Binary Sexual System? Really?

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Smaccoms, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. Smaccoms

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    I've been reading a book lately called "The Straight State", by Margot Canaday. Its quite interesting. It talks about how over the course of the 20th century, the American binary sexual system (and/or homophobia) developed due to the Federal Government. Has anyone else read it, what do you think?

    But anyway, the binary system being the straight-or-gay idea. There must be a million threads on this already, but I wanted to mention the book (look up) (and start a new thread--I love starting a new thread). People do seem so obsessed with announcing a one or the other type philosophy, but that's so unnatural, don't you think? The percentage system gives you more flexibility, but it's not completely accurate is it? I personally believe in "regions" (different regions along the "sexual spectrum"). I lean toward men, but I'd fuck a women given the right conditions. The idea of it doesn't gross me out, why should it?

    The only thing about this though is that the closest I've gotten to having sex with a women was a transexual (female to male). No titties, but the vagina was intact...I'm tired of playing into the binary-sexual system, but how do you not play into it--ie break free of trying to "be" one vs the other--(esp since I live in America). This has been bothering me for a while now, I thought I'd mention it...
     
  2. SilverTrain

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    Stepping out of the marching lines generally opens one up to this:

    [​IMG]

    But the world needs heroes.
     
  3. Smaccoms

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  4. AlteredEgo

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    I don't understand your last question. You ask how not to play into the binary sexual system, how not to try to be necessarily one or the other. Perhaps the problem is in the trying. Why can't you just live?
     
  5. Smaccoms

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    My point is that I'm not "allowed" to "just live". In this society, everyone fits into the category of either "straight", or "gay", everyone. Those categories define certain things about you, and give you limitations in your sexuality. Not fitting into one of these categories is socially unacceptable. Do you understand what I'm saying? Does anyone?
     
  6. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    I don't think its true to say its not socially acceptable to fall outside of labels. More confusing for an individual to figure things out maybe and depressing or paranoia inducing if you're the other half of person who is still trying to figure it out etc etc.

    For me, i don't feel boxed by anyone but myself. I choose to attach a label that exists (gay) because it best reflects my feelings and interests. I don't need the % when the label is perfect. IMO
     
  7. SilverTrain

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    We humans do cherish our labels. But only the ones on the "approved list".

    You're black or white, but never gray.
     
  8. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    You are when you're dead, just sayin.
     
  9. Smaccoms

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    If you tell a group of people you're "gay", you'll be more socially accepted overall than if you tell them you're "bi". That is a FACT. I do not believe it's right to tell someone you fit into this category, or the other with something like sexuality which isn't black and white at ALL. I believe it sets unrealistic and unnatural limitations that shouldn't exist or be a problem.
    Personally, the idea or concept of fitting into the label perfectly depresses and confuses me. How could everyone possibly fit into one category or the other? Am I really that predictable? If you fit the label perfectly, does that mean when you meet someone, and you tell them you're "gay", they know everything you're about already? They know your entire person? Does that mean they could tell you whether you're soul mates or not from the first meeting? You can't sum up you entire being or personality in one word--it's just impossible. The entire concept of it, while can be an amusing sit com (Will & Grace), scares me a little.
     
  10. Smaccoms

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    We are designed to categorize by nature, it's true (I'm still in love with you...hahaha). But categorizing everything doesn't work quite as well in our modern world today anymore does it?
     
  11. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    Saying you're straight, bi or gay says nothing about a person other than sexual orientation as i said earlier and even then its not the whole truth if you consider yourself to be genuinely 10/20/30% off the 'label'.
    If the label thing scares you then perhaps you are not so comfortable with your own sexuality as you might think?
     
  12. Smaccoms

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    haha thanks for a good laugh. As if I'm afraid of my own sexuality. I prefer men, that's the best way to put it (that I can think of right now anyway). If all you have to say is that I'm a bumbling idiot, or something of the sort, maybe I'll just ignore you. I just wanted to say thanks for a funny post. Does anyone else have a different opinion? I do like debates...
     
  13. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    You are clearly uninterested in a debate, if you were then you would have already explained the 'facts' i asked about instead of trying to ridicule the perception which i got from your viewpoint. You have not explained what scares you exactly, if you are comfortable with your sexuality then why should you even care about labels?

    I did'nt suggest you were (even a sort of) bumbling idiot. Are you creating this to divert away from my points? Perhaps you are hoping to have someone agree with you entirely so that you can have a gripe rather than a debate.....cos a debate consists of opposing views!
     
  14. bigbull29

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    Anglo-Saxon countries believe ourselves to be so civilized compared to the East and other parts of the world, etc. But in Thailand and many other countries, sexuality labels, while heavily used, are anything but binary. It's complicated, but it's extremely binary here at home. We aren't as civilized as we think we are.
     
  15. Smaccoms

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    well said, I know nothing of sexuality labels, or sexuality period in countries like Thailand. I'm very curious now. Did you know the original geishas of Japan were men? The tradition was overwhelmingly men actually. Japan's a patriarchal society though, so it just makes sense that it eventually switched to women, but still, isn't that interesting?
     
  16. petite

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    The concept that human being primarily think in dualities because we define a thing by stating what it isn't is an old and much discussed one in philosophy. The idea that it's the fault of the government is ludicrous to me.

    There seems to be a spin-off discussion regarding the social acceptability of gays vs. bisexuals, so I thought I'd give my 2 cents. I've observed that it seems to be more acceptable to be gay than bisexual, but mainly because bisexuals are perceived as even more hedonistic and permiscuous and less likely to be monogamous than homosexuals. Gay people have been getting married, publicizing their long relationships, raising children together, etc, so a lot of people see gay couples as the same, if a little kinkier, than your ordinary suburban couple. Bisexual people are pretty much considered to be sexually out-of-control. That's been my observation. Additionally, it seems as though both the gay community and straight community reject bisexuals, so they seem to be doubly discriminated against.
     
  17. bigbull29

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    Thank you.

    That is very interesting, buddy. I didn't know that. I love studying about Japan.

    If you look at a lot of different cultures, human sexuality labels are not binary. Transvestites/transsexuals are accepted and almost respected in India and Thailand. I also believe this is the case in the Figi Islands. They play a "necessary" role in society.

    In many cultures, male homosexuality is considered very normal until a certain age. And straight men sometimes seem to reveal their "bisexual" side with more ease in other countries, even if homosexuality is taboo there (Eastern Europe, France, Turkey, etc).

    Howard Stern epitomizes the typical American "binary" mentallity: you either like titties or dick - there's no in-between.:biggrin1:
     
  18. B_willy5904

    B_willy5904 New Member

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    I would have to agree with you that societal norms are very binary. I see that in the posting on this site. As a bi - swinger that enjoys having sexual and non-sexual relationships with women as much as men, I am way outside the norm. If you read some of my postings about my experiences there tends to be responses that are very critical about my lifestyle. The responses are very gay / straight, black / white, no shades of gray.

    Well my life is nothing but shades of gray.

    One observation that I have had of the binary responses to my postings is that the tend to be younger posters. Feedback that I receive from older members tend to be more positive. Could it be that with age and experience we become more open to the gray areas of life?
     
  19. Smaccoms

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    People often connect the two concepts of maturity and age and assume a direct relationship between the two, and the two do have a strong correlation. Its not only the case though. Some 40'year-olds act as if they're in high school and someone who's 16 might end up being the most mature person you know. It really depends on the individual, their experiences, and their philosophy, how they want to live their life. The binary sexual is a system that works to a certain degree,it's been in effect for decades now and some people live by it their entire lives (in America I mean).
    Personally I think it's more than just being open minded. It takes a higher degree of thinking to think beyond the norm and realize different systems, different philosophies. Thinking beyond the binary sexual system is such an example, since it has such a strong hold in our society. You can call yourself bisexual and think of yourself "outside the norm", but your not as much as you would think, because you're still using the same terms and the same philosophy as the binary sexual system. In this system, bi's are not normal, they're weird and that's how they fit the system (by not fitting, kind of like the rejects in high school, you can't have the cool people if you don't have the "not cool" people). If you're really outside that system, you're not going to think in the terms of that system, you know what I mean? I will say "I prefer men", but I avoid saying "I'm gay", cause that fits the terms of the system I don't want to associate myself with. That says things about me I don't want to say.
    Mithymo's (or however his name is spelt) responses on the last page were really quite amusing...they're so naive...he's a great example of what you're talking about, the "fuck you fit the labels" type deal lol
     
  20. Smaccoms

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    I agree with you on how gays are more accepted than bisexuals nowadays. I think homophobia comes from many different places, including the government--just like when something huge and unlikely occurs, it's due to a great number of many things. There was an episode in Sex and the City about this actually...
     
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