Bigotry vs veiled bigotry

[DaveyR]

Which is worse? Veiled bigotry or your good old fashioned common or garden bigotry?

Some background. We had a few problems with my partner's parents when we first got together 23 years ago. We've lived away from the region for the last 20 years and recently moved back. Things between the 4 of us were pretty good until recently. They often visited us abroad for holidays and in Scotland prior to us moving abroad.

We recently announced our civil partnership and it has all kicked off again. His father has stated he is not attending giving some stupid excuse as a reason. His Mother started making excuses for his father but in the process made it very obvious that she is far from accepting and as open minded as we both thought.

My partner is not upset in the least but he is very angry. I'm angry too as I feel like I have been conned over the years. My Partner and his Mother have always had a very on/off relationship. I have always encouraged him to keep in touch and tried to keep things right between them. That won't be happening again.

We've talked a lot in the last couple of days and have decided this has come about because we are living back in the area. His Mother is totally driven by "what other people think". It was easy for her when we didn't live here but not so now we are back.

My parents? Totally fabulous as always. They are really hurt for my partner and have been really helpful towards him with advice.

I suppose there are two parts to my original question now I have laid this all out. Is veiled bigotry worse than in your face bigotry? What do you make of people who put what other people think before important relationships ie their kids?

 

[798686]

That sucks, dude. I think...they come from a different generation, so although that isn't an excuse - it means they have different mental baggage to deal with.

I actually think veiled bigotry is worse - as it's harder to deal with. I think that (on various subjects) once out-and-out bigots have something pointed out to them and really get it, they are much more likely to give their full-support than someone who is scared to say what they think.

I think it's a tuff situation you're in - and the civil partnership ceremony maybe takes a bit of getting their heads round, for some reason. But...if they've been pleasant enuff over the years to a certain degree, then that's something. Might take you a while to regain trust in them tho. :/

Good luck.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Honestly, if someone doesn't like me or has a prejudice towards me I would rather know up front then be lead on or be told in a blanked way. Let me know exactly how you feel so I can respond and act accordingly.

 

[Pendlum]

I would say that veiled is worse because if you find out, it hurts more. And sometimes people wont believe you, or you can't say anything because everyone else doesn't know the person's true feelings. At least in your face is simpler, it's there for everyone to see.

I don't have any real experience with this, so this is just my thoughts on it.

 

[Uslidenme]

sigh, I've had plenty of experience with both in all kinds of ways. I dont' really want to address that though I just wanted to say whatever you do stay out of the middle. Ask his family of choice to be there for him. For his parents its not really about him or you its about the loss of all their dreams. Live your best life and be there for each other. Make it your business to be happy. Let them be unhappy if they want but don't participate in their unhappiness

 

[DaveyR]

That sucks, dude. I think...they come from a different generation, so although that isn't an excuse - it means they have different mental baggage to deal with.

I actually think veiled bigotry is worse - as it's harder to deal with. I think that (on various subjects) once out-and-out bigots have something pointed out to them and really get it, they are much more likely to give their full-support than someone who is scared to say what they think.

I think it's a tuff situation you're in - and the civil partnership ceremony maybe takes a bit of getting their heads round, for some reason. But...if they've been pleasant enuff over the years to a certain degree, then that's something. Might take you a while to regain trust in them tho. :/

Good luck.

I don;t see it as a tough situation now Joll. They will get an invite in the mail and a follow up phone call from me not P. They will be told they are welcome to attend on our terms and that the day is not about them It's our day, our choice and our money. End of and not negotiable.

Let them be unhappy if they want but don't participate in their unhappiness

We both have participated in it up until now. We've drawn in so many times now we actually think back about it. The game is now over.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

It's sort of similar to how my uncle didn't invite my then serious boyf to his wedding some years back when every other member of my family got to bring whichever heterosexual partner they were (even casually) banging at the time. My uncle is all smiles and nicey nicey with me as is his odious wife, these days. I don't see them unless I absolutely have to.

Veiled or not bigotry disgusts me. The pretending to be cool with things part makes it no less or no more offensive to me.


I'm sorry to hear this CS. I hope you have a wonderful day regardless of who does or doesn't turn up.

 

[pleasureboy]

My thing with bigotry is that if you're pussy enough not to be able to get over your issues and decide to take out your own insecurities on others, by God have the balls to do it out in the open and go all the way with it.

I figure if someone has some hatred of someone else there is some hidden reason for it and that if anything maybe (say if they are a homophobe) that the more of us they meet who don't match their misconceptions the better the chance they will get over their issues.

But, if you're a bigot and you smile in public and then dog people when they're not around, then you're just a little bitch and deserve to be treated like one!

 

[AlteredEgo]

My thing with bigotry is that if you're pussy enough not to be able to get over your issues and decide to take out your own insecurities on others, by God have the balls to do it out in the open and go all the way with it.

I figure if someone has some hatred of someone else there is some hidden reason for it and that if anything maybe (say if they are a homophobe) that the more of us they meet who don't match their misconceptions the better the chance they will get over their issues.

But, if you're a bigot and you smile in public and then dog people when they're not around, then you're just a little bitch and deserve to be treated like one!

Pretty much.

 

[guynmn]

Veiled is worse. I want to know who I'm dealing with and not be taken off gaurd. If you have an issue speak up! Don't hide it because your afraid it would make you look bad. Of course, hiding it should be your first clue there is something not acceptable about it. If you truly object and have solid moral or religious reasons, great. Just spill it and I'm cool with your beliefs agree or not. It should flow off your tongue like saying you don't like chocolate ice cream or smoked salmon. Then those are your personal belief just like I have my own personal beliefs.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

My thing with bigotry is that if you're pussy enough not to be able to get over your issues and decide to take out your own insecurities on others, by God have the balls to do it out in the open and go all the way with it.

I figure if someone has some hatred of someone else there is some hidden reason for it and that if anything maybe (say if they are a homophobe) that the more of us they meet who don't match their misconceptions the better the chance they will get over their issues.

But, if you're a bigot and you smile in public and then dog people when they're not around, then you're just a little bitch and deserve to be treated like one!

See I'm not sure CS's partner's parents actually hate anyone, I don't think they're active bigots. I think they (in common with a lot of even the most gay-friendly seeming people) just don't take gay relationships as seriously as straight ones.

They can cope with them and get their heads around gay relationships so long as there's nothing forcing them to view them in the same way they view straight relationships.

Getting married forces people to see your relationship as the same as a heterosexual relationship, and that why even people you think are fine about you being gay can suddenly flip out when you mention gay marriage.

It's passive bigotry which simply refuses to see a gay relationships as equal to their straight counterparts rather than active bigotry which simply sees gays as wrong and inferior fullstop.

 

[scottredleter]

While in a group of white men one day, one started using ugly language to talk about black people. I happened to know that this guy would never use this kind of language in front of black people. I was like, dude... if you're going to talk like that, don't be a pussy about it. Walk right up top Shaq and call him a N******. See where the chips fall.

I was once told by a woman friend that as a white man, I have a real opportunity to confront bigotry that others don't... A lot of times this kind of ugliness only comes up when we are alone and they think they are amongst their 'own' kind'. When it happens it is a very powerful thing to speak up at that point.

The idiot who spits out hatred out of ignorance is much less dangerous of a person than the ones who hold their tongue, but makes racially bigoted choices all day long with clear intent.

It's always the hidden stuff that is more hurtful and harmful.

 

[DaveyR]

See I'm not sure CS's partner's parents actually hate anyone, I don't think they're active bigots. I think they (in common with a lot of even the most gay-friendly seeming people) just don't take gay relationships as seriously as straight ones.

They can cope with them and get their heads around gay relationships so long as there's nothing forcing them to view them in the same way they view straight relationships.

Absolutely spot on Hilaire. It's very much backed up by the fact that we haven't been living anywhere near in the last 20 years until recently. As I said earlier the other aspect is what other people think.

It's passive bigotry which simply refuses to see a gay relationships as equal to their straight counterparts rather than active bigotry which simply sees gays as wrong and inferior fullstop.

Again very true. My other half is one of four. Our relationship is by far longer than the other 3 and far more stable than a couple of them yet is seen as insignificant as far as all the relationships go.

To my mind it makes our civil partnership more necessary to protect us from fuckwits like this. Of course the main reason is because we want to. :smile:

 

[big_tits4big_dicks]

I hate passive aggressive. Just be aggressive. I'm so sorry he has such lame parents, it sounds like your are wonderful. I guess it's a good thing he has such an indifferent relationship with them, then their absence will not be so missed? It breaks my heart to see parents forget that that their child will always be that, no matter what. Best of luck to you guys.

 

[TheRob]

I will say it depends on which is worse
if Vield Bigotry is hidden well enough that no one knows it's there, then standard Bigotry is worse
but if Vield Bigotry is more like a show of not being a Bigot but they are still hurting feelings etc then vield is worse cus it's like they are puttong on airs and I hate that shit
at least the straight out Bigot is upfront about it

 

[NCbear]

While in a group of white men one day, one started using ugly language to talk about black people. I happened to know that this guy would never use this kind of language in front of black people. I was like, dude... if you're going to talk like that, don't be a pussy about it. Walk right up top Shaq and call him a N******. See where the chips fall.

I was once told by a woman friend that as a white man, I have a real opportunity to confront bigotry that others don't... A lot of times this kind of ugliness only comes up when we are alone and they think they are amongst their 'own' kind'. When it happens it is a very powerful thing to speak up at that point.

. . . .

I'm white too, and I'm pissed off every time a racist white person assumes that just because we share a lack of melanin in our skin, that person and I must feel the same way about people who have adequate melanin.

Seriously--and I think I've posted this before, but here goes again--I was in the sauna at my Y one time talking with a colleague from the university where I used to work. He's rather dark-skinned and of African ancestry. He's also a well-spoken, highly-educated psychology professor who at the time held a leadership post at that university. I respect him a great deal.

An overly pierced, even more overly tattooed, lanky redneck who looked like he'd been ridden hard and put away wet far too many times in his life came in and sat down in the sauna while we were talking. When my colleague left to take a shower, do you know what this redneck said to me? "He speaks really well for a black guy."





I thought of letting it go (and telling myself to consider the source ), but then I thought, what the hell? Why should I be quiet? This jackass needs to know what I think of his comment. His asinine views should be challenged.

So I said, "He's a professor at a university. He's the head of the faculty senate there. He's a well-respected leader. Of course he speaks well. Do you have a PhD? Are you well-respected--by anyone?" And then I left while his mouth was open.

I think he knew I was hugely angry with him, because he tried to come up to me in the shower, starting off with "What I meant was . . . ."

I said, "Stop right there. I know what you meant. You expressed your ignorance and racism rather clearly. You can't explain it away now." And then I let my contempt show on my face. He was just smart enough to go away.

The racist redneck doesn't try to talk with me now, when we see each other at the Y. I just meet his eyes, glare at him, and walk on.

But my colleague, whom I respect a great deal, remains well-spoken. For ANY ethnicity or background!

NCbear (who also had the cojones to tell my racist jackass uncle, when I was in my early teens, that his son--my first cousin--didn't fail to make the basketball team because the [white and Native American] coach was anti-white; he didn't make the team because he couldn't play basketball as well as the (black AND white) guys who made the team :biggrin1: ; that comment got around in my mother's extended family, so to this day, he's wary of me at family reunions :tongue:)

 

[Bbucko]

Personally, I'd rather the bigot be straight-forward enough to just express his/her distaste than to passively-aggressively pussy foot around with assumptions and veiled intentions.

Not everyone needs to love me (or even respect me), but life's much simpler when I know who feels what; it's that awkward semi-tolerance that drives me to distraction.

 

[TheRob]

I'm white too, and I'm pissed off every time a racist white person assumes that just because we share a lack of melanin in our skin, that person and I must feel the same way about people who have adequate melanin.

Seriously--and I think I've posted this before, but here goes again--I was in the sauna at my Y one time talking with a colleague from the university where I used to work. He's rather dark-skinned and of African ancestry. He's also a well-spoken, highly-educated psychology professor who at the time held a leadership post at that university. I respect him a great deal.

An overly pierced, even more overly tattooed, lanky redneck who looked like he'd been ridden hard and put away wet far too many times in his life came in and sat down in the sauna while we were talking. When my colleague left to take a shower, do you know what this redneck said to me? "He speaks really well for a black guy."





I thought of letting it go (and telling myself to consider the source ), but then I thought, what the hell? Why should I be quiet? This jackass needs to know what I think of his comment. His asinine views should be challenged.

So I said, "He's a professor at a university. He's the head of the faculty senate there. He's a well-respected leader. Of course he speaks well. Do you have a PhD? Are you well-respected--by anyone?" And then I left while his mouth was open.

I think he knew I was hugely angry with him, because he tried to come up to me in the shower, starting off with "What I meant was . . . ."

I said, "Stop right there. I know what you meant. You expressed your ignorance and racism rather clearly. You can't explain it away now." And then I let my contempt show on my face. He was just smart enough to go away.

The racist redneck doesn't try to talk with me now, when we see each other at the Y. I just meet his eyes, glare at him, and walk on.

But my colleague, whom I respect a great deal, remains well-spoken. For ANY ethnicity or background!

NCbear (who also had the cojones to tell my racist jackass uncle, when I was in my early teens, that his son--my first cousin--didn't fail to make the basketball team because the [white and Native American] coach was anti-white; he didn't make the team because he couldn't play basketball as well as the (black AND white) guys who made the team :biggrin1: ; that comment got around in my mother's extended family, so to this day, he's wary of me at family reunions :tongue:)

frankly your attitude is immature and closeminded
see, people are brainwashed to think that black people won't be able to express themselves well or speak with proper grammer
in fact the 'racist redneck' you despise so much was trying (tho poorly) to compliment your friend, to blamesomeone for a belief they have due to brainwashing is immature and closeminded
which is why I said that

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

frankly your attitude is immature and closeminded
see, people are brainwashed to think that black people won't be able to express themselves well or speak with proper grammer
in fact the 'racist redneck' you despise so much was trying (tho poorly) to compliment your friend, to blamesomeone for a belief they have due to brainwashing is immature and closeminded
which is why I said that

Ordinary people aren't brainwashed in to racism, a tiny percentage of people who are exposed from an early age to extreme ideologies like those of the white supremacist movement might be, but in general that isn't the case. And ignorance isn't an excuse, I've met plenty of people who came from backgrounds were they would have had no or very little exposure to people of colour, or to stay OT- gay people, who are still open minded and show no propensity to make the kinds of unpleasant generalisations by which prejudices operate.

 

[TomCat84]

So is it racism/bigotry when a jovial black dude started telling black jokes to me in the gym the other day? I thought they were funny, personally, and probably would have laughed if he had told jokes about white people. First order of business is being able to laugh at each other.