Birth Certificate Gate continues...

Notaguru2

Experimental Member
Joined
May 20, 2008
Posts
1,519
Media
0
Likes
10
Points
123
Location
Charleston, SC
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
mmmm. no. All evidence points to this gaining traction in the main stream media and on the internet. Look how many threads are on this site.


I'm sorry Trinity, but this is not a mainstream website. Yes, there are 2 birthers here making a lot of noise. So? lol Gaining traction since August of last year? So, when the Supreme Court decides to hear ANY one of these cases and rule Obama to be a natural-born citizen, will you then stfu? Or find another cause-celeb?
 

jason_els

<img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Posts
10,228
Media
0
Likes
163
Points
193
Location
Warwick, NY, USA
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
U.S. Citizens not Natural Born Citizens. That case did not affirm that Wong Kim Ark was a Natural Born Citizen, only a Citizen.

U.S. Citizen. Not a Natural Born Citizen.:rolleyes:

Oh yes it did because SCOTUS stands by the definition of, natural born citizen, as used in common law and specifically in the citizenship act of 1790.

Either you didn't read the decision or you don't understand the significance of the ruling, which has not been overturned.
 

B_VinylBoy

Sexy Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Posts
10,363
Media
0
Likes
68
Points
123
Location
Boston, MA / New York, NY
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
You truly are dim-witted.

And you're a closeted racist. :fuckyou2:
Wanna continue with the name game? You should know already that I will easily trounce you in this department. Only my names do stick because they do have some truth to it.

Of course the issue of immigration is inherent in the Natural Born Citizen matter.

And THAT is the real issue. Thank you for finally admitting it. Don't make this about Obama, you hack. That's only one piece of the whole puzzle, and a convenient one for birthers like you because without it there would be NOBODY talking about it. AND YOU KNOW THIS.

Nobody is acting like this is only going to affect Obama

Bullshit. You haven't even mentioned the word immigration in over three threads regarding the subject matter until I brought it up. You think you can win arguments over what is "inherently known" when you can't even accept the fact that Obama has a birth certificate since HE didn't submit it? You're not fooling anyone here. Not even the dim-witted. :rolleyes:

We know it's not only going to affect Obama because that's why the Framers of the Constitution put it in the Constitution...to limit who could become President.

That was their goal, and yet they STILL didn't achieve it. Which is why birthers such as YOURSELF are trying to get it defined now.

How dim-witted can you be? Their intent is in the Constitution

Intent doesn't mean SHIT. That is not an action. Your twisted interpretation of the Law doesn't trump the dictionary, dear. When someone is found guilty of "Arson with the Intent of endangering life", they are found guilty of arson. THAT is the action. The intent tries to establish motive. The guilty party doesn't go to prison for "endangering life". Hell, bungee jumping endangers life. Yet we don't have any thrill seekers going to prison for that intent, now do we?

You've already established the motive (or the intent) of the Founding Fathers... to make sure that someone who isn't a Natural Born Citizen from becoming President or VP. But there was NO ACTION taken to do it. The last remaining legislative body to take action was the Supreme Court. You and the rest of the tin-foiled birthers don't agree with it. Which is why they are pushing for our government to take an action that differs from the one they made in 1898.

Don't worry people with a legal background get it Vinyl.

I'm not. Clearly you're not one of them. :rolleyes:

And Once again, The Supreme Court ruled that Wong Kim Ark was a Citizen not a Natural Born Citizen. That is no way helps Obama to meet his requirement of being a Natural Born Citizen.

You can say it as many times as you want, Trinity, and it won't make it true.

mmmm. no. All evidence points to this gaining traction in the main stream media and on the internet. Look how many threads are on this site.

There are three. One started by Pitbull who has also proven himself to be another question dodging, narrow minded hack, and the other two which rightfully brings RIDICULE to people like you.

You seem to think that any press is good press. That's because a simpleton like you are more obsessed with quantity over quality, not even realizing that once you do have everyone's attention you have to deliver the goods. And birthers such like yourself CANNOT DELIVER. So please... keep making the noise. Make this a big issue so that it does go to the Supreme Court and gets shot down. While you're at it, you can also bring the issue of "banning gay marriage" with you so that can also be ruled as unconstitutional. I think everyone here would love to see a picture of you with two goose egg tattooed to your forehead. Extremist political failure always sounded better in stereo anyhow. :rolleyes:

I'm very well read. And I never stated that what you quoted was the definition of Natural Born Citizen. :rolleyes:

BULLSHIT. You linked to a YouTube video that clearly stated it and claimed that it's legitimate. Was it your "intent" to do that, or should I go by your actions and call you out for the fraud that you are? Take your pick... :fuckyou2:
 
Last edited:

Notaguru2

Experimental Member
Joined
May 20, 2008
Posts
1,519
Media
0
Likes
10
Points
123
Location
Charleston, SC
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
Title 8 of the US Code makes Obama eligible to hold his office. Birthers have few arguments depending on who they are debating.

"Obama wasn't born in the U.S, he was born in Kenya!"
Title 8 answer: Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years.

There's no dispute that his mother was a citizen and lived the requisite amount of time in the US. Although some say the mother didn't start earning "credit" toward the amount of time in the US until she was 16, I find it hard to believe that as a last resort, this path would be taken to strip Obama of his citizenship.

"Obama may have been born here, but his father was Kenyan!"
Title 8 answer: Anyone born inside the United States

That's right, anyone born in the US is a citizen. What else more perfectly defines natural born citizen?

"The Constitution isn't clear on the meaning of natural-born citizen!"
Title 8 answer: Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21

In the end, it DOES appear that birthers DO HAVE TO prove he is not a natural-born citizen afterall =) Get to work Trinity... find that Kenyan birth certificate! lulz
 

jason_els

<img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Posts
10,228
Media
0
Likes
163
Points
193
Location
Warwick, NY, USA
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
You mean he had NO points. I will state this as many times as you need to read it:

The Wong Kim Ark Case affirmed he was a U.S. Citizen, not a Natural Born Citizen.

The ruling upheld the concept that a natural born citizen is someone born of an American parent abroad just as much as someone born on American soil.

How convenient for you to ignore that.

Natural Born Citizen has been addressed in law and precedent established and intent of the Framers has been established in the Constitution.

False. Many Americans can prove they are Natural Born Citizens by presenting their official birth certificates that identify them as being born in the United States to TWO Parents who are citizens born in this Country.

The concept of a natural born citizen goes back to Rome and it includes those born abroad. TWO American parents are not required to be a natural born citizen. Only ONE is.

There is legal understanding of the term and precedent set which courts can make a decision on - that is what they do, interpret the law. Whether you are a citizen at birth or not...does not make one a Natural Born Citizen:

Once again, In the Wong Kim Ark case the court ruled that Wong Kim Art was a U.S. Citizen at birth, however it did not rule he was a Natural Born Citizen.

There was no need to because the ruling upholds the concept that they are one in the same.
 

Trinity

Just Browsing
Joined
Sep 16, 2006
Posts
2,680
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
181
Gender
Female
And you're a closeted racist. :fuckyou2:
Wanna continue with the name game? You should know already that I will easily trounce you in this department. Only my names do stick because they do have some truth to it.



And THAT is the real issue. Thank you for finally admitting it. Don't make this about Obama, you hack. That's only one piece of the whole puzzle, and a convenient one for birthers like you because without it there would be NOBODY talking about it. AND YOU KNOW THIS.



Bullshit. You haven't even mentioned the word immigration in over three threads regarding the subject matter until I brought it up. You think you can win arguments over what is "inherently known" when you can't even accept the fact that Obama has a birth certificate since HE didn't submit it? You're not fooling anyone here. Not even the dim-witted. :rolleyes:



That was their goal, and yet they STILL didn't achieve it. Which is why birthers such as YOURSELF are trying to get it defined now.



Intent doesn't mean SHIT. That is not an action. Your twisted interpretation of the Law doesn't trump the dictionary, dear. When someone is found guilty of "Arson with the Intent of Murder", they are found guilty of arson. THAT is the action. The intent tries t establish motive.

You've already established the motive (or the intent) of the Founding Fathers... to make sure that someone who isn't a Natural Born Citizen from becoming President or VP. But there was NO ACTION taken to do it. What you're proposing is for our government to take an action that differs from the one our Supreme Court has made in 1898.



I'm not. Clearly you're not one of them. :rolleyes:



You can say it as many times as you want, Trinity, and it won't make it true.



There are three. One started by Pitbull who has also proven himself to be another question dodging, narrow minded hack, and the other two which rightfully brings RIDICULE to people like you.

You seem to think that any press is good press. That's because a simpleton like you are more obsessed with quantity over quality, not even realizing that once you do have everyone's attention you have to deliver the goods. And birthers such like yourself CANNOT DELIVER. So please... keep making the noise. Make this a big issue so that it does go to the Supreme Court and gets shot down. While you're at it, you can also bring the issue of "banning gay marriage" with you so that can also be ruled as unconstitutional. I think everyone here would love to see a picture of you with two goose egg tattooed to your forehead. Extremist political failure always sounded better in stereo anyhow. :rolleyes:



BULLSHIT. You linked to a YouTube video that clearly stated it and claimed that it's legitimate. Was it your "intent" to do that, or should I go by your actions and call you out for the fraud that you are? Take your pick... :fuckyou2:

And you've reached the point of sheer stupidity. It's not even worth responding. Everyone can see you have no idea what you are talking about.
 

jason_els

<img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Posts
10,228
Media
0
Likes
163
Points
193
Location
Warwick, NY, USA
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Let's not forget, if the Senate feels so inclined they can always pass a resolution pronouncing Obama a natural-born citizen like they did for John McCain: GovTrack: S. Res. 511 [110th]: Text of Legislation, Agreed to Senate

Now that I think about it, this may actually need to happen just to silence the whackos.

By the way, that resolution was submitted and passed by democrats including Obama.

The Senate can pass any resolution it likes but it doesn't make that resolution legal under the Constitution. The Senate is in no position to decide what terms are defined in the Constitution. That's the exclusive domain of the Supreme Court. If the Senate, President, House, or any other branch of government wants to force the Supreme Court to define something a certain way, then it has to pass a Constitutional amendment. The Senate resolution was a grandstanding act with no legal force.
 

vince

Legendary Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Posts
8,271
Media
1
Likes
1,677
Points
333
Location
Canada
Sexuality
69% Straight, 31% Gay
Gender
Male
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
News Release
LINDA LINGLE
GOVERNOR

CHIYOME LEINAALA FUKINO M.D.
DIRECTOR
Phone: (808) 586-4410
Fax: (808) 586-4444

For Immediate Release: October 31, 2008 08-93

STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO

"There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.
"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai'i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
"No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai'i.”
###
For more information, contact:
Janice Okubo
Communications Office
Phone: (808) 586-4442
 

Notaguru2

Experimental Member
Joined
May 20, 2008
Posts
1,519
Media
0
Likes
10
Points
123
Location
Charleston, SC
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
The Senate can pass any resolution it likes but it doesn't make that resolution legal under the Constitution. The Senate is in no position to decide what terms are defined in the Constitution. That's the exclusive domain of the Supreme Court. If the Senate, President, House, or any other branch of government wants to force the Supreme Court to define something a certain way, then it has to pass a Constitutional amendment. The Senate resolution was a grandstanding act with no legal force.


You didn't detect my sarcasm :rolleyes:
 

B_VinylBoy

Sexy Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Posts
10,363
Media
0
Likes
68
Points
123
Location
Boston, MA / New York, NY
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
And you've reached the point of sheer stupidity. It's not even worth responding. Everyone can see you have no idea what you are talking about.

The only thing this tells me is that you can't dispute opposing facts when they're presented to you. And keep this in mind... you may think I'm crazy but it seems as if jason_els, Notaguru2, stevenvegas and many others on this thread (and the other two) are on MY SIDE of the fence on this debate.

I take pleasure in taking apart your ideals one by one. You may not have any pictures to prove that you're a faker, but I can easily see through your bullshit. And now, many others can see that as well. Have fun with the rest of the gang, because I'm sure they'll do even more damage. :fuckyou2:
 

Trinity

Just Browsing
Joined
Sep 16, 2006
Posts
2,680
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
181
Gender
Female
The ruling upheld the concept that a natural born citizen is someone born of an American parent abroad just as much as someone born on American soil.

How convenient for you to ignore that.

Read the final paragraph of the Case. The only question affirmed was that Wong Kim Ark was a Citizen.

The concept of a natural born citizen goes back to Rome and it includes those born abroad. TWO American parents are not required to be a natural born citizen. Only ONE is.

Not so.

The Framer's of the constitution and subsequent laws have repeatedly referenced parents (plural) two parents being born in this county and both the Framers and laws have focused on the Father being born in this country with no allegiance to another nation.

There was no need to because the ruling upholds the concept that they are one in the same.
The decision specifically goes into great detail to review that they aren't one in the same and finally rules on one question: that Wong Kim Ark is a citizen. But fails to include "and and Natural Born Citizen." The ruling is clear.
 

joyboytoy79

Sexy Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Posts
3,686
Media
32
Likes
65
Points
193
Location
Washington, D.C. (United States)
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
False. Many Americans can prove they are Natural Born Citizens by presenting their official birth certificates that identify them as being born in the United States to TWO Parents who are citizens born in this Country.

If i'm understanding correctly, you contend that a natural born citizen exists only if both parents were natural born citizens and the child is born in the US.

That would, of course, mean that ultimately, nobody in the US is a natural born citizen. For, while I can prove that I was born in the US, and I can prove that both of my parents were born in the US, and I can prove that all of my grandparents were born in the US, my great-grandfather was indeed born in Germany. So, that would mean my Grandfather, though born in the US, only had one parent who was born in the US, and couldn't be considered Natural Born. Since he is my mother's father, and he's not Natural Born, she isn't Natural Born either, which means, though I've ancestry that goes back to the founding of Jamestown, I'm not Natural Born, because my mother isn't.

This is, of course, ABSURD. As are you. But we've proven that here many many times, haven't we?

Ye, trollster of the trin persuasion, shall remain firmly entrenched in my very short ignore list.

The truth of the matter is, Obama has a state issued certificate of birth. It is legally valid in Hawaii, and as such, is considered a lawful document in all of the remaining 49 states and the District of Columbia. It may not be an "original" but, guess what, I don't have access to my original birth cirtificate, and neither do millions of other americans. In fact, until as recently as the 1940s some states didn't even ISSUE birth certificates. There is no national law compelling them to do so. This whole birth certificate argument is nothing but smoke and mirrors, just as the Monica Lewinsky argument was nothing but smoke and mirrors. The republicans will use the judical system as a means of rendering any and all Democratic presidents as inneffectual as possible, even if it means coming up with phoney accusations.
 

B_VinylBoy

Sexy Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Posts
10,363
Media
0
Likes
68
Points
123
Location
Boston, MA / New York, NY
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
You only demonstrate your dim-witted logic. :rolleyes:

Just like your failed interpretation of the United States vs. Wong Kim Ark...
You can say it as much as you want. It STILL doesn't make it true. :fuckyou2:

Now go fight your battles with the other rational people in this thread taking you to task. I'm done slapping you around in this thread.
 

jason_els

<img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Posts
10,228
Media
0
Likes
163
Points
193
Location
Warwick, NY, USA
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
News Release
LINDA LINGLE
GOVERNOR

CHIYOME LEINAALA FUKINO M.D.
DIRECTOR
Phone: (808) 586-4410
Fax: (808) 586-4444

For Immediate Release: October 31, 2008 08-93

STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO

"There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.
"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai'i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
"No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai'i.”
###
For more information, contact:
Janice Okubo
Communications Office
Phone: (808) 586-4442

The problem is, as CNN discovered, Hawaii destroyed its paper documents in 2001. This statement has actually added to the debate rather than resolved anything because it implies that there is a piece of paper locked away in Hawaii's vaults when there isn't. The most Hawaii can do is issue an official certificate that reflects the electronic record, which is what they did. Obama will never produce the original 1961 document because it no longer exists. Therefore, this debate will never end and Obama can never satisfy the birthers. By demanding something they know doesn't exist he's placed in a lose-lose situation as far as they're concerned and they know it.

They claim the Constitution doesn't define natural born citizen and they're right. The body Constitutionally-authorized to do precisely that, the Supreme Court, however, has and that definition is not peculiar or vague by any means, having been long used in international, British, and American law. Even if Obama was born on Mars, he's still a natural born citizen as defined by the Supreme Court because his mother was American. That is what fulfills the requirements. The whole Hawaii thing is a MacGuffin. Location of birth would only matter if neither of his parents were American citizens.
 

mikeyh9in

Cherished Member
Joined
May 31, 2004
Posts
322
Media
4
Likes
342
Points
293
Age
55
Location
San Francisco (California, United States)
Gender
Male
Trinity,

Being so concerned that *one* person is violating the constitution, are you equally passionate about millions of people in the United States ... the majority of which are citizens... being denied a fundamental right of marriage?

The US Constitution has an equal protection clause... If roughly 20,000 Gay and Lesbian people in California are legally married, and now a law has been passed outlawing it -- denying a right that others have... isn't that unconstitutional??

Why aren't the "birthers" spending equal time promoting equality under the constitution? Instead of being afraid that a black man is President.

This issue is purely race motivated.
 

Notaguru2

Experimental Member
Joined
May 20, 2008
Posts
1,519
Media
0
Likes
10
Points
123
Location
Charleston, SC
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
THE REAL MOTIVATION BEHIND BIRTHERS

Obama can not be president of theses the united states because he is not a natural born citizen of the united states.

I seem to have heard this before...

Obama was born in Mogadesa Kenya.

I can't seem to find this on a map. If you meant, Mogadishu, that's not in Kenya. Obama being a skinny black man lead you to think he was from Somalia? Do you read or write?

His mother died and his father took him to Indoneshia where he left him to be adopted.

I couldn't find Indoneshia on a map either, but I assume he meant, Indonesia. What orifice did you pull this tidbit out of?

All the white men in this country are fighting the black men saying no way in hell is a black man ever going to rule over them.I hope that they succeed.As far as i can see that this is white america and will always be.I am not being racist the blacks are the racist.

I just don't know what to say about this.

The media are in love with Obama because Obama has his lawyers pay them to say so_Obama has his lawyers threaten any one even our government if they try take him down.All the countrys and people that gave him money more than once using names like lou lou or bunny or what ever to get him elected.Remeber when he appeard and said that he was chosen well he had all his high priced lawers remove Hillarys name off the ballot.Thats the reason he made her secratary of state.I believe Obama should be exposed.I hope that they make him prove he is a natual born citizen of the united states up in washington and send him back to Kenya.Obama showed himself with his white grandmother but not with his black grand mother who has said that she attended Obamas bith in kenya.

There's this thing called paranoid schizophrenia ; maybe you've heard of it. So, what I got from this was a little about citizenship and A LOT about Oabama being black.

As you said Trinity, you're in good company.
 
Last edited:

SR_Blarney_Frank

Experimental Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Posts
383
Media
0
Likes
5
Points
103
Once again, In the Wong Kim Ark case the court ruled that Wong Kim Art was a U.S. Citizen at birth, however it did not rule he was a Natural Born Citizen.

Um correct. BECAUSE THE COURT HAS NEVER RULED ANYONE TO BE NATURAL BORN NOR HAS IT EVER DEFINED IT. The term does not exist in law.

So let's get this straight. You want Obama to prove he is something that is nowhere defined by law or which cannot be proved by anyone in this country?

The prior poster pointed out that by logical extension your definition - which, again, doesn't exist anywhere in law - means nobody would be a natural born citizen.

You've painted yourself into a corner but I don't suspect that'll keep you from continuing to argue.
 
Last edited: