Biden: We Have to Go Spend Money to Keep From Going Bankrupt

[sparky11point5]

All governments tax and spend ... it's what they do. What are you not paying attention?

Seriously, most of the infrastructure created in this country over the last 150 years has been enabled and often paid for by the government.
-- Canals
-- Harbor navigation
-- Land grant universities
-- Railroads (through selling bonds, cheap land for right-of-ways, and encouraging settlement)
-- Interstate highway system
-- Internet

Just a few things

And, I would suggest that most of Western Europe, which has higher effective tax rates and greater investment levels than the US, are at least a counter-point. (I don't think everything these countries do would work here.) Arguably, these 'tax and spend' countries are in better shape than the US right now. For example, they still have a manufacturing sector. We buy crap from China. USA! USA!

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Trinity: Are you suggesting that there are more uninsured people in America than ones that are? LOL!! Even I'm not buying that one.

Again, nobody with current coverage HAS to switch to the government plan. Employers won't be forced to switch. And those who aren't covered will finally have insurance. Sounds as if the insurance companies are afraid of the competition.

 

[D_Tully Tunnelrat]

Militarism is bankrupting us.:frown1:

Go Joe! I could not agree more.

 

[Bodaddio]

You actually have to have the money to be able to spend it. We don't have it.
Why is it only Republicans have Ilk and Rhetoric, that is always fear mongering and Democrats have wide friends and speak nothing but the truth.
Will our law makes have to use this insurance for them and their families? You want people who don't have to use this to decide what you have and don't have to do.
You can't compete as a business with the entity that 1. makes the rules and 2. can exist without making a profit. Just can't be done.
Be pro-active and go pay for your neighbors health insurance, everyone will win then.

Cheers

 

[Bodaddio]

The problem is, there was no return on investment in GI Joe. All those planes, bullets and cool gadgets, but no one ever died. Just kept coming back to spread hate and evil on the world.

Cheers

 

[D_Cleon W Ballbreath IV]

The federal government has never managed anything efficiently.

How about Medicare/Medicaid? Social Security? The military? Public schools (until the last few decades when they went to pot)?

None of those are well managed?

Why do Republicans run for office since they believe government is the problem? Why not let those who think government can play a useful role have a go?

 

[Bodaddio]

Curious, nope none of those things has been run efficiently. If you have ever been involved or had to use the services you would know.

They run because that is the surest way to get and stay rich. Same reason Democrats run also.

Cheers

 

[SpeedoGuy]

Name one country where its government has taxed and spent it into prosperity...

Chirp... Chirp... Chirp... Chirp... Chirp... Chirp...

What do you think will be the eventual result of the ever widening disparity is the possession of wealth?

 

[Big Irish]

Well, the issue regarding spending in this case is Health Care. Do you think we should be spending money in this venture in an attempt to repair the economy? Personally, I think we should. Health Care costs is one of the main reasons why people go broke to begin with. Either way, doing nothing is not an option.

And the OP clearly failed the first law of economics, in his desperate need to type the word "libtard".

What, if I may ask, did ur econ professor tell you was the first law of economics? I don't recall it involving politics in any way. So, how is libtard a violation?

 

[Big Irish]

I couldn't make that up any better (actually I could). And here libtards latched on to Saturday Night Live making up that Palin said she could see Alaska from her house... when those in the know, knew the biggest dumbass in the election is Biden. This is where I feel sorry for Obama. He's 3x dumber than Quayle could EVER be.

Vice President Joe Biden told people attending an AARP town hall meeting that unless the Democrat-supported health care plan becomes law the nation will go bankrupt and that the only way to avoid that fate is for the government to spend more money.

“And folks look, AARP knows and the people with me here today know, the president knows, and I know, that the status quo is simply not acceptable,” Biden said at the event on Thursday in Alexandria, Va. “It’s totally unacceptable. And it’s completely unsustainable. Even if we wanted to keep it the way we have it now. It can’t do it financially.”

“We’re going to go bankrupt as a nation,” Biden said.

“Now, people when I say that look at me and say, ‘What are you talking about, Joe? You’re telling me we have to go spend money to keep from going bankrupt?’” Biden said. “The answer is yes, that's what I’m telling you.”

Poor Obama...

What do you mean poor Obama? Joe Biden is the greatest walking diversion that I have ever seen! His mouth keeps people focussed on his dumbass than looking at the shit Rahmbo and Barry keep trying to pull. Like trying to make ins companies and the soldiers themselves pay the VA for treatment. Cuz, we all know that it is the ins companies and the soldiers who put themselves in harms way, not politicians! Fortunately the va told them that they would publish this in every service magazine if it was attempted. Apparently, even these white house yahoos know it would be bad to alienate all military personnel, in a time of war.

 

[Big Irish]

A lot of people against say this, but I haven't seen anywhere in Obama's Health Care proposal that would essentially force people to own insurance. If anything, this provides people with another option. Most current plans either cost too much already, and most government programs at this time force people to be retired or practically bankrupt before they offer any assistance.



Most of the stuff you're suggesting makes sense. We'll just have to see how this all plays out.

Twice I have heard Obama talk about a national fine for not having health ins. On top of that this plan will be non-profit. How is a private or publicly held company supposed to compete with that? Look at what medicare did to health insurance for the aged? 30 years later we had to bring in "supplemental insurance". Why? Because governments fuck up most of what they do. Why? Because they are run by the most shielded and disconnected people, who are only interested in re-election! This idea that we can level the playing field is absurd. The only way I could support it, is if it were capped so as to only be avaiable to those in genuine need, as opposed to those who just want cheap care. Because if price is the true issue why is there gov't resistance to retail healthcare which would generate huge competition. Maybe its because liberals only hate big business when they don't control it. I mean noone seems to have problems with GE?

 

[Trinity]

What do you think will be the eventual result of the ever widening disparity is the possession of wealth?

That's what Obama is doing. Goldman Sachs is giving out even more bonuses while American families that had good jobs and homes are losing jobs with benefits and foreclosing. Taxes and prices for everything are going up and wages and hours are going down. The working and middle class is suffering but the wealthy are doing well. The Wall Street spiral has slowed but Main Street hasn't even received any help from the stimulus.

Name the Obama programs to increase the wealth of the poor, working class or middle class. Obama is indeed taking from the wealthy to pay for a number of social programs but he isn't giving it to the poor, working or middle class. The wealth goes to prop up programs that will collapse like government healthcare and will eventually collapse our economy when they don't bring down costs but further increase our debt and deficits.

We must stabilize the economy and produce. Obama must address the jobs crisis without this massive deficit spending.

There are three alternative proposals to healthcare reform that address covering the 47 million uninsured without breaking our economy. The Republican plans focus on quality of care and keeping costs down. Their proposals reward doctors and hospitals for doing a better job with quality care instead of rewarding by number of procedure or test.

In our current economic state, Obama's plans aren't the answer. That is why he is slipping in the polls.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Twice I have heard Obama talk about a national fine for not having health ins. On top of that this plan will be non-profit. How is a private or publicly held company supposed to compete with that? Look at what medicare did to health insurance for the aged? 30 years later we had to bring in "supplemental insurance". Why? Because governments fuck up most of what they do. Why? Because they are run by the most shielded and disconnected people, who are only interested in re-election! This idea that we can level the playing field is absurd. The only way I could support it, is if it were capped so as to only be avaiable to those in genuine need, as opposed to those who just want cheap care. Because if price is the true issue why is there gov't resistance to retail healthcare which would generate huge competition. Maybe its because liberals only hate big business when they don't control it. I mean noone seems to have problems with GE?

Oh, please... this has nothing to do with liberals and their abilities (or inabilities) to control big business. If you're going to assume the stance that government is fucked up and can't do anything right, then hold both parties responsible for the mess. It's not as if there aren't people on both sides of the political spectrum who are against Nationalized Health Care. You don't think that the resistance in our government to pass such a measure isn't brought on by people who haven't already been bought out by the insurance and pharmaceutical companies?

This argument goes beyond politics... it's an issue between those who have money and those who don't. The people with the resources influence other powerful people to do things in THEIR best interest. This isn't reserved to just Democrats or Republicans. If we know this, to assume that they're ever going to give us a level playing field is ridiculous. However, each step towards that goal is one worth considering and eventually taking. I'm not expecting Obama's Federal Health Care Plan to be exactly what government workers have, and for anyone to assume it would is ridiculous. However, it does provide something that millions of people don't have... an option. And why should we, as American citizens be so stubborn to not want more choices?

We should always be worried about the cost of things. However, if we're so worried about it to the point that you'll say no just on the thought of it without really analyzing the stats and how it financially affects you, then it makes no sense to even debate it. Case in point... the penalty for not having insurance. That's assuming that you'll willingly choose to live without something that everyone agrees is needed, plus assuming that the Federal Plan will be out of budget for most people which is a conclusion we can't even accurately draw right now.

From a link provided by someone in this thread earlier, that penalty (if I recall) is roughly 2.5% of your yearly income. It's also stated in this article: House health plan to boost taxes on rich - White House- msnbc.com

If you make $40,000 a year that comes up to $1000 or roughly $83 a month. Ask yourself... can you find a medical plan worth a damn that will cover most people for the bare essentials at that price? Probably not, especially if we're dealing with the current insurance companies and their overinflated prices. Besides, an uninsured person is more of a burden on our financial system because when they DO get sick or injured and need medical attention, they don't have the means to generate or guarantee money to the doctors or hospital workers that do the work. That is something that isn't reserved just for the liberals or conservatives.

And if you're rich, then I don't care what your tax burdens are because at the end of the day you still have way more than what you need in order to survive. I seriously don't care about a rich man's so-called "standard of living" based on their own selfish needs and not necessity. And if I was to become rich tomorrow, it's not like anyone else who is rich would care. They would be plotting their own schemes to take what I have anyhow.

We may not like government, but it's the only one we got unless we're going to go back to England and ask for forgiveness for the Revolutionary War. We have to accept the good and the bad it brings, and work out something that is in the best interest for our country. You'd be fooling yourself, and trumpeting the rhetoric of the rich, if you somehow think we shouldn't be trying to invest into our own futures.

 

[Trinity]

Support for Obama on healthcare slips: poll

Writing by Paul Simao; Editing by Louise Ireland - Reuters

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Public support for President Barack Obama's handling of healthcare reform, the pillar of his legislative agenda, has fallen below 50 percent for the first time, a Washington Post-ABC News poll released on Monday said.
Obama and his Democratic allies in Congress have run into stiff opposition this month as they try to pass legislation to restructure the $2.5 trillion U.S. healthcare industry through the creation of a government-run health insurance program.
Republicans and some fiscally conservative Democrats argue the plan, with an estimated cost of more than $1 trillion, could hurt small businesses, add to budget deficits and reduce the quality of medical care for many Americans.
Those concerns may be having an impact on the public, according to the poll, which showed 49 percent of respondents approving of Obama's stand on the issue compared to 57 percent in April.
Those saying they disapproved rose to 44 percent from 29 percent during the same period.
​

 

[Industrialsize]

Oooooooooohhhh! Big scary type!

 

[Industrialsize]

That's what Obama is doing. Goldman Sachs is giving out even more bonuses while American families that had good jobs and homes are losing jobs with benefits and foreclosing. Taxes and prices for everything are going up and wages and hours are going down. The working and middle class is suffering but the wealthy are doing well. The Wall Street spiral has slowed but Main Street hasn't even received any help from the stimulus.

Name the Obama programs to increase the wealth of the poor, working class or middle class. Obama is indeed taking from the wealthy to pay for a number of social programs but he isn't giving it to the poor, working or middle class. The wealth goes to prop up programs that will collapse like government healthcare and will eventually collapse our economy when they don't bring down costs but further increase our debt and deficits.

We must stabilize the economy and produce. Obama must address the jobs crisis without this massive deficit spending.

There are three alternative proposals to healthcare reform that address covering the 47 million uninsured without breaking our economy. The Republican plans focus on quality of care and keeping costs down. Their proposals reward doctors and hospitals for doing a better job with quality care instead of rewarding by number of procedure or test.

In our current economic state, Obama's plans aren't the answer. That is why he is slipping in the polls.

This one just kills me......The REPUBLICAN health care plan??????????? I've YET to see one. BTW, the Republicans had EIGHT years during which they could have proposed legislation for health care reform. It didn't seem to be a priority then and it still isn't. The Republicans don't want health care reform. They want to protect the insurance/pharnacy cartel.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

There's no such thing as a Republican Health Care Plan because they don't have one. All they said is that it would be "cheaper" than the current one proposed, but there are no specifics or numerical data to support it.

Would you believe someone on this board if they said they had a bigger dick than Quercusome but had no photos? Thought so...

 

[Trinity]

This one just kills me......The REPUBLICAN health care plan??????????? I've YET to see one.

You see what you want to see:

There is a Dr.Coburn Alternative and Judd Gregg Alternative. The GOP has backed an overall alternative and there is a bipartisan alternative.

From Sen. Coburn's website:
Senators Coburn, Burr and Representatives Ryan, Nunes Offer A Better Path Forward on Health Care Reform
Bicameral Coalition of Reformers Unveil “The Patients’ Choice Act of 2009”

WASHINGTON – Earlier today, U.S. Senators Tom Coburn, M.D. (R-OK) and Richard Burr (R-NC) and U.S. Representatives Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Devin Nunes (R-CA) introduced health care reform legislation that delivers on the shared principles of promoting universal access to quality, affordable health care, and does so without adding billions of dollars in new debt or taxes.

“The Patients’ Choice Act of 2009,” transforms health care in America by strengthening the relationship between the patient and the doctor; using choice and competition rather than rationing and restrictions to contain costs; and ensuring universal, affordable health care for all Americans. “The Patients’ Choice Act” promotes innovative, State-based solutions, along with fundamental reforms in the tax code, to give every American, regardless of employment status, age, or health condition, the ability and the resources to purchase health insurance. The comprehensive legislation includes concrete prevention and transparency initiatives, long overdue reforms to Medicare and Medicaid, investments in wellness programs and health IT, and more.

“As a practicing physician, I have seen first-hand how giving government more control over health care has failed to make health care more affordable and accessible. The American people deserve health care reform that will work, not another round of so-called reform that repeats the same failed policies of the past. Congress and the administration have the opportunity to pursue bold reform and a fresh start. The Patients’ Choice Act will provide every American with access to affordable health care without a tax increase, more debt and waiting lines,” Dr. Coburn said.
“The American health care system needs a complete transformation,” Senator Burr said. “The Patients’ Choice Act will finally enable Americans to own their health care instead of being trapped in the current system, which leaves people either uninsured, dependent on their employer, or forced into a government program. With a focus on prevention and wellness and covering those with pre-existing conditions, the Patients’ Choice Act will make health care affordable and accessible to all Americans.”

“Both parties need to step up to the plate with specific solutions to our nation’s health care crisis,” added Ryan. “The Patients’ Choice Act represents a clear alternative to those who seek to empower Washington at the expense of the individual, and I am hopeful that our efforts can help push Congress to enact a more sensible health care reform bill this year. The Patients’ Choice Act proves that America can have universal health care coverage without the government running our health care system.”

Nunes stated, “The American people deserve a health care system that is centered on their individual needs. Our bill will allow us to achieve this goal, while improving health outcomes, lowering cost and guaranteeing access to health care for every single American.”

Watch the press conference here
Click here to view the entire bill text
Click here for the comprehensive summary.
Click here for the brief summary.
Click here for answers to common questions and myths.
Click here for a section-by-section summary.
Click here to read the Individual Auto-Enrollement Summary.
Gingrich Statement on the Patients’ Choice Act
Read the sponsor's editorial on PCA 2009.
Read the Americans for Tax Reform's letter.
Coburn discusses health care on C-Span's Washington Journal

​

Judd Gregg: Op-Ed Contributor: Health reform possible without growing government

The GOP's Health-Care Alternative

 

[Industrialsize]

I've seen that already and a health care plan it AIN'T, it's a series or tired Republican talking points that were voted out of office in November............"using choice and competition rather than rationing and restrictions to contain costs;"............Good grief, it's the "rationing boogeyman" meant to scare us all into opposing real health care reform. I also believe it contains a @ 5,000 dollar tax credit for families to "purchase" health insurance on their own. You notice that purchase is in quotes. The average bill for health insurance for a family is 12,000 dollars.

 

[Trinity]

I've seen that already and a health care plan it AIN'T, it's a series or tired Republican talking points that were voted out of office in November............"using choice and competition rather than rationing and restrictions to contain costs;"............Good grief, it's the "rationing boogeyman" meant to scare us all into opposing real health care reform. I also believe it contains a @ 5,000 dollar tax credit for families to "purchase" health insurance on their own. You notice that purchase is in quotes. The average bill for health insurance for a family is 12,000 dollars.

lol. You contradict yourself and cease to make sense.

All the alternatives are full plans with costs and ways to pay for them. Perhaps you should click on the links and read.

Support for Obama's plan is slipping in the polls as I previously posted. You seem to think he had a mandate on healthcare, but what People wanted is healthcare system that will work and give them quality care not any bill forced through hastily just so Obama and Democrats can claim they passed healthcare reform that ends up costing families more and giving them far less quality care.