bigot co-workers

transformer_99

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whatever. the problem isn't him not accepting the gay people. like i said, it's his right to not agree with the lifestyle. but to deny them service, when it's his fuckin job, is fuckin wrong to the max. he's being paid to be a service clerk, not to be some judgemental bastard.

Don't get me wrong, but what exactly do you think this will escalate to ? It's no Imus story, not like Al Sharpton's going to come out and boycott the place. Discrimination is a way of life in this world, those that won't tolerate it will be the first to discriminate and they'll play the card that they were discriminated against as the reason for their behavior. The other fellow, well, he went the extra yard and made sure the girl/someone else served them, what's the big deal. There are things I say "no" to in my job just the same, because if I listen to who is trying to get me to do it, they feel it's my job, but in reality, not because it's discrimination, but because someone else is looking for me to automate the job and thus take full accountability and responsibility for what they get paid to do for that instance and going forward. Stick around long enough in this world and you'll find there are those that will saddle you with more responsibility than they pay you for, take the credit for it and self promote your accomplishments as their own.

I understand your point, but your co-worker has points built up in the system, he comes in as he pleases to a certain extent, because he paved that road with extra effort elsewhere. You call it brown-nosing, he calls it networking. You call it discrimination, he'll call it delegating or even declining the opportunity so that one that is better able to serve the customer provides better customer service. In the end he'll probably spin it to get a promotion out of this ? Realize Teflon suits when you see them. He can always spin you and any co-workers collusion as an attempt to sabotage his standing, one that he has worked hard for by doing other tasks and jobs ? Could it be that you or any other co-workers might be jealous of his favored status ? If the customers aren't complaining to management, what makes you think taking this up is going to have any legs ? That is to say, if those wronged aren't pursuing or demanding satisfaction, did it even happen ? Bottom line, do you have anything other than what the one customer said to you ? Anything in writing ? I don't mean to be callous, but that's what anyone that gets involved legally would ask.
 

Duchess_athena

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He is no Christian if he was he would know it is not his job to judge others he is suppose to love and except people for who they are. I am a Christian myself and do not go around judging others on what they chose to do in there life. I wont tolerate people doing it to me so why should I do it to others. I am sorry you had to be witness to such a anrrow minded indvidual and hope it does not hurt your job in anyway.
 

jfrsndvs

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that is one thing that I would be very careful of doing something like that, that could backfire real quick, these days it sure doesn't take a whole lot to be accused of sexual harrassment.


In addition to the other good advice about your boss & discrimination laws, I would also think about having a little fun with this guy at his personal expense.

Why don't you say to him in an off moment, "It's a shame you are so worried about being gay."

When he freaks out, you can quickly apologize and say how sorry you are for getting him wrong. Say that two or three times until he believes you. Then tell him you just assumed he was gay because of the way he treated gays in the store. Straight guys usually don't have to put them down quite as much, because they are not very threatened by them.

Then just leave it at that if you can, with a kind of open curiosity about why he is so upset if in fact he is straight. Practice this little maneuver until you get the moves down pat. If you can deliver it in an off-hand, innocent, obvious way, as though it is a purely spontaneous, obvious thought, it can be very effective.

Although he might not want to be your buddy afterwards.

But report back here what happens!
 

ledroit

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Bad idea. If this guy is a sycophant and as much of a homophobe as Surferboy says he is, I guarantee he'll report sexual harrassment. Always give people just enough rope to hang themselves.

There is no sexual harrassment unless you are trying to get someone to have sex or be sexual. This is not about that at all.

Instead, it is calling this pompous guy's bluff. His reaction to gays means he is not as smart as he thinks he is. But you do have to be serious and sincere to pull off what I propose. I know from experience that it works, and how effective it can be how it can be with arrogant people.

I also suspect that what is most annoying about this guy is his arrogance.
 

jfrsndvs

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but you are forgetting that this kid seems to be the type who would make up some shit, this kid is not to be trusted at all in my opinion, he also seems to be the type that is trying to get as many brownie points as possible, and he will go to any extreme to get those points, I have seen way too many like that, he needs to be stopped in his tracks. going to the boss is the first step in this matter.


There is no sexual harrassment unless you are trying to get someone to have sex or be sexual. This is not about that at all.
 

ledroit

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Surfer Boy I know you are not a practicing Christian.

?? Freddie, I am not sure where you are coming from, but to me, this seems like a bizarre thing to say. It's confusing. Why open a can of worms about what a "practicing Christian" is? The sentence itself to me seems presumptuous. Sorry to say. In my experience, that kind of claim leads to only one thing: an endless battle about who is the ultimate authority on what a "practicing Christian" is. It's like arguing about who the best baseball player is, but without stats.

I think the better advice, since attacks on gays are about assumptions (not "religion") is to engage in a little intellectual jiu-jitsu and think about how to undercut this classic opening move. This guy is making a claim that leaves him wide open for the right attack. If you accept this moron's claim that his motives are religious, he wins--pure and simple. Invoking religion when you are attacking someone is the oldest trick in the book.

But I do agree that fighting with ideas is just as risky as any other kind of fighting.

If you want to counter and undercut somebody's arrogance (esp if they try to confuse it with religion), you had better know your stuff and practice some street smarts first. Some people like that kind of exposed fighting more than others. But it's risky to go into any fight at all without practicing the moves first on your own. And even riskier to get distracted and sidetracked by "religious" claims, in my opinion.
 

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Him being a SUCK up will be a huge problem if you go to the Boss about it. The boss will be looking at you even more so, and also you will have Trouble with the 17 year old once you talk to the boss about him. The Girl you said that rung up the guys, was she also angry like you? If not, then once you talk to th boss, she will also be NOT on your side.
I wish I could say someting to make you feel better, but it looks like once you say something about the kid, they will all be for him and NOT you. Just know, him being 17, he will LEARN his lession ONE of these days. He is just digging himself a DEEPER hole. The LORD does not like that either. I hope nothing too bad happens to him, but, he will get his in the future.
 

transformer_99

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ledroit and jfrsndvs have it exactly right, you have to be equally subversive and underhanded to get what you want accomplished. The backfire is exactly what can easily occur devoid of a written customer complaint lodged with the company. With a formal written complaint, you are verifying that it happened as witness and then management will do a little more than slap his wrists with a verbal warning or whatever. Approach it this way with no formal written complaint and a first time offense that simply is a couple of co-workers at best reporting inappropriate behavior, you'll tip him off on what your intentions are and he'll be more covert with his tactics. Maybe with a little pull that he has over your position, he might fabricate similar on your actions in handling customer service and report you just the same ?

I had to deal with a similar situation just today, there are a couple of employees (and you would be right if you assumed they are "people of color") that outright call me a "racist bastard", whenever they feel an opportunity to ruin my credibility and self promote themselves. Well one of them, a woman, tried to corner me in a discussion of a potential new hire in front of a manager, she even called me "racist bastard" in that managers presence. We were discussing a new hire that may happen. The woman asked if it was a woman. I responded, according to the candidate, he's a Haitian gentleman. That's when she tried her little twist on the race card, asking why it had to be a "Haitian man", "why it wasn't simply just a man ?" I turned it back around and said, well, you assumed and hoped it was a woman by your line of inquiry just the same, would that make you a "sexist womenist" ? You really have to be careful with some people. In this world there are all sorts that will try to eliminate you any way they can in the business world, real or a falsely accused perception, she put it out there. See what this woman doesn't understand, those I work with know me well enough, and where I live. I'm more ghetto than she's ever been in her life. Simply put, she wouldn't live in the same neighborhood I live in.
 

Nitrofiend

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No, no, no, no, no. Let it go, he will hang himself. You are not in the position to make the calls. Go in, do your job, make your money, and get out. Things will likely get a lot worse for you if you make a stink about it. I speak on behalf of my own experience and many others I've encountered who've seen the same.
 

ledroit

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but you are forgetting that this kid seems to be the type who would make up some shit, this kid is not to be trusted at all in my opinion, he also seems to be the type that is trying to get as many brownie points as possible, and he will go to any extreme to get those points, I have seen way too many like that, he needs to be stopped in his tracks. going to the boss is the first step in this matter.​


I don't know the guy--but if the main thing for this guy is kissing ass, then I would agree with you. The better thing to do in that case is walk away.

I guess I thought there was some kind of sincerity there if surferboy thought he was smart. But if this jerk is only interested in sucking up to his boss (again not the kind of thing a real guy with confidence typically does) it is better to walk away and leave them alone. You can only win with someone if they want to play a fair game, and it is a game you are also interested in playing.​
 

IntoxicatingToxin

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Okay. I'm sure I'll only be repeating what others have said, but I'm going to say it anyway. This guy is definitely an "asstard"... (I like that word, by the way). I would surely tell the boss, and if he did nothing, I'd go higher than him. I don't know what the bible says. But I can't imagine God would want his children hating their brothers and sisters, period.
 

Freddie53

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?? Freddie, I am not sure where you are coming from, but to me, this seems like a bizarre thing to say. It's confusing. Why open a can of worms about what a "practicing Christian" is? The sentence itself to me seems presumptuous. Sorry to say. In my experience, that kind of claim leads to only one thing: an endless battle about who is the ultimate authority on what a "practicing Christian" is. It's like arguing about who the best baseball player is, but without stats.
Surferboy is Budhist. In the past he has pointed out his disdain for most people who call themselves Christian. I should have instead said, Surferboy, I know you are Budhist and may not know all the teaching of Jesus." My point of the post was to smply point out what I believe Jesus taught about discrmination. And that Jesus went to those that were considered by society, the bad people. And in my opinion many people who call themselves Christians don't understand some of what Jesus said.

As for the boy, I can say that he doesn't understand some of what Jesus taught. I am not going to say he is not a Christian. That is not for me to judge.
 

transformer_99

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I don't know the guy--but if the main thing for this guy is kissing ass, then I would agree with you. The better thing to do in that case is walk away.

I guess I thought there was some kind of sincerity there if surferboy thought he was smart. But if this jerk is only interested in sucking up to his boss (again not the kind of thing a real guy with confidence typically does) it is better to walk away and leave them alone. You can only win with someone if they want to play a fair game, and it is a game you are also interested in playing.

And that is a perception too, "sucking up" that is. If employee "x" offers to be there when inventory arrives after hours and offers to stock shelves in addition to his clerk duties, is he not trying to make a few extra bucks earning it the old fashioned way and being a company man working for it ? What is the real situation here ? How is it going to be perceived. The manager might be more apt to overlook running a few minutes late for an employee that is going the extra effort to make the place run a little smoother on several fronts as opposed to only being interested in the position in which they were hired into. Want that favored status, work a few of those stock shifts yourself and get equal footing in that regard, you network, build a repoire with your manager, make a few extra bucks in the process. Expressing an interest in learning all phases of the operation, that's "management candidate" written all over the effort. Someone has to be retail manager, if you have aspirations with this company in that regard, putting out the effort goes a lot further than complaining about someone that has already shown that level of interest.
 

ledroit

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lThe backfire is exactly what can easily occur devoid of a written customer complaint lodged with the company. With a formal written complaint, you are verifying that it happened as witness and then management will do a little more than slap his wrists with a verbal warning or whatever. Approach it this way with no formal written complaint and a first time offense that simply is a couple of co-workers at best reporting inappropriate behavior, you'll tip him off on what your intentions are and he'll be more covert with his tactics.

Transformer, this is a very good point. I am thinking more of one to one encounters, and I'm pretty good at those fights. But you are right about getting something in writing, and going together with co-workers. There is safety in numbers.

I like the parallel you make with racist accusations too. Racism is still real, but there are plenty of people who know how to use race or religion to get away with murder. It is very tricky to deal with those things in the work place. You have got the right political response, which is to do things in a group and by the book, with written documentation.

For me, it is also the personal encounter that is important. If somebody tries to attack me and hide behind race or religion or politics of some sort, I want to find some memorable way to expose the assumption that he or she thinks is what empowers them to act like an idiot. If I can cut to that, it reminds me of the principles in martial arts. You learn how to side step and let the attacker's momentum go right by you, but then you turn and use the momentum of the attack against them and to your own advantage. I think it's a healthy thing to appeal to the group and to policies and law to protect yourself in a work place. But it is a healthy thing for me at least also to figure out for myself how I am going to respond, one on one, to someone who attacks me. I like to undercut the reasons they feel entitled to attack me in the first place.

I also once had a terrible secretary attack me for criticizing her, and she said it was because I was racist. I told her, "You probably think that because of the way I look. Most people think that I am white because of my skin color. But I'm not. I just don't have much pigment."

And with that, I turned and walked away. She did not know what to think, and we never talked about it later, but she also never tried the racist trick again with me. That is something I could not have done with a group or documentation. But I was not her employer either.

Actually, my ancestors were french-irish, mostly, but I think the whole race/color thing is completely bogus, except for the way people still use skin color to politicize people. So what I was doing was reminding her that "being white" is a state of mind, as was her assumption that my appearance alone is enough to make me "white." But in this case, she also knew I was a hard worker and was not playing games, and she knew that she was slacking off, and trying to play a game with me. That helped quite a bit.
 

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Because there are still no widepread legal protections, or discriminatory precedents, for predudicial treatment towards gays, especially given the state you are in, this will likely backfire on you if you report it. Now, a way you CAN work it, is to report it to the local GLAAD group, or to the ACLU. THe best way that this can be resolved, is for the local gay community to become aware of it, and bring it to the attention of the public. Have them picket the store, specifically singling this kid out. I promise you that the store will NOT want that kind of publicity. They will likely let him go, apologetically, rather than have the negative publicity continue, which will drive away customers. A 17 year old is "expendable" in manegments eyes, profits are not. THis way, you stay out of it, yet still accomplish the purpose of removing him from a positon where he is allowed to publically discriminate. THat's my advice, anyway.
 

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Realize Teflon suits when you see them. He can always spin you and any co-workers collusion as an attempt to sabotage his standing, one that he has worked hard for by doing other tasks and jobs ? Could it be that you or any other co-workers might be jealous of his favored status ? If the customers aren't complaining to management, what makes you think taking this up is going to have any legs ? That is to say, if those wronged aren't pursuing or demanding satisfaction, did it even happen ? Bottom line, do you have anything other than what the one customer said to you ? Anything in writing ? I don't mean to be callous, but that's what anyone that gets involved legally would ask.

The customer did complain -- he complained to Surferboy. Even so, had the customer not complained, there is yet another issue that must be dealt with. Surferboy witnessed, first-hand, the sexually-based discrimination and it is without a doubt his right to report the other employee.

Furthermore, taking Surferboy's first-hand account into consideration, it increases the validity of the customer's personal complaint, which was that Drew (the employee in question) "started to laugh at them" when the initially walked in. And while I'll agree that that's not the most heinous crime, it still serves to foster an unhealthy and unnerving work-environment (especially so in this case, considering the fact that Surferboy is a gay man.)

To take it step further, Drew requested that Rachel (another employee) complete the task that he's paid to do. As if that wasn't a problem within itself, Drew's request more than likely caused Rachel not to tend to the things she normally would tend to. Pragmatically speaking, it more than likely only took Rachel a few minutes to ring the customer(s) up, but, if this behavior isn't nipped-in-the-bud, now, then who's to say where it will end? Drew could have a field day with passing off his responsibilities to other employees because of the some personally held conviction -- worse yet, one that shouldn't interfere with his professional life.


Drew might be a valuable employee, but that doesn’t give him a pass on work-place discrimination. Even if Surferboy and Rachel are jealous of the praises he receives, that alone doesn’t give the employer the right to ignore the white elephant in the room.

 

transformer_99

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Transformer, this is a very good point. I am thinking more of one to one encounters, and I'm pretty good at those fights. But you are right about getting something in writing, and going together with co-workers. There is safety in numbers.

I like the parallel you make with racist accusations too. Racism is still real, but there are plenty of people who know how to use race or religion to get away with murder. It is very tricky to deal with those things in the work place. You have got the right political response, which is to do things in a group and by the book, with written documentation.

For me, it is also the personal encounter that is important. If somebody tries to attack me and hide behind race or religion or politics of some sort, I want to find some memorable way to expose the assumption that he or she thinks is what empowers them to act like an idiot. If I can cut to that, it reminds me of the principles in martial arts. You learn how to side step and let the attacker's momentum go right by you, but then you turn and use the momentum of the attack against them and to your own advantage. I think it's a healthy thing to appeal to the group and to policies and law to protect yourself in a work place. But it is a healthy thing for me at least also to figure out for myself how I am going to respond, one on one, to someone who attacks me. I like to undercut the reasons they feel entitled to attack me in the first place.

I also once had a terrible secretary attack me for criticizing her, and she said it was because I was racist. I told her, "You probably think that because of the way I look. Most people think that I am white because of my skin color. But I'm not. I just don't have much pigment."

And with that, I turned and walked away. She did not know what to think, and we never talked about it later, but she also never tried the racist trick again with me. That is something I could not have done with a group or documentation. But I was not her employer either.

Actually, my ancestors were french-irish, mostly, but I think the whole race/color thing is completely bogus, except for the way people still use skin color to politicize people. So what I was doing was reminding her that "being white" is a state of mind, as was her assumption that my appearance alone is enough to make me "white." But in this case, she also knew I was a hard worker and was not playing games, and she knew that she was slacking off, and trying to play a game with me. That helped quite a bit.

Exactly, the whole point of her efforts was to plant the notion of it. At the very least those that are trying to gain advantage by planting it probably feel they are precluding me from supervisory and managerial consideration later on down the road. What sucks about it, this woman spares no effort to show up in my cubicle looking for a solution on how to make her job easier, how can I do it more efficiently for her. She's slack in my book, her skills and experience are lacking in her youth, but to her credit, she is cunning and deviously sly. And aside from the career sabotage, she'll play along like we're best of friends in a one on one situation. The other guy who started the nonsense, walks in on the occasional tutoring session where she's trying to cultivate knowledge without sweating the details herself and doing the footwork that most of us do after hours. He declares in jealousy, that he sees how it really works, that she's getting me to help her, if not outright doing the job for her. So it's really a competition between the two of them to see who can get me to do something for them, their work.

After 6 months or so each in their new positions, to be quite honest, I'm very weary and tired of running with lead shoes, he's my right lead shoe and her the left. I really look to avoid either of them. The other day I walked by her office, she called out and I simply told her that I'd have to get back with her, that I was on my way to a meeting where I was already involved on another issue. Find a way to be busy, somewhere else, the bathroom is a safe place too when it's the opposite gender ! It's sad you have to avoid some people, but in this life you do what you have to and I don't regret it when I swim with sharks. :wink: :cool: :biggrin1:
 

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The other fellow, well, he went the extra yard and made sure the girl/someone else served them, what's the big deal.

it isa big deal. we're not allowed to discriminate against customers. one employee got in trouble for not serving a druggie that came in with bleeding track marks. she told our boss that she shouldn't have to deal with someone who has open wounds, especially caused by drug use. she said she didn't wanna catch some gnarly disease. and she got sent hom for the day for discriminating against a customer.

even so, it goes beyond his personal beliefs. like i've said, he discriminated. it's wrong. it's one thing if he had discriminated against someone on the street. i wouldn't give a shit. but it's his job to serve people. and i'm not making this into an imus thing. yer the one who's wrongfully assuming that.
 

GoneA

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it's one thing if he had discriminated against someone on the street. i wouldn't give a shit.

I would give a shit if it were someone on the street. However, in that instance it would be a bit more personalized. I'd know to discontinue being his friend.
 

surferboy

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There is no sexual harrassment unless you are trying to get someone to have sex or be sexual. This is not about that at all.

well, i dunno about in the general sense of "sexual harrassment," but doing that to him, according to the company, constitutes sexual harrassment. we all had to watch this lame ass video, and there was a situtation similar to that.

There is no sexual harrassment unless you are trying to get someone to have sex or be sexual. This is not about that at all.

oh no, as freddie said, i am a buddhist. however, before becoming a buddhist, i did look into a lot of different religions, so, contrary to what he said, i do know a bit about christianity. and, though it isn't the same religion, i do come from a catholic family.


Even if Surferboy and Rachel are jealous of the praises he receives,

no, we're not jealous of the praise he receives. he receives this praise from only one if the managers. even so, i'd rather be praised for a job well done, not sucking up and being all "oh, i'll stay with you until 3 in the morning to help with the truck!"



I would give a shit if it were someone on the street. However, in that instance it would be a bit more personalized. I'd know to discontinue being his friend.

yah, that didn't come out the way i meant it to. of course i'd give a shit. but like, you really can't reprimand someone on the street for being an asstard.