joe22xxx: This topic is amazing to me. It seems like it morphs this driection and then another direction. What's been written recently makes me feel many different things about being who I am. For me so much of sexuality with actual people is wrapped up in emotions. I can have great sexual fantasies which are fun or extremely pleasurable, but when I'm emotionally invloved, a different play of sensations and feelings happen. For example, I have very good male friend. We've been friends since we were little boys in kindergarten. I love him as much as I've ever loved anybody, but I don't want to have sex with him. I have a girl friend, who I'm involved with now. We are emotionally and sexually connected. I love her also but in a different way. I'm not sure I can be completely clear about what the feelings are about these two people. Maybe I am "bi-affectional". Is that a word? Maybe there are many guys like me.
;)bisexual is better
- Thread starter jdoe86
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Man, you just sound like you're pretty comfortable with people all around. Almost stopped to ask why you had to preface your male best friend with, "I don't want to have sex with him." Who cares? If you've been friends with someone for that long and you don't love him in some way, even if he is another guy, that would be rather odd. Friendships just don't last that long with little endearment.
I guess I look at your comment and wonder for myself if the "feelings" you mention have any such connection to "sexuality." I'm pretty quick to say no. I mean, sexuality definitely has physical and emotional components to it, just like sexuality in some way defines the people with whom you have sex and to whom you entrust your love and affection in a relationship. But these are friend-type feelings you're discussing, too. I love those near and dear to me. And dare I say, I'm pretty fond of some of you LPSGers out there, too.
But just because I'm comfortable in sharing those sentiments... well, no offense... but... uh... (most of) y'all ain't gettin' none of this right chere! 8)
I guess I look at your comment and wonder for myself if the "feelings" you mention have any such connection to "sexuality." I'm pretty quick to say no. I mean, sexuality definitely has physical and emotional components to it, just like sexuality in some way defines the people with whom you have sex and to whom you entrust your love and affection in a relationship. But these are friend-type feelings you're discussing, too. I love those near and dear to me. And dare I say, I'm pretty fond of some of you LPSGers out there, too.
But just because I'm comfortable in sharing those sentiments... well, no offense... but... uh... (most of) y'all ain't gettin' none of this right chere! 8)
Javierdude22: [quote author=blo1988 link=board=meetgreet;num=1056566246;start=40#57 date=07/10/03 at 05:21:21] The beauty of this format is that it offers the opportunity to let your guard down and express feelings that you might not ordinarily have the courage or opportunity to explore. It is a little like group therapy.
A terrific deal for anyone, but especially for someone in the 15-25 year range. These are particularly dynamic and testosterone charged years in which there is a lot of sexual sorting out. There is is so much social instruction about what is "right" or "wrong" in an Anglo-Saxon-Christian culture that we actually spend time thinking about whether or not it is wrong to enjoy looking at another guy's dick, or how often we jerk off, etc.
Damn.
I certainly have been there.
[/quote]
Havent posted this one in a while...but i guess that sometimes you just dont know how to respond, but still, you fell theres so much you need to respond to...
Or maybe its just that you feel that some of these people seem to understand whats happening here....and you just dont wanna stop talking....i dont care where this thread is goin guys, as long as its going..
Blo...you seem to hit every one of my insomnia causing issues on this topic. And you have very balanced, and if i may say so, wise view on it all, i think.
For me this thread is exactly the fact that you guys dont know me...in real life at least...theres no judgement, and if there is then Control-Alt Delete will solve that. But already, theres the assurance that it is an open forum, so theres free speech. I do feel these times you mention 15-25, or even way longer than that, are very stormy times. Its sad...but this topic is what keeps me awake at night...for the good and bad....and its something that seems to be affecting my everyday life as well...and therefore, during the day, it seems to be in my head every second...
Anyways....on a lighter note...i was wondering...nowadays, they say 5-10% of the population is bi and or gay. How is that? Is having affection for the same side a novel thing? I know its not novel, cause it is mentioned of Roman Emperors and in the bible, but still....on this scale....i dont think it is heard of.....and i am not so sure if the argument that it is unspoken is true. Reason why i bring this is up that i am in Spain. My family lives in a very traditional rural part of Spain, in a small village. My family has the spatial span of their province.....and the knowledge span of the Iberical Peninsula. My cousins all work in the docs, or in town somewhere. Gayness of any kind is almost not even heard of here, and truth be told, im not too sure if the percentages are right in this track of land. They have little influence of internet, tv, or the outside corrupted world....they know its out there, but in a distant place. Why is that? Where is this rising attraction towards the same sex coming from?
Dont gimme the argument a lotta people have a dormant attraction towards the same sex, cause if its dormant and never discovered, than theres no proof it existed at all. Its also not the argument that the bi or gay people move to capital centers, the Western world. Sure, in overall they do, but it has to come from somewhere, and it sure as hell aint cming from my province. And i ám sure of it.
So where is it coming from. Is it the pandoras box opened when a kid sees something homo sexual on tv, and starts seeing this in a different perspective. Kids fantasies go where they are forbidden. Dont go into that cookyjar....but of course...you do.
Why is it that in western society, there are so many bisexual or homosexual people, and in traditional societies, it doesnt exist? Or, more nuanced, not anywhere near the amounts we now have? Yes...i know...in a way im trying to explain homo-sexual attractions of any kind....its a tough cookie....but it is weird isnt it? Is this forum for example creating an excuse to start thinking differently about things you never even gave a minute thought to? Some of us now seem to be very interested in BDSM for example, when before, they hardly knew of it. A new fetish discovered?
I for one know...that internet acces, didnt help my case...it gave me a world to explore...
whats this all about????
A terrific deal for anyone, but especially for someone in the 15-25 year range. These are particularly dynamic and testosterone charged years in which there is a lot of sexual sorting out. There is is so much social instruction about what is "right" or "wrong" in an Anglo-Saxon-Christian culture that we actually spend time thinking about whether or not it is wrong to enjoy looking at another guy's dick, or how often we jerk off, etc.
Damn.
I certainly have been there.
[/quote]
Havent posted this one in a while...but i guess that sometimes you just dont know how to respond, but still, you fell theres so much you need to respond to...
Or maybe its just that you feel that some of these people seem to understand whats happening here....and you just dont wanna stop talking....i dont care where this thread is goin guys, as long as its going..
Blo...you seem to hit every one of my insomnia causing issues on this topic. And you have very balanced, and if i may say so, wise view on it all, i think.
For me this thread is exactly the fact that you guys dont know me...in real life at least...theres no judgement, and if there is then Control-Alt Delete will solve that. But already, theres the assurance that it is an open forum, so theres free speech. I do feel these times you mention 15-25, or even way longer than that, are very stormy times. Its sad...but this topic is what keeps me awake at night...for the good and bad....and its something that seems to be affecting my everyday life as well...and therefore, during the day, it seems to be in my head every second...
Anyways....on a lighter note...i was wondering...nowadays, they say 5-10% of the population is bi and or gay. How is that? Is having affection for the same side a novel thing? I know its not novel, cause it is mentioned of Roman Emperors and in the bible, but still....on this scale....i dont think it is heard of.....and i am not so sure if the argument that it is unspoken is true. Reason why i bring this is up that i am in Spain. My family lives in a very traditional rural part of Spain, in a small village. My family has the spatial span of their province.....and the knowledge span of the Iberical Peninsula. My cousins all work in the docs, or in town somewhere. Gayness of any kind is almost not even heard of here, and truth be told, im not too sure if the percentages are right in this track of land. They have little influence of internet, tv, or the outside corrupted world....they know its out there, but in a distant place. Why is that? Where is this rising attraction towards the same sex coming from?
Dont gimme the argument a lotta people have a dormant attraction towards the same sex, cause if its dormant and never discovered, than theres no proof it existed at all. Its also not the argument that the bi or gay people move to capital centers, the Western world. Sure, in overall they do, but it has to come from somewhere, and it sure as hell aint cming from my province. And i ám sure of it.
So where is it coming from. Is it the pandoras box opened when a kid sees something homo sexual on tv, and starts seeing this in a different perspective. Kids fantasies go where they are forbidden. Dont go into that cookyjar....but of course...you do.
Why is it that in western society, there are so many bisexual or homosexual people, and in traditional societies, it doesnt exist? Or, more nuanced, not anywhere near the amounts we now have? Yes...i know...in a way im trying to explain homo-sexual attractions of any kind....its a tough cookie....but it is weird isnt it? Is this forum for example creating an excuse to start thinking differently about things you never even gave a minute thought to? Some of us now seem to be very interested in BDSM for example, when before, they hardly knew of it. A new fetish discovered?
I for one know...that internet acces, didnt help my case...it gave me a world to explore...
whats this all about????
blo1988: Jav raises a good point for men in rural areas. When their homosexual feelings emerge a palpable sense of isolation accompanies them. This is common in rural US, particularly in the Bible Belt that I grew up in.
My friends who have sorted through their homosexual feelings
have universally reported that at some point they felt isolated or alone.....disturbed, at some point, by an oppressive sense that they were in a minority. I felt this too. It may be more oppressive in areas where there are no happy gay/bisexual role models or healthy social networks.
It helped me a lot to be in a large metropolitan area when I was evolving sexually. I had a lot of role models.
One can get the feeling that there are few gay people around in a small town. I practice in a smallish town. My experience is that there is an emerging group of high school kids that are increasingly comfortable being openly gay. It has been a great to be active in local political and cultural activities, but I was surprised that I had unwittingly become a role model for some of these kids. This is terrific, but may be different than the experiences of teens in rural Europe.
However, I think that the behavior of the 20+ year olds may not be a whole lot different than in rural areas anywhere. For instance, I was surprised to find out how many married men have "extracurricular activities". I have been approached by more than one married man since I moved here.
I have even known two gay men married to lesbian women.
A lot of the single guys in their 20's date locally but go to the nearby clubs in larger cities. The internet has helped them get introduced to new folks.
I guess that I am just pointing out that in small town USA more goes on than meets the eye. I was really surprised. I doubt that this is vastly different than other parts of the world. Certainly social and religious customs will influence public behavior, but the critical fact remains that what happens privately is more complex.
If you wonder where all the gay/bisexuals are you can find folks easily in large metropolitan areas...it is much less obvious, and likely less common, in rural areas, but it is more comman than you may think.
By the way Jav, I sent you a private message. Don't have a clue how to check to see if messages actually get through.
Peace.......
My friends who have sorted through their homosexual feelings
have universally reported that at some point they felt isolated or alone.....disturbed, at some point, by an oppressive sense that they were in a minority. I felt this too. It may be more oppressive in areas where there are no happy gay/bisexual role models or healthy social networks.
It helped me a lot to be in a large metropolitan area when I was evolving sexually. I had a lot of role models.
One can get the feeling that there are few gay people around in a small town. I practice in a smallish town. My experience is that there is an emerging group of high school kids that are increasingly comfortable being openly gay. It has been a great to be active in local political and cultural activities, but I was surprised that I had unwittingly become a role model for some of these kids. This is terrific, but may be different than the experiences of teens in rural Europe.
However, I think that the behavior of the 20+ year olds may not be a whole lot different than in rural areas anywhere. For instance, I was surprised to find out how many married men have "extracurricular activities". I have been approached by more than one married man since I moved here.
I have even known two gay men married to lesbian women.
A lot of the single guys in their 20's date locally but go to the nearby clubs in larger cities. The internet has helped them get introduced to new folks.
I guess that I am just pointing out that in small town USA more goes on than meets the eye. I was really surprised. I doubt that this is vastly different than other parts of the world. Certainly social and religious customs will influence public behavior, but the critical fact remains that what happens privately is more complex.
If you wonder where all the gay/bisexuals are you can find folks easily in large metropolitan areas...it is much less obvious, and likely less common, in rural areas, but it is more comman than you may think.
By the way Jav, I sent you a private message. Don't have a clue how to check to see if messages actually get through.
Peace.......
Javierdude22: Blo....thank you very much for your IM. You seem to have been in many situations i have found, and still find myself in. And especially the story of you graduately being more conscious about you maybe being attracted to the same sex, seems very familiar.
I am not at all denying any of these feelings...the thing that actually makes me sad most of all is that i am actually véry aware of them. Theyre there, and theyre not going away...i am very certain of that. But, the thing is, that i will not stand for them to be around. Like i said, i do still have strong emotional, and sexual feelings towards girls...but i do think the sexual part is stronger with guys. Lets say 2/3 and 1/3.
But like i already kinda vented...i have problems with aligning my spiritual beliefs with my sexual orientations. I am very strong, from a Christian standpoint, about these feelings not being right. however, i dó also realise that it is out of my hands, so, im not to blame for me having any kind of attraction towards guys. But i do feel, i should not let them rule me. And i hope to be able to commit myself to a girl one day. I have been very passionate about a few girls, it just doenst happen often. On the other hand, ive hardly ever been passionate about guys, except now and then for the physical sexual part. I think im just very picky. But i do realise very well, that the chances of me committing to a girl totally, are slim...i realise i might throw myself into an unhppy marriage as well, and i dont care for that, and im in the proces of coming to terms with me maybe being celibate for the rest of my life. That part is actually the only thing that makes me unhappy...not so much celibacy...but more, being...alone, ya know (ok, this sounds depressing but im pretty stoic about it now)
Maybe that sounds weird, and youll tell me it will psychologically kill me...but i do not care...my religion is too important for me...
But on another note: i dont feel isolated at all...i live in big city, have a lotta bi and gay colleagues....not that they will ever come to know my sexual orientation, im str8 to everyone but two persons ive told. But i do feel scared about ever telling my dad, or relatives and friends...they will have hard time with understanding...and the -hanging with the guys- part will not be as the old days....to me it wouldnt change, but to them it will...and i wouldnt be able to blame them...
I wanted to send you this in IM, but i decided to put it up here, its always good to hear eachothers stories i think.
But actually Blo...what i meant with my last post was, not that rural people have a harder time expressing any different tpe of sexuality, but more the folloing:
* Im aware that the percentage seems to be anywhere betwen 5-10%. But youre not telling me that this was the same in the Dark ages, pre dark ages, or more exaggerated: prehistoric times. Why is it that the Western Civilization seems to create an atmosphere where these things seem to grow exponentially? It if were a nature thing vs. a nurture thing, than the numbers would have to add up for those times as well.
see where im getting at....anyways...this post is getting too long, next..
I am not at all denying any of these feelings...the thing that actually makes me sad most of all is that i am actually véry aware of them. Theyre there, and theyre not going away...i am very certain of that. But, the thing is, that i will not stand for them to be around. Like i said, i do still have strong emotional, and sexual feelings towards girls...but i do think the sexual part is stronger with guys. Lets say 2/3 and 1/3.
But like i already kinda vented...i have problems with aligning my spiritual beliefs with my sexual orientations. I am very strong, from a Christian standpoint, about these feelings not being right. however, i dó also realise that it is out of my hands, so, im not to blame for me having any kind of attraction towards guys. But i do feel, i should not let them rule me. And i hope to be able to commit myself to a girl one day. I have been very passionate about a few girls, it just doenst happen often. On the other hand, ive hardly ever been passionate about guys, except now and then for the physical sexual part. I think im just very picky. But i do realise very well, that the chances of me committing to a girl totally, are slim...i realise i might throw myself into an unhppy marriage as well, and i dont care for that, and im in the proces of coming to terms with me maybe being celibate for the rest of my life. That part is actually the only thing that makes me unhappy...not so much celibacy...but more, being...alone, ya know (ok, this sounds depressing but im pretty stoic about it now)
Maybe that sounds weird, and youll tell me it will psychologically kill me...but i do not care...my religion is too important for me...
But on another note: i dont feel isolated at all...i live in big city, have a lotta bi and gay colleagues....not that they will ever come to know my sexual orientation, im str8 to everyone but two persons ive told. But i do feel scared about ever telling my dad, or relatives and friends...they will have hard time with understanding...and the -hanging with the guys- part will not be as the old days....to me it wouldnt change, but to them it will...and i wouldnt be able to blame them...
I wanted to send you this in IM, but i decided to put it up here, its always good to hear eachothers stories i think.
But actually Blo...what i meant with my last post was, not that rural people have a harder time expressing any different tpe of sexuality, but more the folloing:
* Im aware that the percentage seems to be anywhere betwen 5-10%. But youre not telling me that this was the same in the Dark ages, pre dark ages, or more exaggerated: prehistoric times. Why is it that the Western Civilization seems to create an atmosphere where these things seem to grow exponentially? It if were a nature thing vs. a nurture thing, than the numbers would have to add up for those times as well.
see where im getting at....anyways...this post is getting too long, next..
blo1988: Jav, I sent you a reply. You can post it publically if you like. If not,cool. I forgot to save it...
Later..
Later..
SchroederJr: I think I see what you're asking, Jav, and I'm not so sure. I think what you're referring to as the "exponential growth" is not so much growth as it is acceptance. Gay people have always been around. Obviously it happened enough and as long ago for them to consider it a threat to their future, so the Jews made laws against it. I don't think that there are more gay people now than there were 100 years ago; I just think that we, society as a whole, know how to handle it much better. In becoming a more inter-linked world, by basically integrating everything with everyone you slowly break down the barreirs of distance. Those few that do end up stuck in small towns in the Bible Belt (like me) have outlets (TV, Internet, magazines, etc.) where they can realize that they're not alone. Just the other day I was talking to a friend of mine who's 36 and gay, and he's still amazed that I was comfortable with myself and my sexuality when I was 17. It just blew his mind... and that shows how far we've come along so quickly. By allowing these previously isolated pockets of "freaks" to come together we have create a larger, more visible mass of us.
As for religion, its a tough, tough topic to deal with, and I don't really know how to coach anyone else through it. It took me 5 loooong years, a lot of reading, exploring, talking, praying, thinking, and some close friends to really fully come to terms with my faith and my sexuality being as integral to me as they are. My word of advice: make sure it's God that you're worshipping and praying to and not your religion. It is very easy to let your religion convict you instead of God. Sometimes its maddening trying to figure out which is what and whom, but the result is worth it. Don't give up on either. They do work together, despite what the rest of the world tells you; they just may not quite work how you, or any one else expected them to when you started.
As for religion, its a tough, tough topic to deal with, and I don't really know how to coach anyone else through it. It took me 5 loooong years, a lot of reading, exploring, talking, praying, thinking, and some close friends to really fully come to terms with my faith and my sexuality being as integral to me as they are. My word of advice: make sure it's God that you're worshipping and praying to and not your religion. It is very easy to let your religion convict you instead of God. Sometimes its maddening trying to figure out which is what and whom, but the result is worth it. Don't give up on either. They do work together, despite what the rest of the world tells you; they just may not quite work how you, or any one else expected them to when you started.
Javier, I really don't think it's religion that's your problem. I, too, am Catholic. The official Catechism of the Catholic Church recognises the homosexual as being a full child of God and should be accorded all the love and dignity that goes with that. The Church accepts the gay men and lesbians of the world as being worthwhile and valuable human beings. Several countries have chapters of the organization Dignity, which is a group for gay Catholics coming to grips with their sexuality. I believe your main obstacle is your family. Families often have a hard time accepting a gay or bisexual member. And you're half Spanish, so you're an heir to the culture of machismo; believe me, I know what that's like. I realise that it's not easy for a lot of people to reveal such a thing to their families. For me, it was difficult, but not as difficult as living with the lies and pain. Living a life of secrecy wasn't worth it for me. But people are different; there's no one solution that works for everyone. When you reach a decision, I'm sure it will be the right decision for you and, after all, that's what's important.
blo1988: I agree with DMW and S Jr regarding religious issues vis a vis homosexuality. I was reared in a strict Southern Baptist family and it was quite a burden to sift through my Pavlovian responses to my homosexual... hell, all of my sexual, feelings. It was quite an obstacle for me.
Insofar as Catholic teachings go, I have a perspective that might be worth sharing. The man that I am currently in a relationship with was in Catholic seminary when we first met. He had known that he was gay for some time, but had never acted upon it with another man. Our meeting apparently crystallized his thinking on some very fundamental issues......many of the ones that you are mulling over.
I was very reluctant to get into such a fundamentally problematic situation, so I withdrew politely.
He told me later that in the midst of his dramatic existential crisis he went to his longtime spiritual advisor and tearfully spilled his guts.
After a melodramatic and over-wrought explanation of his dilemma the wise old priest offered 3 thoughts:
1) He pulled out a gold band and asked him to keep it. He said that a cleric's vocation is about being married to the Church, with all it's peculiarities. If it was to be the love of his life then he was to pray for the grace to accept it. If it was to be a man, then he was to pray for the grace to accept it as well. Love, he explained, is a gift. Put the ring on when you are certain that you can accept that gift.
2) He then said something in Latin and asked if it was understood. Well, it wasn't. So, he translated quite matter-of-factly, " A hard penis has no conscience". It is important that you listen to the message that it is giving you. Understand that it is not something that you can ignore. It can be a blessing or a curse, it is up to you.
3) "Get off the cross, we need the wood." This isn't the end of your life as you know it. It is the emergence of understanding. Don't persecute yourself ...........and don't stay in the Church as in an unconcious attempt to escape your sexuality.
Well, I guess that you know the outcome of his decision. It was meant to be. He wears a gold band given to him by a wise old cleric.
So, my friend, believe in yourself and your basic goodness. The rest will sort itself out in time. There are many of us who have walked in shoes like yours....not yours, but close enough that we empathize sincerely. I hope that it is helpful to know that you have plenty of company.
Peace..........
Insofar as Catholic teachings go, I have a perspective that might be worth sharing. The man that I am currently in a relationship with was in Catholic seminary when we first met. He had known that he was gay for some time, but had never acted upon it with another man. Our meeting apparently crystallized his thinking on some very fundamental issues......many of the ones that you are mulling over.
I was very reluctant to get into such a fundamentally problematic situation, so I withdrew politely.
He told me later that in the midst of his dramatic existential crisis he went to his longtime spiritual advisor and tearfully spilled his guts.
After a melodramatic and over-wrought explanation of his dilemma the wise old priest offered 3 thoughts:
1) He pulled out a gold band and asked him to keep it. He said that a cleric's vocation is about being married to the Church, with all it's peculiarities. If it was to be the love of his life then he was to pray for the grace to accept it. If it was to be a man, then he was to pray for the grace to accept it as well. Love, he explained, is a gift. Put the ring on when you are certain that you can accept that gift.
2) He then said something in Latin and asked if it was understood. Well, it wasn't. So, he translated quite matter-of-factly, " A hard penis has no conscience". It is important that you listen to the message that it is giving you. Understand that it is not something that you can ignore. It can be a blessing or a curse, it is up to you.
3) "Get off the cross, we need the wood." This isn't the end of your life as you know it. It is the emergence of understanding. Don't persecute yourself ...........and don't stay in the Church as in an unconcious attempt to escape your sexuality.
Well, I guess that you know the outcome of his decision. It was meant to be. He wears a gold band given to him by a wise old cleric.
So, my friend, believe in yourself and your basic goodness. The rest will sort itself out in time. There are many of us who have walked in shoes like yours....not yours, but close enough that we empathize sincerely. I hope that it is helpful to know that you have plenty of company.
Peace..........
Javierdude22: DMW and Blo...thanx for your posts....they are very insightfull....
I have a problem with attention so im gonna wrap this up concerning this aspect of the bi-topic.
DMW...although i appreciate your post very much...it is actually nót so much my family i am worried about. Mainly, cause i intend to not let them know ever...that will not be hard, as they will not expect it from me, even if ill be single at 40. It is very much so the religion part...and although in part i do agree that, like many would claim, it is silly to be -unhappy- over a religion, i feel strong about it. Like some people feel strong about being vegetarian, although the analogy isnt all that :-/
DMW, your right in the sense that the catholic church accepts homosexuals, they however do not accept the act of homo sexual sex, and the pope many times advocates this stand. Hell will be the consequence, so he claims. The bible has a few notes on the topic as well, but as i mentioned somewhere earlier, it is open for interpretation.
My -problem- however is kinda different. It is two tiered.
I have moral feelings about sex with guys, thats the religion part. I feel like total crap after i had sex with -em. But i do feel some sort of attraction to them.
The attraction however does not go so far that i feel strong emotionally...it tends to go towards being buds, and having occasional sex on the side...dont know how to explain it.
With girls, i like the physical sex part less, but i feel stronger about them emotionally, although it takes me quite some time to feel anything for anyone. Even though i am very emotional about friends and my family.
Either way: this will not fit the relationship franework of the western society, meaning being monogamous, feeling secure, love, and maybe having kids and all, basically: a family life. I hold that framework kinda dear, cause i just happen to be traditional like that.
So it doesnt fit a relationship, but in a certain way i could live with that, i could throw these -worldly- desires (a monogamous relationship, kids, etc) out the door, and live with a certain degree of unhappiness about that, and focus on other things, like my career, relatives etc.
But at the same time, i would occasionally have to follow that -hopping- lifestyle, cause the desires would maybe get too strong from time to time. Thats when the religion part kicks in, cause lets be honest: sucha life does not fit any religions ideas of a good lifestyle, and certainly not the christian one. I wanna adhere to what i am Being asked, which is the ten commandments,and the many guides to life the Bible gives us...meaning no causal sex for example.
So what to do, ya know. Thats kinda my point. I have to say that, writing this, it became very clear finally, what i have been trying to get at all along, but i am not sure if anyone outside of my head understands what im saying.
Laterz
I have a problem with attention so im gonna wrap this up concerning this aspect of the bi-topic.
DMW...although i appreciate your post very much...it is actually nót so much my family i am worried about. Mainly, cause i intend to not let them know ever...that will not be hard, as they will not expect it from me, even if ill be single at 40. It is very much so the religion part...and although in part i do agree that, like many would claim, it is silly to be -unhappy- over a religion, i feel strong about it. Like some people feel strong about being vegetarian, although the analogy isnt all that :-/
DMW, your right in the sense that the catholic church accepts homosexuals, they however do not accept the act of homo sexual sex, and the pope many times advocates this stand. Hell will be the consequence, so he claims. The bible has a few notes on the topic as well, but as i mentioned somewhere earlier, it is open for interpretation.
My -problem- however is kinda different. It is two tiered.
I have moral feelings about sex with guys, thats the religion part. I feel like total crap after i had sex with -em. But i do feel some sort of attraction to them.
The attraction however does not go so far that i feel strong emotionally...it tends to go towards being buds, and having occasional sex on the side...dont know how to explain it.
With girls, i like the physical sex part less, but i feel stronger about them emotionally, although it takes me quite some time to feel anything for anyone. Even though i am very emotional about friends and my family.
Either way: this will not fit the relationship franework of the western society, meaning being monogamous, feeling secure, love, and maybe having kids and all, basically: a family life. I hold that framework kinda dear, cause i just happen to be traditional like that.
So it doesnt fit a relationship, but in a certain way i could live with that, i could throw these -worldly- desires (a monogamous relationship, kids, etc) out the door, and live with a certain degree of unhappiness about that, and focus on other things, like my career, relatives etc.
But at the same time, i would occasionally have to follow that -hopping- lifestyle, cause the desires would maybe get too strong from time to time. Thats when the religion part kicks in, cause lets be honest: sucha life does not fit any religions ideas of a good lifestyle, and certainly not the christian one. I wanna adhere to what i am Being asked, which is the ten commandments,and the many guides to life the Bible gives us...meaning no causal sex for example.
So what to do, ya know. Thats kinda my point. I have to say that, writing this, it became very clear finally, what i have been trying to get at all along, but i am not sure if anyone outside of my head understands what im saying.
Laterz
Trackers: I know someone who is gay though and finds his life hard, because he has to hide who he really is from most people. He's a lonely guy too. Sad really, because he is one of the nicest guys you could ever wish to meet.
TopheavyTeen: Being Open-minded is great.
Bisexuality is just that you love to be intimate with both male and females.
Bisexuality is just that you love to be intimate with both male and females.
No, being bisexual is actually a curse. It causes stress on relationships. Unless you're a whore, being bisexual is a curse indeed.
i am inclined to laugh a bit about this post...
i have heard people say: "oh being bisexual must be great! it's like getting to order from both the breakfast menu and the dinner menu at the same time!"
i don't view it as "great" or "better." ...it just "is," and for most of my life, and even up to now it's confused me. i try not to think about it, or compare it, and i let my sexual compass point in the direction it wants to point. ..."FIGURATIVELY," gentlemen. get your minds out of the gutter.
i have heard people say: "oh being bisexual must be great! it's like getting to order from both the breakfast menu and the dinner menu at the same time!"
i don't view it as "great" or "better." ...it just "is," and for most of my life, and even up to now it's confused me. i try not to think about it, or compare it, and i let my sexual compass point in the direction it wants to point. ..."FIGURATIVELY," gentlemen. get your minds out of the gutter.
really great discussion here. This group really excels at being able to explore any- and everything openly and honestly; it continues to amaze me: men, women, younger, older, straight, gay, bi, those rejecting labels and pigeon-holes, hung and not-so-hung, Doms, subs, those thinking with their big heads and those thinking with their not-so-little heads--an international, multi-racial, multi-cultural discussion with respect for all opinions and very little judgment. Wow! What if the "outside" world were like this...?
Who knew that big dick was the secret to world peace. (Then again...who didn't...?) ;-)
Javierdude and Blo1988, you sort-of "rule the room" on this one and I'm very interested in your views on the same issue from different POVs. Javier, I know you to be upbeat from many other discussions; that makes your real struggle on this one more...uh..."poignant" isn't the right word; "feelable" is about as close as I can get. I'm sort-of in Jonb's "handedness" school: it is what it is. But I'm very lucky that I've never struggled over sexuality at all; I've always been gay, always known I was gay, and never had a problem with it--even growing up Southern Baptist in a small town in North Carolina. Several if my bi buddies have struggled; more the "worst of both worlds" as described on Dee's myth/reality referral page. Kind-of a stranger in both worlds--socially/sexually anyway. (I know the "gay community" gives not-much-more-than lip-service to bi inclusiveness. Sure it's on the letterhead and the parade banner, but really...)
My buddy Mike thinks the gay community is worse than the straight community on this one, but finds no blanket acceptance anywhere. Like so many things, that happens one-on-one. He's made his peace and is (mostly) happily and "functionally" bisexual. I think ambidextrous does happen and you don't have to pick one.
But what about Norseman's question? Do you think fidelity and commitment (to attain the house/kids/picket-fence) are harder because you have twice the temptation...? If that's really what you (ultimately) want, you'd have to "foresake all others" anyway, right? Theoretically. Girls or boys. This is a real question, not a condemnation or "diss." As a gay man in a long-term committed relationship, I know we've had to make-up our own rules as we've gone along about fidelity and monogamy. You may have to do the same (I guess I'm pretty much talking to Javier, huh?). You'll be fine, I think...you may just have to redefine "fine" to fit you. And not try to live up--or down--to preconceived notions. Even your own.
Did I have a point when I started...? Thought so, but that was then, this is now...
Who knew that big dick was the secret to world peace. (Then again...who didn't...?) ;-)
Javierdude and Blo1988, you sort-of "rule the room" on this one and I'm very interested in your views on the same issue from different POVs. Javier, I know you to be upbeat from many other discussions; that makes your real struggle on this one more...uh..."poignant" isn't the right word; "feelable" is about as close as I can get. I'm sort-of in Jonb's "handedness" school: it is what it is. But I'm very lucky that I've never struggled over sexuality at all; I've always been gay, always known I was gay, and never had a problem with it--even growing up Southern Baptist in a small town in North Carolina. Several if my bi buddies have struggled; more the "worst of both worlds" as described on Dee's myth/reality referral page. Kind-of a stranger in both worlds--socially/sexually anyway. (I know the "gay community" gives not-much-more-than lip-service to bi inclusiveness. Sure it's on the letterhead and the parade banner, but really...)
My buddy Mike thinks the gay community is worse than the straight community on this one, but finds no blanket acceptance anywhere. Like so many things, that happens one-on-one. He's made his peace and is (mostly) happily and "functionally" bisexual. I think ambidextrous does happen and you don't have to pick one.
But what about Norseman's question? Do you think fidelity and commitment (to attain the house/kids/picket-fence) are harder because you have twice the temptation...? If that's really what you (ultimately) want, you'd have to "foresake all others" anyway, right? Theoretically. Girls or boys. This is a real question, not a condemnation or "diss." As a gay man in a long-term committed relationship, I know we've had to make-up our own rules as we've gone along about fidelity and monogamy. You may have to do the same (I guess I'm pretty much talking to Javier, huh?). You'll be fine, I think...you may just have to redefine "fine" to fit you. And not try to live up--or down--to preconceived notions. Even your own.
Did I have a point when I started...? Thought so, but that was then, this is now...
Theres no right or wrong to bisexuality as there is to being gay or straight. I KNOW I'm attracted to women AND men as a straight simply likes opposite and a gay, the same. Screw labels or anyone who tells me I'm confused or otherwise. For me its attraction that tells me who and what I like and not about the privates. Do I enjoy tits and pussy more than dick and balls?..... no Am I attracted to men more than women?....not at all. Just by FEELING alone puts me smack dab at 100% bisexual...I would even go so far as to label myself pansexual but again Im not a firm believer in labels or society telling me what I like and how I should categorize myself.
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