Bin Laden died of natural causes??

monel

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I just read that Pakistan convicted for treason, a doctor who assisted the US in it's "kill Bin Laden " operation. Apparently he scheduled a mass vaccination program in the area in order to collect dna evidence to determine if it was Bin Laden living in the compound. I don't know if his efforts were successful but his prosecution and conviction sounds to me like Pakistan trying to cover it's embarrassment. If the guy really did help the US, I hope the US does what it can to secure his release.
 

Calboner

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Someone is telling you that the Story reported about Bin Ladens' death is made up... the real story is....

So hey... if they made up a story, why isn't HE making up a story?

How to tell the difference?

EVIDENCE.

Stories are just stories.
This is exactly the point that is missed by people who buy into so-called conspiracy "theories" (I think "conspiracy fantasies" would be a more applicable term, but it would be rather tendentious). Here again is the OP:
should we trust Obama ("For over two decades, bin Laden has been al Qaeda's leader and symbol/../ The death of bin Laden marks the most significant achievement to date in our nation's effort to defeat al Qaeda") or should we deny it: no body=no proof?!..
In this short statement one can recognize two defects of reasoning that are highly characteristic of people who buy into conspiracy fantasies. (Andreaaa does not endorse this particular fantasy, but he treats it as worthy of serious discussion.) First, they fail to grasp that there are degrees of rational warrant for claims. They operate instead with an unrealistic and indeed perverse conception of "proof" as a kind of evidence so compelling that it positively forces even the most intellectually lazy, careless, or obstinate person to accept a conclusion. Of course, by that standard, no "proof" is ever to be found for any claim that is of much interest. In this instance, the OP says, or asks (he adds a question mark), "no body=no proof?" This suggests that the testimony, news reportage, documentation, and so forth, may be dismissed, because they do not constitute "proof" by this unrealistic standard. Instead, the question is reduced to one of "trusting Obama," as if the account of Bin Laden's death in a military action in Abbotabad were just a piece of hearsay supported by nothing but the personal credibility of a politician.

The second characteristic defect in reasoning is that, wherever there is a lack of "proof" (in this special sense) for a given claim, conspiracy-minded people take that to put some competing claim on an equal footing with it. Thus, in the present instance, the lack of "proof," in the given sense, that Bin Laden was killed in Abbotabad is taken to lend color to the claim that he died of natural causes five years ago, as if the two claims were equally worthy of serious consideration.

I find this use of the word "proof" perverse and corrupting. "Proof" is just a word for evidence that is strong enough to allow no reasonable dispute over some proposition. It does not mean evidence that is so strong as to make it impossible to doubt or deny the proposition. It is always possible to invent some scenario in which, contrary to all appearances, some proposition that seems patently true is in fact false ("The birth certificate is a fake, the report of Obama's birth in the Honolulu newspaper in 1961 was a plant," etc.). The possibility of such invention proves nothing, except the rather obvious point that our knowledge of the world around us does not rest on apodictic certainties. In particular, it does not show that claims contrary to well-supported ones are on an equal footing with the latter.

Terminology aside, the main point is that there are degrees of rational warrant for propositions, and when there is a heap of evidence in support of a proposition and very little supporting some contrary one, it is not reasonable to adopt the contrary one.
 
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I thought it was from a severe case of lead poisoning. He drank the water.
 

TOP9X7

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I'm surprised Romney hasn't taken credit for killing BL, single-handed, he put him in a cage on top of his car and drove to the nearest GM plant, poor 'bin' had a BM so Mitt hosed him down with mace.
 

monel

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I'm surprised Romney hasn't taken credit for killing BL, single-handed, he put him in a cage on top of his car and drove to the nearest GM plant, poor 'bin' had a BM so Mitt hosed him down with mace.

Well he has tried to take some credit. When asked by a reporter on the anniversary of the operation whether he would have ordered the Seal team to take out Bin Laden he said he would. "Even Carter would have given that order". A real scumbag reply.
 

MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK

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here is an article:
PressTV - Bin Laden died of natural causes: Former CIA agent
and an older one here:
Former CIA Agent Claims Americans Did Not Kill bin Laden - English pravda.ru

First one is from a Iran site, the other is russian..
Who's this Berkan Iashar? should we trust Obama ("For over two decades, bin Laden has been al Qaeda's leader and symbol/../ The death of bin Laden marks the most significant achievement to date in our nation's effort to defeat al Qaeda") or should we deny it: no body=no proof?!..
Somehow, i think the bullets from the seal teams guns had a very substantial part in it as well.
 

Calboner

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Who knows how he died? There isn't really any evidance to suggest he was shot. He might be alive for all we know.
"There isn't really any evidence"? I wonder what on earth you consider to be "real" evidence. Do you dismiss as "without evidence" all events that you did not personally witness? Or is there something special about this case that leads you to dismiss all the documentation as "not really evidence"? If you re genuinely ignorant of the evidence, here is an obvious place to start acquainting yourself with it:

Death of Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

petite

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Who knows how he died? There isn't really any evidance to suggest he was shot. He might be alive for all we know.

I feel like I'm pointing out the blatantly obvious here. If bin Laden was still alive then he would have put out a video taunting Obama by now. He would have loved an opportunity to embarrass the President of the United States of America.
 

MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK

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I feel like I'm pointing out the blatantly obvious here. If bin Laden was still alive then he would have put out a video taunting Obama by now. He would have loved an opportunity to embarrass the President of the United States of America.
God, I love you and your bluntness when it comes to this.:kiss:
 

Ryan10

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"There isn't really any evidence"? I wonder what on earth you consider to be "real" evidence. Do you dismiss as "without evidence" all events that you did not personally witness? Or is there something special about this case that leads you to dismiss all the documentation as "not really evidence"? If you re genuinely ignorant of the evidence, here is an obvious place to start acquainting yourself with it:

Death of Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why didn't they show DNA or photographic evidance to prove it? We'll just have to take their word for it because I don't think we'll ever know what happend.

I feel like I'm pointing out the blatantly obvious here. If bin Laden was still alive then he would have put out a video taunting Obama by now. He would have loved an opportunity to embarrass the President of the United States of America.

Perhaps he wants people to think he's dead? Who knows. It's naive to believe everything your told by the state.
 

tamati

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In the scheme of things, does it really matter if hes dead or not? Lets work on how to not piss off people so fucking much they feel like their only option left is to turn into terrorists...
 

azbjbilly

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I wouldn't be surprised if Bin Laden died 5 years ago. He probably killed himself when the Bush Administration destroyed the world economy.

bin laden had several goals i forget all of them one was for the u.s. to get out of saudi arabia. that happened. another was to push the price of oil way up to $100 a barrel - i think that was the figure and he wanted to see the u.s. economy collapse. bush would have been his best friend. on 9/11 as all american airplanes were grounded, the extended bin laden family was flown out of the u.s. bin laden was a creation of the CIA, meaning we supplied him with whatever he needed in the 1980s.
 

petite

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Perhaps he wants people to think he's dead? Who knows. It's naive to believe everything your told by the state.

Yeah, and maybe he was in on it! OMG, IT'S A CONSPIRACY! :rolleyes:

The logic I just used didn't rely upon trusting anything "told by the state." It's based upon how much bin Laden hates America. After all, he was trying to destroy it and successfully perpetrated the largest terrorist attack in history upon us. Yet you think he'd resist proving that America was ineffective by failing to kill him? It's illogical.

Face it, if he was alive, he'd delight in releasing a video of himself dancing around with today's newpaper, proving the date and calling Obama a liar. It's so easy for him to prove that he's alive that it's obvious that he's dead.
 
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Calboner

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Why didn't they show DNA or photographic evidance to prove it? We'll just have to take their word for it because I don't think we'll ever know what happend.
Do you seriously expect us to believe that if "they" had shown "DNA or photographic evidance [sic]," people like you would not be saying, "Oh, that photograph is a fake! They could have gotten that DNA ten years ago!"?

Look at the birthers with their mad shifting of goalposts. In conspiratorial thinking, the belief in the conspiracy remains fixed, while the standards of evidence keep shifting to accommodate the belief--just the opposite of what is necessary for making beliefs conform to reality.
Perhaps he wants people to think he's dead? Who knows. It's naive to believe everything your told by the state.
It's naive to think that your ignorance and perversity are superior to common opinion. The death of Bin Laden is attested not only by US sources but by Pakistani ones and by representatives of Al Qaeda itself. To imagine that there is "no evidence" for it requires a bizarre, tail-wags-the-dog epistemology in which only the loan crackpot knows the truth, while all the rest of the world is fooled by invisible, infinitely clever manipulators.