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Discussion in 'Sex With a Large Penis' started by centauer6, Aug 27, 2007.
to all bisexuals here: what do you think about this?
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sorry, link doesn´t work - here´s the text instead Study: Bisexual Men Not Aroused by Both Sexes
Aug. 30, 2005 - Bisexual men aren't fully bisexual, a controversial study suggests.
In the study, bisexual men reported being sexually aroused by erotic videos of both men and women. But a device attached to their genitals told another story.
Gerulf Rieger, a PhD candidate at Northwestern University, conducted the study with psychology professor J. Michael Bailey, PhD.
"We used measures of sexual arousal to explain true sexual feeling," Rieger tells WebMD. "In men, there is no good evidence that something like a true bisexual attraction is out there."
That conclusion doesn't fit with the experience of San Francisco psychologist Geri Weitzman, PhD, who runs a web site listing bisexual-friendly professional services.
"I have seen in my practice very, very, very many men who are bisexual," Weitzman tells WebMD. "Really, there are so many bisexual men out there. There are so many men who say -- and demonstrate -- that they love men and love women and are happy with it."
Rieger and Bailey are looking in the wrong place for men's sexual identities, says Sheeri Kritzer, a Bisexual Resource Center board member. Identity, she says, comes from above the ears, not below the belt.
"The whole point of sexual identity is it is a validation of who you are," Kritzer tells WebMD. "This study perpetuates the idea that men are studs, that they go with whatever turns them on. It goes on the old stereotype that men think with their [penises]."
Sexologist Paula Rodriguez Rust, PhD, is the editor of the 1999 book Bisexuality in the United States. She says a person's sexual orientation is not determined merely by genital arousal.
"Sexual response is not everything we think of when we think of sexual orientation," Rodriguez Rust tells WebMD. "Bisexuality clearly exists."
Women From Venus and Mars, Men From Venus or Mars
Bailey's sexuality research tends to draw fire. His 2003 book on male-to-female transsexuals, The Man Who Would Be Queen, is still under attack from some in the transgendered community.
Last year, Bailey, Rieger, and others published a study in which they measured female sexual arousal. They concluded that women -- whether they identify themselves as homosexual or heterosexual -- have bisexual arousal patterns. That's because the genitals of women participating in the study became aroused when they watched porn, regardless of whether it featured men or women.
Men, they say, are different. The current study, reported in the current issue of Psychological Science, enrolled 30 heterosexual men, 33 bisexual men, and 38 homosexual men. Nine of the heterosexual men, 11 of the bisexual men, and 13 of the homosexual men did not become genitally aroused by the videos and were dropped from the final analysis.
The men viewed an 11-minute nonsexual film, followed by several two-minute sexual films and another neutral film. The sex films depicted either men having sex with men or women having sex with women.
The men indicated how aroused they felt by moving a lever up or back. Their genital arousal was measured by an elastic device attached to their penises.
Homosexual men said they were aroused by the male/male porn but not the female/female porn. So did their genital measurements. Heterosexual men said they were aroused by the female/female porn - and their genital measurements agreed.
Bisexual men said they were turned on by both sets of videos -- but their genitals responded to one or the other, not to both.
"The majority of bisexual men got aroused to men and only to men," Rieger says. "All those who didn't look like gay men looked like heterosexual men: They got aroused to women. This study fits the picture that ... men are very target specific. They have an object of their sexual desire and go for that. ... The pattern is that they have this object specificity -- it does not change."
Critics Question Results
Weitzman questions both the study methods and Rieger's interpretation of the data.
"The study methods are poor," she says. "It is such a small sample size. To make these conclusions on so few people, that is not good science. Unfortunately, this has gotten much more media play than it deserves. If you torture the data, they will confess to anything. It does not mean there are no bisexual men."
Kritzer, too, questions the study design. She points to the large number of men who were not genitally aroused during the study.
"About a third of the people had no response to any of the porn, whether they identified as gay, straight, or bisexual," she says. "The researchers said this means they had no response, so throw this data out. Yet they said that when bisexual men did not respond to all of the videos, it meant they were gay or straight."
None of the study's flaws is fatal, says Rodriguez Rust. The problem is with Kritzer and Bailey's interpretation.
"The problem with the article is that the findings have been misinterpreted," Rodriguez Rust says. "If you look at the study data, they actually do not show an absence of bisexual sexual response in men. A number of study subjects clearly did respond to both males and females. The study's conclusion -- that it remains to be demonstrated that men have a bisexual response -- is curious, because it is not supported by the findings."
Who We Are, What We Do, What Turns Us On
"We make a distinction between identity, behavior, and attraction," Rieger says. "Identity is how you perceive yourself. Behavior is what you do. And attraction is what I consider your true sexual feelings for your own sex or for a member of the opposite sex."
Rieger says that for most homosexual and heterosexual men, these three aspects of sexuality are the same. That's not the case for men who say they are bisexual - even if they have sex with both men and women.
"Bailey and I have this approach that sexual attraction is what really defines your sexual orientation: what feelings, actual feelings, do you have?" Rieger says. "In men, there is no good evidence that something like a true bisexual attraction is out there."
That's not true for women, he says.
"Women seem to have a bisexual physiological arousal pattern. Whether homosexual or straight, they show bisexual arousal. It does not seem to be related to what they really are interested in. This is very different from what we find in guys."
Weitzman says Bailey and Rieger oversimplify the many elements that determine a person's sexual orientation. She points to the Klein Sexual Orientation Grid, a tool that some psychologists use to determine a person's sexual orientation. Many factors go into this determination: attraction, behavior, fantasies, emotional preference, social preference, lifestyle, and self-identification.
Kritzer says bisexuals often encounter hostility both from the gay/lesbian community and from heterosexuals.
"The Bailey article speaks to a growing trend where bisexuality is seen as a negative thing," she says. "They think we are like unicorns, that we're fabled but don't really exist. This is creating an environment where it isn't even safe to come out in the gay community. But I say when a person who is gay or straight, and finds another person and has a loving relationship, we should be glad, whatever sex that other person may be."
Since it's clear that both men and women have sex with both men and women, Rodriguez Rust wonders why so many people find it hard to believe in bisexuality.
"Bisexuality is very interesting because it challenges the way people think," she says. "It makes people comfortable to think that this study shows bisexuality doesn't exist. But this is completely a misinterpretation."
SOURCES: Rieger, G. Psychological Science, 2005; vol 16: pp 579-584. Chivers, M.L. Psychological Science, 2004, vol 15: pp 736-744. Gerulf Rieger, doctoral candidate, Northwestern University, Chicago. Geri Weitzman, PhD, private practice psychologist, San Francisco. Sheeri Kritzer, board member, Bisexual Resource Center. Paula Rodriguez Rust, PhD, sexologist; editor, Bisexuality in the United States: A Social Science Reader.
Reviewed by Brunilda Nazario
I think it is an extraordinarily broad conclusion about bisexuals' way of being in the world being drawn from a very narrow data set about their genital reactions to watching porn.
(And once again, it reduces all male sexuality to their dick, which is awfully sad in this day and age.)
I love bi guys i am bi myself tho i love guys much more
And maybe they just didn't like girl on girl porn, maybe they wanted straight porn. . . .
I recently got told that i was a gay man pretending to be bi, but a straight man pretending to be bi because girls have done crappy things to me.
Interesting article...interesting how people can get things so screwed up, and the fact that these "experts" most probably aren't even bisexual add's insult to injury.
I've used this link in another thread, but for the sake of education, I'm using it again. BISEXUALITY
I'd like to know how they can claim that the results of their tests are reliable. After all, it wasn't exactly extensive, a handful of men and porn really means nothing. When one considers that bisexuality comes in at least 13 different forms; a bisexual can have more than one form in their make up (I'm one of them); that it can be expressed predominantly as either heterosexually or homosexually; and yet we are in "hiding". When one googles for info on bisexuality, you will find that most sites are GLBT and contain heaps of info on homosexuality, yet a couple of paragraphs about bisexuality. When bisexuality truly is the most complex and misunderstood orientation that there is, then I truly cannot help but wonder how they can be so negligent in their field. They truly have displayed their ignorance for all to see.
Frankly put, I'd rather rely on information conducted by tests run in the following manner, and what the results testify to:
Pat Saliba had self-identified heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual persons rank themselves on three separate Kinsey scales: physical sexual activity, affectionate relationships, and erotic fantasy. Saliba sums up her research: "Sexual orientation is complex, not simple." She found that people almost never rated themselves at the same point on all three scales. Within each self-identified group, there is diversity of ratings: all the homosexual persons and all the heterosexual persons weren't exclusively so, and all the bisexual persons weren't perfectly equal in gender preference.
She found that, among the bisexual group, affectionate relationships and erotic fantasies were "almost as important as sexual activity in their decision to self-identify as bisexual." This group also was quite diverse in the combinations of ratings among the three scales: some had only incidental sexual activity with persons of the same sex, some had only incidental sexual activity with persons of the other sex. While affectionate relationships were frequently ranked equally, "erotic fantasies were as diverse as those for sexual activity."
Saliba found "tremendous variability, in all areas" among all groups, "And yet the bisexuals are much more like one another than they are either the heterosexual or homosexual groups, and the same is true for each group." She also found that the way sex and affection are dealt with is more related to whether one is male or female. "Sexual orientation is not only much more than who you sleep with . . . but it is also where your affections lie, and even more importantly, how you integrate those affections into your sexual identity."
Let's start dispelling myths and become better educated about bisexuality!
Is a trisexual one who is only aroused by bisexuals?
according to the mentioned studies that would rather be a bi-and-a-half-sexual.....
As someone who used to engage in psychological research design, I have to agree with the critics of the study--the study cannot be used to derive statistically significant findings.
First of all, the sample size is too small. Secondly, the testing methods seem to be up for considerable scrutiny. Thirdly, their choice of testing measurement (that we can measure sexual attraction with homosexual porn (girl on girl porn is homosexual)) is not veyr valid. As they already found, many people do not get aroused merely by watching porn. Also, They only showed homoseuxal porn. I for one dont get aroused watching two women get it on, because I cant imagine myself in the scenario, but give me some hot straight porn and I am very aroused.
Guys (and girls), dont let yourself get worked up for this study. It woudl never be taken very seroiusly in the academic community. Its jsut another one of those curious studies that people then base lame yahoo or time magazine interest blurbs/articles that are only to be contradicted by another "study" two issues later.
Its like the Mens Health blurbs syndrome. Haveyou noticed their little health blurbs are frequently contradicting each other?
Sceince in the wrong hands . . . .
I read a voluminous book called BiSexuals - Coming Out In All Directions or somehting similar. It was sent to me by a woman friend who knew i am struggling in this area. Lots of first-hand tales of men dealing with being bisexual, either before or after same-sex or heterosexual relationships. Almost all of the guys ended up choosing to be with men as their final decision, in the long run.....
Tell me about it!!! I really have a problem with "studies" like this... I particularly have trouble with ones that one of the web sites I visit referred to as "sexism in a lab coat".
I think it's easy not to be aroused by girl on girl porn simply because it's missing that element of the male perspective. Showing two women twisting around and mimmicking male-female sex doesn't turn most men on. Some men are highly creative and can efficiently imagine themselves in said situation even if there aren't any men physically in the picture; but for the most part, a man needs to see another man getting enjoyment from sex with the woman in order to enjoy it himself.
Adversly, if you show a mff threesome, that can really get a guy off. It's not that he's not aroused by the two women, it's just that without the male perspective being shown, it's difficult to mentally inject that perspective into the scene.
In the study, they stated that numerous men got aroused by gay sex and I believe its because of the male perspective. Even though it's one man being sexually active with another man, the basic sex elements are being displayed and therefore it will trigger those points in a man's brain. It doesn't neccesarily mean that the guy watching it is gay, but he's seeing the actions from the male perspective and feeding off of the enjoyment displayed by the actor(s) which in turn, arouses him.
I agree with these completely because it's how I react to porn. Gay and straight porn work for me without a problem. Lesbian porn bores me more than Hugh Grant movies.
There's also something else.
I find myself adopting completely different perceptions when it comes to attraction. Guys can arouse me on sight. Women rarely do. It's almost like my arousal patterns with women mimic those of women themselves. I need to talk to them, see them laugh, appreciate their personalities. My arousal is born out of a small modicum of familiarity plus physical attraction. Straight away I know if I'm attracted to a woman or not. Rarely do I go beyond that to imagine sexual engagement the way straight men can do with women (or the way I do so with men). It usually takes at least a few minutes of personal interaction to see if the attraction is still there.
During masturbation I look almost exclusively at gay erotica. If, however, I've got women on the brain, I'd rather use my imagination to create scenarios involving hot women. Those sessions tend to last longer and can be even more erotic than those invovling men.
The attributes that attract me to men are very different than those that attract me to women. Even sex with women is very different. I think different thoughts, act differently; it seems some parts of personality engage with each sex in a way that is different from either.
I apologize for this poor explanation yet I can think of no other way to describe it without going into vastly more detail.
I think that's someone in the early stages of a relationship.
Aren't the three ages of a sexual relationship supposed to be:
I think I'd prefer "tri-daily" myself! :biggrin1: :wink:
yeah lot of bisexual men are gay thats not news to me. as far as I'm concerned if a guy were really bisexual he would be turned on by the gay porn and the lesbian porn or neither.
Women tend to be more or less bisexual in general, so I'm not suprised they were turned on by both.
funny, a group of people who not only find it their business to pry into other people's preferences and tastes, but who take it a step further and to waste money on a study to quantify that concept, and to make judgements and so-called conclusions, then publish them as if they actually knew something.
One thing that occurred to me was the validity of the data, first and foremost the assumption that they had a realistic cross section of "bi men", based soley on those men's self assessment of their sexuality. So... was this one of these studies where they pay cash for participation? Maybe a better analysis would have been to see how many gay men would call themselves bisexual just to get their hands on a hundred bucks?
And what possible application would the results of any such "study" be used for? Who funded this crap? and why?
It's just a study, period. I find it amusing that a small study could come to those conclusions. I just can't believe that it all is true.
I consider myself to be bi-sexual with a leaning to the gay side, however, I have been married and have children. During my entire life, I have always been turned on by both men and women. But, when I am interested in men, they have to be real men, sensitive but very manly men. When I am interested in women, they have to be feminine but strong. I do not like
Yes, I have my flings over the years, but today I relate my bi-sexuality more with relationships and love than with sex only. Yes, I have on occasion let myself give in to gratification only, especially when I was younger, but now I find an on going, monogamous and loving relationship more important. But, over the years, I have had relationships in both ways, with both men and women.
Porno, gay or straight, turns me off completely. My mind and what it can conjure is a better turn than porn.
That isn't how it works. Did you read any of the other posts in the thread?
haha, like posts in this thread represent scientific data. no thanks.