without the state's involvement.

Is this decision by the bishops a political statement or a religious statement?

The Catholic Church teaches the belief that the Pope is God's representative here on earth. The pope has asked that the American bishops not "go there" concerning whether those who support abortion rights should be denied communion.

The American bishops are going against what "God's representative" here on earth as requested.

If these bishops truly believe everything that their church teaches how do they reconcile their opposing what God's representative to people living today with their actions of going against what God's representative has asked them to do?

What may result is a circus where Catholics have to pick which Catholic Church to attend so they can receive Communion.

Consider: A caravan of Catholics drive several hundred miles to receive communion in a church under a different bishop than the church where they would normally attend so they can receive communion.

Should Catholic Churches put yes or no on their church signs so Catholics would know which Catholic Church to attend to take communion!

It is reported somewhere in this thread that a majority of Catholics support the right of a woman to choose.

Will yes churches be full while no churches are empty?

The bishop in Washington DC is against denying communion for this so this won't even affect Biden.

My church teaches that it is up to each person to determine if we qualify to take communion. The Bible does have a chapter on the qualifications to take communion. We each can read that chapter and make our own decisions if we qualify to take communion.

Taken from I Corinthians 11:17-29 attributed to Saint Paul.

"Who ever eats this bread or drinks the cup of the Lord without proper reverence is sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.

"No, a person should thoroughly examine himself, and only if then should that person eat the bread or drink from the cup."

Saint Paul sidesteps making a list of which sins keep a person from taking communion and which sins don't keep a person from taking communion.

All major Christian denominations agree that Jesus is the only person that did not commit a single sin while on earth. Of course these same denominations teach that Jesus was both human and God (in some form or fashion.)

The Bible also states that, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Not counting Jesus in this particular passage.)

This is one reason that I am protestant and not catholic. I love many things about the Catholic Church. The fact that the Catholic Church gives to priests the decision on whether a member has made confession and received forgiveness in the same way that God hears confession and decides whether to forgive a sin is not one of the things that I admire about the Catholic Church.

As a Protestant, I believe that is God's job to be my judge concerning forgiveness of sin, not any church or person.

Is it Jesus or God in heaven or a priest here on earth that decides whether mortal sin has been committed and forgiveness not been given?

Catholics accept the doctrine that the priests speak for God concerning mortal sin. (Sin that sends a person to hell.) Protestants accept the doctrine that only God (Jesus) determine mortal sin.

I'll let the Catholics flesh this one. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the end.

It will be interesting to hear how God tells the priest at St. Joseph's church that a person has committed mortal sin and it is unforgiven while God tells the priest at All Soul's Church that the same person on the same day has committed mortal sin that has not been forgiven.

And,... we are talking about this sin of "supporting the rights of women to choose."

How will the Catholic church defend God changing his mind depending on which priest it is and or which supposed sinner it is?

 

[WilliamG]

It's so much easier being an atheist. Plus my Sundays are wide open.

 

[Freddie53]

It's so much easier being an atheist. Plus my Sundays are wide open.

1. You have a point! My church does not use the term priest for a reason. The term priest indicates that the priest has a relationship with God that is above non priests.

That creates trouble when humans who we know are not perfect try to take actions for a God who is painted as being perfect in any way!

2. Is god really nature or is there a god that directs nature?

Does "mother nature" have some kind of intelligence driving what we refer to as natural events or is there no design in mother nature's actions.

There is no way to get around the fact that nature is in force throughout the universe.

Some of nature is in cycles: the earth revolves around the sun.

Is all of nature cyclical?

3. If there is a god, is that god similar to humans except more powerful or is a god totally something else?

4. Does being atheist mean that there are no spirits floating around the universe?

5. I suspect there are more agnostics than atheists in the world. Agnostics duck the question. They don't claim faith that there is a god, nor do they proclaim there is no god either.

Selecting agnostic is the easiest answer to give. Who can argue with, "I don't know."

6. We each have to come to terms of what we think about all of the creation from a religious perspective or the universe from a scientific perspective.

In the modern world we do have to come to terms with what we believe about both perspectives for our own piece of mind.

We don't have a constitutional right to try to force everyone else to our thinking!

Invite - yes! Enforce - no!

Thanks for posting.

 

[b.c.]

...sumptin sumptin about the speck in one's brother's eye... as I recall.

Catholic bishops celebrate triumph of spite over faith as they attack the second Catholic president

Joe Biden is only the second Catholic president in U.S. history. He is also a practicing Catholic who clearly feels deeply about his faith, taking time to attend services regularly even in the midst of the busiest circumstances. Biden actively seeks out a place to attend mass both before and after major decisions in his life, both when he is in the limelight, and when he is at his most alone. The church was, and is, key to his acceptance of the massive tragedies in his life, and his religious practices have sustained him at times where it would have been easy to surrender to despair.


Joe Biden is not just a member of the Catholic church, he is someone for whom that identity as a Catholic, is a lynchpin. It’s not just his history, it’s his core. Saying that Biden “goes to church regularly” is deeply underselling the extent to which he has committed himself to his faith all his life.


And so, knowing this, the Roman Catholic bishops of the United States are now setting out to hurt Biden—and defying the Pope to do it.​

Biden Should Withhold What’s Most Sacred to Right wing Churches: Money
.