bigot co-workers

[deepdick]

Hmmm, yet another story of a person refusing service based on personal beliefs. I've heard of pharamasists refusing to dispense medicine prescribed by a doctor, taxi drivers refusing rides to people carrying alcohol, others I'm sure. Now this. OK, it's a personal statement, albeit a bigoted one. It's ugly.

I guess I would admire this choice they make if it were for a cause I believed in, like boycotting a polluter or refusing to eat at a restaurant that refuses to hire based on <insert here>. But that does not mean I'm failing to do my job as a consumer - I'm making a choice. Failing to do your job as a service provider reflects on the institution. I'd want to know if that is what the ownership stood for, and if not, can their ass.

 

[transformer_99]

transformer, of course wanting to help with the truck isn't looked down on. but he's fuckin 17, and it's fuckin illegal. he shouldn't be working past 11 because it's against the law.

Unless the time worked past 11 PM is on the weekend.

"http://blog.laborlawcenter.com/2006/03/18/florida-child-labor-laws/"

"http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0450/ch0450.htm"

2) Minors 16 and 17 years of age shall not be employed, permitted, or suffered to work before 6:30 a.m. or after 11:00 p.m. or for more than 8 hours in any one day when school is scheduled the following day. When school is in session, minors 16 and 17 years of age shall not work more than 30 hours in any one week. On any school day, minors 16 and 17 years of age who are not enrolled in a career education program shall not be gainfully employed during school hours.

Other exceptions ?

(5) The provisions of subsections (1)-(4) shall not apply to:
(a) Minors 16 and 17 years of age who have graduated from high school or received a high school equivalency diploma.
(b) Minors who are within the compulsory school attendance age limit who hold a valid certificate of exemption issued by the school superintendent or his or her designee pursuant to the provisions of s. 1003.21(3).
(c) Minors enrolled in a public educational institution who qualify on a hardship basis such as economic necessity or family emergency. Such determination shall be made by the school superintendent or his or her designee, and a waiver of hours shall be issued to the minor and the employer. The form and contents thereof shall be prescribed by the department.
(d) Children in domestic service in private homes, children employed by their parents, or pages in the Florida Legislature.
(6) The presence of any minor in any place of employment during working hours shall be prima facie evidence of his or her employment therein.
History.--s. 1, ch. 28240, 1953; s. 24, ch. 57-1; s. 6, ch. 57-224; s. 6, ch. 61-182; ss. 17, 35, ch. 69-106; s. 1, ch. 73-283; s. 2, ch. 75-195; s. 6, ch. 81-192; s. 1, ch. 86-13; s. 12, ch. 91-147; s. 170, ch. 97-103; s. 137, ch. 2000-165; s. 1009, ch. 2002-387; s. 81, ch. 2005-2.
450.095 Waivers.--In extenuating circumstances when it clearly appears to be in the best interest of the child, the department may grant a waiver of the restrictions imposed by the Child Labor Law on the employment of a child. Such waivers shall be granted upon a case-by-case basis and shall be based upon such factors as the department, by rule, establishes as determinative of whether such waiver is in the best interest of a child.

My post isn't intended to be argumentative, rather informative. There are exceptions and yes the laws are there, but perhaps the waivers and other paperwork is in order if this after 11 PM shift is a weekday, if it's on the weekend, you are under the false assumption that working that shift is illegal. If minor has a GED or already graduated, after 11 PM is perfectly legal per Florida statute. Being an October baby myself, when I graduated HS, I was still 17 for another 4+ months. Late December birthdates could conceivably work close to 6+ months under the age of 18.

Lastly, the State of Florida has several accelerated graduation options for students, there might be a combination of extenuating circumstances and facts that you or others may not be aware of ?

"http://www.firn.edu/doe/commhome/newgrad/new-grad.htm"

 

[Kevbo]

Look, everyone will have a subjective response to this, because (a dangerous thing to say here, but I'll say it) the acceptability of the homosexual lifestyle is far from settled in this country. I'm a Christian and I can tell you that some Christians find "flaming" behavior and obvious transsexuality very unsettling. (The merits of this can and should be debated elsewhere.) You may argue that Christianity should be more accepting of "alternate lifestyles", but everybody draws the line somewhere. For many Christians, the fact that homosexuality is roundly condemned in both the Old and New Testaments, with the closest "positive" example being the open-to-interpretation tale of David and Jonathan, gives them most of the Scriptural endorsement they need for the discomfort they feel.

Thought experiment: let's say 3 known pedophiles, or 3 known animal sodomists, walked into your store and demanded service. Are you saying that you wouldn't have at least some issue with dealing with them? Because the revulsion you (probably?) feel is akin to how some Christians feel near flaming homosexuality. Unfair? Stupid? Unenlightened? Perhaps, IYO. But pretty much the way things are.

And, if you're wondering, I know and am friends with some homo/bisexuals, and I don't get in their faces or witness to them. But they know I'm uncomfortable with their lifestyles and understand. I hope the significant gay population here will take my comments above in the context of the original scenario.

Kevin

 

[B_spiker067]

Thought experiment: let's say 3 known pedophiles, or 3 known animal sodomists, walked into your store and demanded service.

You ever notice that there is a difference in the choice of words and their connotations; such as refused and declined. Same here with demand and request.

I won't be manipulated by the word choice of others. I will manipulate them by the choice of mine.

In that vein, if three 'beastialists', pedophiles, or whatever walked into my store and I hypothetically was Christian I would attempt to minister to them not stone them. You'd probably find they wouldn't come back often and you would just be practicing free speech not bigotry. But then you'd actually have to know what a Christian is and not just label yourself one.

 

[NCbear]

Kevbo,

Let's compare apples to apples, instead of to cucumbers or raspberries or even walnuts. If you did that, your points might be more credible.

Thanks,

NCbear (who wonders why homosexuals are never compared with who we are and have been throughout the centuries: for example, mathematical geniuses who successfully cracked the Nazi code in WWII, successful generals and warriors from the time of Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar up to the present, and leaders in every conceivable sport, field of study, and type of employment, except the Straight Male Club)

 

[surferboy]

Thought experiment: let's say 3 known pedophiles, or 3 known animal sodomists, walked into your store and demanded service. Are you saying that you wouldn't have at least some issue with dealing with them? Because the revulsion you (probably?) feel is akin to how some Christians feel near flaming homosexuality. Unfair? Stupid? Unenlightened? Perhaps, IYO. But pretty much the way things are.

honestly, yes, i would serve them. would i like it? fuck no. but i am still going to do my job.


i did go to my boss today. he said it was fine because it was "his religion." i was all "so, according to you, i can freely discriminate based on my personal beliefs?" and he said "no, because his was a religious belief" and i was all "religion is a personal belief! what about adulterors? i know that goes against his religion, but i'm shure he's rung them up hundreds of times!"

he was all "again, i'm gonna allow it because it's his religion, end of argument" so like, i'm not even taking this to his boss. i'm going to those gay activist groups.

 

[NCbear]

I know, surferboy, I know. Protecting someone's religious beliefs are apparently the most important thing in our culture, if they happen to be Christian (preferably at least Protestant, if not evangelical), heterosexual, middle-class, and white.

Wonder what will happen when they get to heaven to meet God and find out She's a poor Black dyke with AIDS in a wheelchair? Hmmm.

NCbear (who thinks it would be nice to be able to see divinity in all people)

 

[auncut10in]

You guys give much better advice than I would given and are much more patient that I would have been. I would have been tempted to tell the kid I couldn't work with biggots like him and he will have to leave the store. I would remind him that Christ did not say a word about gays in any of his sermons, but he did say a lot about people who treat other people badly and it was not for them to judge. He is no christain. These biggots that hide behind their scriptures for bad behavior really piss me off.

 

[transformer_99]

honestly, yes, i would serve them. would i like it? fuck no. but i am still going to do my job.


i did go to my boss today. he said it was fine because it was "his religion." i was all "so, according to you, i can freely discriminate based on my personal beliefs?" and he said "no, because his was a religious belief" and i was all "religion is a personal belief! what about adulterors? i know that goes against his religion, but i'm shure he's rung them up hundreds of times!"

he was all "again, i'm gonna allow it because it's his religion, end of argument" so like, i'm not even taking this to his boss. i'm going to those gay activist groups.

At the time it happened, rather than letting it pass, you should have encouraged the customers to take it up with the manager, even offered to accompany them and introduce the issue as that the customers approached you with it over poor service and public ridicule and humiliation. Now, then you would have had complaining customers and you were taking an issue that required managerial intervention at that point in time. Your approach was at least a day late and simply your word about what happened. See once the customers had gotten that response, then it would have been up to them to accept or reject the offered explanation, perhaps even taken it to corporate headquarter levels or a Better Business Bureau complaint status. You basically got into an argument with a manager ultimately over religion and the other employee's right to that process, even though you initially approached it as a customer service issue. In the end, you wound up getting into a pissing contest with a manager over his judgement call devoid of irate customers. You'll lose that one everytime and in so doing, you are now on the radar screen for that. When a customer brings up an issue of that magnitude again, you owe it to that customer to acknowledge their complaint and then put it out there for resolution at the appropriate levels of management when something can be done about it. Waiting the day or so to bring it up, it's like I said before, everyone had moved on from the moment except you.

I am not trying to make you feel bad, but learn from this and deal with issues in the moment. A day afterwards, it's over and done with, since no customers that were directly involved and injured/insulted was there to demand their pound of flesh for satisfaction, it was essentially over and done with. Had the manager been as insensitive as your co-worker, the customers would have even more to complain about at a higher level beyond department or store manager of a national/regional chain. But at that point, it was an irate customers call to make to escalate and pursue. If people don't stand up for themselves or their rights in the first place, the issue has no legs to escalate into something bigger. A customer wouldn't have to even have escalated it to an issue of whether anyone was perceived as gay or not, it was about being treated rudely and the resultant poor service, but again, that would be the customer complaining, not you personally.

 

[transformer_99]

You guys give much better advice than I would given and are much more patient that I would have been. I would have been tempted to tell the kid I couldn't work with biggots like him and he will have to leave the store. I would remind him that Christ did not say a word about gays in any of his sermons, but he did say a lot about people who treat other people badly and it was not for them to judge. He is no christain. These biggots that hide behind their scriptures for bad behavior really piss me off.

It's not patience that I'm preaching, it's leveraging the issue at the right moment for the right reasons. This was poor service and when I've received similar for whatever reasons, I've found that I was really the only one that could demand satisfaction. I have yet to receive poor service from a place and have them track me down a day later to apologize over it when I didn't escalate it to the manager or even corporate hq level. Trust me, I experienced poor service at a restaurant recently. I didn't complain to the employee guilty of it, I didn't complain to the manager. I made careful note of who the server was, paid my bill to the penny for product and taxes, didn't tip even a single penny. I went home later that day, looked up the corporate website and wrote a detailed complaint of what happened. And within 24 hours, it was escalated to a Regional VP. That was simply over not being served a beverage refill and being completely ignored as I tried to flag anyone working there to come to our table. When I finally returned as a customer to that restaurant, I did notice that when my glass was empty, I didn't even have to ask for a refill. And btw, that chain also sent me $ 30 complimentary card redeemable for an entirely free meal to that amount. As an employee, unless it's my own business/company, I don't care what any other employee does, but as a consumer/customer, give me poor service and I'll put that in someone else's hands that gets a bigger piece of the pie and has invested in the business. You'll see someone put "foot to @ss" in a hurry.

 

[GoneA]

NCbear:

Please marry me.

Thank you,

GoneA (who often wonders why he hadn't proposed earlier.) :tongue:

 

[rubberwilli]

If Rachel will go along with it I would still put it in writing to the district manager. Cite your video and sexual harassment training, pull out the employee policy manual, cite specific policies and see what happens.

And if your boss truly refuses to do anything, ask for a transfer, find another Walgreens that you can go work at or go to the competition, CVS, REVCO or who ever you have down there. Then engage the GLBT rights groups against Walgreens. Protect your ass as well, because causing waves is a sure fire end of an "at will employment" situation.

(This reminds me, I dated a CVS manager for several months and trust me he belongs on this site! Woof...he was a huge hung hottie! Bad break up but a hot hot hottie! But I digress...again...)

 

[surferboy]

i did talk to the customers, and they told me to go to my manager about it. i wish they would have like, wirtten something down or whatever, and after the treatment they received, i doubt they'll be coming back to the store.

what's an "at will employment" sitch? are you saying i can get fired?

 

[trufitjock]

id love to come into your store and start some shit with him.. it could be arranged !!.. im a hard ass... ive worked as a retail manager for many yrs and would never tolerate anything like that from any employee

 

[surferboy]

id love to come into your store and start some shit with him.. it could be arranged !!.. im a hard ass... ive worked as a retail manager for many yrs and would never tolerate anything like that from any employee

are you serious? cause i would totally tell you where my store is if you wanna come and mess with him hehe

 

[Freddie53]

honestly, yes, i would serve them. would i like it? fuck no. but i am still going to do my job.


i did go to my boss today. he said it was fine because it was "his religion." i was all "so, according to you, i can freely discriminate based on my personal beliefs?" and he said "no, because his was a religious belief" and i was all "religion is a personal belief! what about adulterors? i know that goes against his religion, but i'm shure he's rung them up hundreds of times!"

he was all "again, i'm gonna allow it because it's his religion, end of argument" so like, i'm not even taking this to his boss. i'm going to those gay activist groups.

I want even try to stop you on this. Nix. One of the reasons I love you is you stick up for your beliefs and you have a clear and good sense of right and wrong. Keep in mind that it is you that might lose your job. But I believe you would go for principle first and worry about your job second.

I may not understand the Civil Rights Act of 1964. But it is my understanding that public establishments that is open to the public and the public can come into your establishment as you have a PUBLIC instance, may not discriminate. An establishment may have a dress code and a code of behavior while in the establishment. But to refuse service based on a person's color, gender and as I read it PERSONAL BELIEFS is against the law, federal law.

This 17 year old guy is a ASSHOLE. He knows nothing about what Jesus said and stood for. His "church" relies on the study of other people. And I'm sure you can take that to the bank. I've found it to be true EVERY Time. It fucking makes be angry for people to claim to be Christian and go against everything Jesus taught and did.

 

[surferboy]

well, if i;m fired, i can always get unemployment, right?

 

[Male Bonding etc]

well, if i;m fired, i can always get unemployment, right?

Think again! I was fired once, and I assumed unemployment was automatic. It's not. I was a cocky guy, a little innocent about how things work...

Anyway, apologies, I didn't read the whole thread, but I thought HotBulge had a good point back on the first page.

 

[HotBulge]

i did talk to the customers, and they told me to go to my manager about it. i wish they would have like, wirtten something down or whatever, and after the treatment they received, i doubt they'll be coming back to the store.

what's an "at will employment" sitch? are you saying i can get fired?

By "at will employment situation", I think Rubberwilli was referring to a practical concern. You have to be careful about retaliation in the workplace, especially by petty disgruntled bosses. In many cases, an employer can terminate an employee's contract at will, so it would be very tempting for a boss to arbitrarily release you from service even though you've been a model employee.

Two years ago, I had a similar situation. I had been on that particular job for 5 1/2 years. For four of those years, I had glowing annual performance reviews with the same boss. In that last year, however, I had to file a complaint against that boss with HR because I believed that he was behaving in a blatantly discriminatory manner against a colleague who was both foreign and gay. That colleague was constantly upset, and finally after seeing my former boss' discriminatory behavior for 3 years against that colleague, I believed that a stand had to be taken -- on a matter of morality. Well, surprise, surprise, in my last year, my former boss' behavior toward me changed: he became antagonistic and aggressive and nothing I did was satisfactory. I quit a year later b/c of his antagonism. (Within a year of my leaving, 4 other people out of 11 in the department left as well, whereas no one left in the two years prior). So, the unfortunate reality is that "whistle blowers" in the work place do have to be careful for being courageous: their actions aren't easily protected against managers who retaliate.

 

[Male Bonding etc]

Yeah, HotBulge is once again the voice of reason!