bisexuality in females and heterosexual men

[Shelby]

Now please grace us with your take on the topic doll.

My take is that the feminist movement's urging of women to lay claim to their own sexuality, to stop thinking of sex as an unpleasant but necessary duty along with the sexual revolution of the 60's opened the door to lots of new possibilities for sexual expression, male and female alike.

That ff is more accepted than mm doesn't surprise me. In my memory the term lesbian has never carried quite the same stigma as its male counterpart.

I don't know why. Rationally it's illogical for straight males to adopt this stance. In a broad sense homosexual males reduce competition. Homosexual females reduce availabilty.

 

[Shelby]

1) In your opinion is the female of our species somehow more inclined to bisexuality than the male of our species?

and

2) If given the opportunity to speak freely and candidly would an equal number of heterosexual women similarly enjoy the notion of bedding down with two men in that same fashion?

Sorry, I got caught up in the content of the thread. To answer your questions -

1) I think women are more inclined to bisexuality than exclusive homosexuality than men. And 2) I do not think they are as interested in bedding down two men as vice versa.

I don't know exactly why. I suspect there's something biological going on that outweighs social constricts.

 

[Ethyl]

My take is that the feminist movement's urging of women to lay claim to their own sexuality, to stop thinking of sex as an unpleasant but necessary duty along with the sexual revolution of the 60's opened the door to lots of new possibilities for sexual expression, male and female alike.

That was the intention, yes.

That ff is more accepted than mm doesn't surprise me. In my memory the term lesbian has never carried quite the same stigma as its male counterpart.

And it won't as long as there are heterosexual males who desire to have two women at once, achieve that goal and get a high-five from their buddies. I've listened as straight men publicly sneered at "butch" lesbians walking together and in the next breath talk about bedding two "hawt" women. Go figure.

I don't know why. Rationally it's illogical for straight males to adopt this stance. In a broad sense homosexual males reduce competition. Homosexual females reduce availabilty.

Statistically, there are now more women than men. Based on that, straight men have more options than ever.

 

[Lex]

Female bisexual chic is nauseating to me. In my opinion, this draws from the same male drives and logic that condoned polygamy and harems. There are simply NOT truly bisexual women in the numbers we're hearing about it of late. Think of how this feels to actual bisexuals, that their lifestyle has become tittilation for mainstream america- disgusting...

Women who play into this shit are empowering themselves as much as Jenna Jameson or Janet Jacme. They fail to see how they are caging themsleves within the same male power dynamic as always and remain puppets under the weight of adolescent male power fantasies (which drives comic books). These women should be drawing the ire of feminists everywhere--talk about a huge step BACK.


And Zora is correct, if women could, they would want to see men take it up the ass and suck cock as much as men want to see women suck nipple and lick pussy. I admire a girl who says--"I told me BF I would do another girl if he would do another guy--turnabout is fairplay." Indeed. I wonder how many men are willing participants in the fantasy knowing the cost involved?

Rationally it's illogical for straight males to adopt this stance. In a broad sense homosexual males reduce competition. Homosexual females reduce availabilty.

This was always my opinion whenever a FF scene appeared in a porno. I never really understood the appeal. If the two women want each other, then they don't want me (a male) so what is the point?!?! I can't get off knowing there is little or no chance of me fucking whoever is on screen. FF, to me, meant--Fast Forward!!

 

[madame_zora]

1) I think women are more inclined to bisexuality than exclusive homosexuality than men. And 2) I do not think they are as interested in bedding down two men as vice versa.

I disagree. Carnally we're just as interested- it's the social stygma of being viewed as a "slut", a word for which there is NO male counterpart, that stops most women from exploring their desires.

I don't know exactly why. I suspect there's something biological going on that outweighs social constricts.

I disagree again- it social, and very clear, at least to us.

White hetero males would take a lot less shit if they didn't dominate and control nearly EVERYTHING. While I understand that that's a heavy load to carry, especially for those who are in fact more expansive, it doesn't negate the reality that that's how our society has developed. While men like looking at us as assorted body parts that exist to provide them pleasure, we are sent the message loud and clear that OUR sexual desires are dirty. It makes men feel more comfortable with not trying very hard to please us, nasty little sluts that we are.

 

[Dr Rock]

The lengths people go to blame all perceived injustices exclusively on straight white males never cease to amaze me.

i was wondering when the insecure heterosexual male demographic would show up with their knee-jerk inferences

I mean doesn't it seem just a wee bit insulting to blatantly say women have no free will?

most people have no free will. nothing to do with their gender.

 

[B_Stronzo]

In my memory the term lesbian has never carried quite the same stigma as its male counterpart.

I don't know why.

Shelby.

I can sense you're no one's lame brain. I like your responses often.

But in all candor and with utmost honesty I want you to dig deep into that unbiased place in your brain and ask yourself why it's 'never carried quite the same stigma'. (especially since most guys you went through adolescence with probably had a male-on-male pubescent encounter at least once).

 

[madame_zora]

most people have no free will. nothing to do with their gender.

Hilarious, I was just talking to a friend about this very thing. People are limited by their own ability to think critically and make clear discernments. The vast majority of all people have very little capability of doing those things, so their freedom is corsetted by their own mental limitations. If you "just don't get it" that women have a lesser place in society, then there's a helluva lot you just don't get.

I know when I have the advantage in a certain realm, why is it so threatening to admit for so many straight white men?

 

[B_Stronzo]

Don't trust that friend for a minute mz... rumor has it he's a "stronzo".

 

[dong20]

How many of my friends growing up (who are now practicing heterosexuals) for example involved themselves in same sex jerk off sessions? No fewer than 15. When I ask women about the phenomenon of adolescent same sex experience I've yet to hear a single one of them state "oh yes my friend and I played doctor" response. Seems to me the male of the species in truth is more inclined to homosexuality. This is significant since most of my close friends are heterosexual women.

I'd be surprised if that was an atypical scenario; certainly as I was going through early puberty oh so long ago I remember being almost as curious about the physical development of my male friends as I was the female ones. For me it was a phase for the want of a better expression, and it never went beyond curiosity. Certainly as an adult I can happily appreciate what may define attractiveness in men to women or I suppose other men (though sometimes I do wonder about what women find attractive.) it's not in a sexual sense.

Essentially, when I see what is clearly an attractive man I may think, lucky bastard the girls must love you whereas when I see an attractive woman I'm inclined to think what lucky bastard gets to love you? So I'm shallow what can I say.

For the most part, it doesn't. Many women are afraid to admit they want this because they know most heterosexual men don't want another male in the room. Same logic as to why some women will engage in bisexual behavior with each other to get attention from men or out of plain ol' fear of boyfriend losing interest in them. Fear is often the culprit. Fear of what others might think or say. Back in the days of yore, I had one MFM experience. My girlfriends were aghast when I told them but eventually, one by one, they asked about my experience privately. Quite telling, isn't it?

I can't help but think, deep down, far more heterosexual men than one would expect and certainly more than would admit to themselves, despite what they may say to each other or you, or in the unreal environment of a sex based chatroom; when it comes right down to it, don't really want and certainly would struggle to cope with anyone else in the mix, male or female. Perhaps that's why it's remained very much a 'fantasy'. Something to be enjoyed as such perhaps played out on screen or in the mind or in somewhere like 'fictitious stories' here where it's no real 'threat'.

Surely any sexual activity, especially if undertaken unwillingly or out of a sense of fear is hardly representative of true desire. After all, if this was such an 'amazing experience' in reality as it's hyped up to be in the mind I'd lay odds it would be more mainstream outside the realm of pornography. This may not be limited to heterosexuals but I can only speak to my own mind and experience on this. As for the curiosity.... see above.

In the reverse, do you think women fantasize about two men? You bet your sweet ass! The difference is we lack the social power to strong-arm them into it. While women are painted with a broad brush as being meek and selfless, when you get women alone and they're CERTAIN that their words are private, they will reveal a very different story. Men don't want to think of us as carnal because then they might actually have to think about treating us as they'd like to be treated. No fun. Much better to see us as sexless pretty things that have to be "taken" to get into sex- we don't sit around thinking nasty thoughts all on our own, now do we?

I don’t doubt that for a second. While I do believe women may be more open to (re)evaluating their sexuality (as they are with most things) I don't think that makes them in any way more 'susceptible' or open to bisexuality than men. I do wonder though, perhaps, it may make them more willing to embrace that conclusion if that's where the evaluation leads them without the 'denial' that men seem prone to?

As for 'bisexual' sex at the behest of their partners? I think, in general, that women have no more real heartfelt true desire to translate that fantasy into reality any more than men do. FWIW I do think you do women an injustice by implying that’s how women really believe men see them and men an injustice by suggesting that is how we see you if that's truly what you believe though I suspect you're caricaturing?

Heavens, what sensible man would wish women to be sexless things and suppress or deny their desires, carnal or otherwise? It makes no sense, well not to me.

If you have to strong arm a man or a woman into anything, clearly they're not willing and that has to be wrong. Shame on either party for invoking or going along with something that is likely to have unpleasant repercussions somewhere down the line. Social expectations aside in some respects I believe women are their own worst enemies. As of course are men.

To cite the example alluded to by mercurialbliss earlier. Participating unwillingly (MB I’m not at all suggesting this applies to you, I’m just using your excellent post for material if I may?) in unwanted behaviors out of fear; fear of what? Losing their man? Nuts to that, stomp his ass to the curb. :tongue:

The same applies to men here by perpetuating the myth that such things somehow make them more manly or that if you truly loved me you would do this for me. I ask you, if you can’t satisfy one woman do you really believe you can satisfy two? Yeah, right!

Of course if you truly want to do it even once as an experiment, way to go and the above doesn’t apply of course. As for truer words being spoken in private, clearly I can’t speak from direct experience but I know you’re on the money.

I'm probably way way off base here but it's an interesting topic....

 

[B_Stronzo]

Jesus .. but you're a thoughtful man dong20.

You need to give lessons mon ami Anglais. I swear you do.

 

[Ethyl]

Essentially, when I see what is clearly an attractive man I may think, lucky bastard the girls must love you whereas when I see an attractive woman I'm inclined to think what lucky bastard gets to love you? So I'm shallow what can I say.

Not shallow, but human. That's how i'm able to make the distinction in my own sexuality. I appreciate the beauty of women as well as men, I just don't fancy women sexually.

Surely any sexual activity, especially if undertaken unwillingly or out of a sense of fear is hardly representative of true desire. After all, if this was such an 'amazing experience' in reality as it's hyped up to be in the mind I'd lay odds it would be more mainstream outside the realm of pornography. This may not be limited to heterosexuals but I can only speak to my own mind and experience on this. As for the curiosity.... see above.

I knew this would come back to haunt me. :biggrin1: IMO, fear and desire do not mix. My particular experiment was just that . . . a 22 year-old fearless woman with a sense of adventure. Imagine my shock and dismay when I discovered my experience was an anomaly. Two straight men and a woman? They must have been gay, right? I enjoyed it and don't regret the experience, but after I confided to my girlfriends and one of them leaked the information to her boyfriend who proceeded to make my life hell for a short time, I kept my mouth shut for years. It was infuriating to feel the need to explain myself when men weren't expected to. I grew tired of the assumption from those who knew that I would do anything with anyone (said girlfriends' ex attempted to use this information for his benefit when he pulled me aside one day and asked if I would be willing to participate in a threesome with him and my friend. Yes, what an ass) and it wasn't acceptable to many men.

I don’t doubt that for a second. While I do believe women may be more open to (re)evaluating their sexuality (as they are with most things) I don't think that makes them in any way more 'susceptible' or open to bisexuality than men. I do wonder though, perhaps, it may make them more willing to embrace that conclusion if that's where the evaluation leads them without the 'denial' that men seem prone to?

Insightful. I think probably everyone (re)evaluates their sexuality at some point in their lives, even if it's for only 5 minutes:biggrin1: . But evaluation is a natural process and young girls who are forced to rethink things in a hurry or risk losing their beau or general peer acceptance are the ones who lose, unfortunately.

Social expectations aside in some respects I believe women are their own worst enemies. As of course are men.

Yes, we are. Women need to stop being fearful about their sexual desires as well as succumbing to whatever's in vogue.

The same applies to men here by perpetuating the myth that such things somehow make them more manly or that if you truly loved me you would do this for me. I ask you, if you can’t satisfy one woman do you really believe you can satisfy two? Yeah, right!

Of course, when you're young, libidinous and inexperienced anything is possible in your mind. Reality, on the other hand, can be terribly disappointing.

 

[naughty]

What wonderful responses.

I am incensed that some young women are so hungry for love and acceptance that they will allow their boundaries to be breached in an effort to please a man. I can fully understand fear of losing someone you really care for but if that person is asking you to debase yourself then you really havent lost something you didnt have.

Not shallow, but human. That's how i'm able to make the distinction in my own sexuality. I appreciate the beauty of women as well as men, I just don't don't fancy women sexually.




I knew this would come back to haunt me. :biggrin1: IMO, fear and desire do not mix. My particular experiment was just that . . . a 22 year-old fearless woman with a sense of adventure. Imagine my shock and dismay when I discovered my experience was an anomaly. Two straight men and a woman? They must have been gay, right? I enjoyed it and don't regret the experience, but after I confided to my girlfriends and one of them leaked the information to her boyfriend who proceeded to make my life hell for a short time, I kept my mouth shut for years. It was infuriating to feel the need to explain myself when men weren't expected to. I grew tired of the assumption from those who knew that I would do anything with anyone (said girlfriends' ex attempted to use this information for his benefit when he pulled me aside one day and asked if I would be willing to participate in a threesome with him and my friend. Yes, what an ass) and it wasn't acceptable to many men.







Insightful. I think probably everyone (re)evaluates their sexuality at some point in their lives, even if it's for only 5 minutes:biggrin1: . But evaluation is a natural process and young girls who are forced to rethink things in a hurry or risk losing their beau or general peer acceptance are the ones who lose, unfortunately.




Yes, we are. Women need to stop being fearful about what they want sexually as well as succumbing to whatever's in vogue.




Of course, when you're young, libidinous and inexperienced anything is possible in your mind. Reality, on the other hand, can be terribly disappointing.

 

[fortiesfun]

This appears to be one of many gender inequalities. My life experiences as a straight guy tell me very few straight males are going to be eager to share a female bed partner with another straight male if it means getting hot, sweaty and naked in close proximity to another guy. Just my opinion.

I have no facts or figures or anything other than my own perception to tell me this tendency is probably more true for females than males. I say this only because women seem less averse to touching each and getting close to each other than men.

Great thread, Stronzo. Already a lot of action on it.

I do have some facts and figures on this topic, but like almost any discussion of bisexuality, exactly what is being discussed is a bit fuzzy and hard to pin down, so which facts and figures should be applied is also a bit fuzzy.

If, by bisexuality, you explicitly mean the most exclusive definition - three-ways involving at least one person of each gender where all are involved with each other simultaneously - the reality is that such sex is extremely rare. So rare, in fact, that it blips almost completely off any charts of self reported sexual behavior.

At the opposite and most inclusive extreme, if by bisexuality you mean sexual behavior with individuals of both genders, separately, over the course of a lifetime (even if you specify after early adolescence) the rates rise to a majority of the population. Surveys in Britain, France, Norway and the US all arrived at comparable figures where about 80% of men fit this description of their sexual behavior and a little over 70% of women. In this case, what is oddest is that even in self-reporting this behavior, only a fraction of these people use the word “bisexual” to label either themselves or their behavior. An astonishingly large percentage of them consider themselves straight, and use the term “heterosexual” to describe their behavior even when it applies to same-sex activity. (See a recent thread on straight men masturbating together while watching porn to get an idea of how this rationalization works in detail.)

I would suggest that what is clear from the little reliable research out there is that men are slightly more prone to occasional switch-hitting, but far less prone to labeling it “homosexual” or “bisexual” behavior. Women are more open to the label, but less prone to the action, though it is still far from rare. Media depictions, however, are not a good indicator of what is happening out in the world. About all you can track through them is how successfully titillating depictions are at arousing consumer interest. The answer to that is that very complicated indeed. How do you decide, exactly, what is homoerotic imagery intended to spark a bisexual imagination, what is bisexual imagery intended to spark a heterosexual imagination, and what is just sexually suggestive hoping to catch everybody?

 

[KaiDog]

While I appreciate your take on the topic KaiDog, I was more interested (in case I didn't make it clear) in learning the reality of a female bisexuality "chic" rather than the societal attitudes toward it. I realize what the genesis of it is all too well.

Well, I sort of implied that I think both men and women would be more or less equally inclined to bisexuality if expected societal values didn't get in the way.

But you state 'It's hot to watch two women go at it, but two men together.. forget it'. That's subjective.. it's your own taste you're recounting here.

You were mistaken, I was speaking rhetorically the attitudes our society has about lesbian sex vs. gay male sex. I didn't present any of my attitudes about either one on my post.

Much as you'd call men 'hot and sweaty'. Those are the very things which many heterosexual females and all homosexual men find precisely appealing. To us those are certainly not 'gross'.

I was trying to be funny calling it "hot, sweaty gay sex".

Similarly I suspect (though I cannot personally speak to the phenomenon) that to most heterosexual women the idea of being forced to participate in a mff threesome and "going down on another fishy pussy where their ought to be a cock" (verbiage used for comparison only!) is as repulsive as you find the male anatomy.

I never said I thought male anatomy was repulsive. Personally, I enjoy looking at long and thick cock.

Moreover, what's extremely telling to me as that without exception each respondent to this thread who thinks that the female of our species is more inclined to bisexuality than the male is a heterosexual male.

I think it has a lot to do with the perspective hetero men are coming from. I don't know how to explain why but I feel like it does.

 

[B_Stronzo]

YOWIE!

Boy that was an incredible 180 Kalidog but so be it. I think your explanaiton of your previous post is a good deal more thoughtful than the content of that which it endeavors to explain.

 

[KaiDog]

I was only ranting, but my rants are always misunderstood.

 

[B_Stronzo]

Great thread, Stronzo. Already a lot of action on it.

Thanks. I've been thinking about addressing the topic for some time and seeing some idiotic moron say on a sitcom last night; "oh I mean the cool kind of threesome" finally pushed me to post it. It's not the first time I've witnessed this subliminal message on network television either. It's pretty damned offensive when something gets so insidiously dropped into the dialogue of mainstream culture to such a degree that it's found amusing and the "stuff" of passing cultural dialogue. To not make note of it is to offend the sensibilities of those of us who realize there is room for all orientations sexually.

I would suggest that what is clear from the little reliable research out there is that men are slightly more prone to occasional switch-hitting, but far less prone to labeling it “homosexual” or “bisexual” behavior. Women are more open to the label, but less prone to the action, though it is still far from rare. Media depictions, however, are not a good indicator of what is happening out in the world. About all you can track through them is how successfully titillating depictions are at arousing consumer interest. The answer to that is that very complicated indeed. How do you decide, exactly, what is homoerotic imagery intended to spark a bisexual imagination, what is bisexual imagery intended to spark a heterosexual imagination, and what is just sexually suggestive hoping to catch everybody?

Amazing insight. Thanks.

What I was aiming at by using the term 'bisexuality in females' was (to be incredibly honest here) the heterosexual male mentality as manifest in popular culture. It was those very responses I've seen here from those very posters which are most telling to me.

I'm additionally grateful for mercurialbliss, madame_zora, and naughty who've all had their powerful say about the pressure for women to acquiesce to the myth. That's some powerful stuff.

Statistics aside, I'm mindful that popular mentality can often dictate changes in societal behavior and before any more misinformation is disseminated I'd like it clear that what you give for statistics seems highly probable to me.

The subliminal message I'm reading from the popular message just now is deafeningly clear and it amounts to this:

Being queer if fine if women do it. Being queer is 'nasty' if guys do it.

For what it's worth I've had no less the five separate conversations with seemingly intelligent heterosexual men who've stated without condition "oh that's not gay since it's two women" .. and then this: "women are more affectionate with each other so they're more inclined toward having sex with each other". (I've paraphrased certainly in both statements but that's the general theme that's recurrent in this neck of the woods).

 

[BIGBULL29]

I think women are more inclined to bisexuality than exclusive homosexuality than men.

I'm afraid it's the other way round. Men, not women, seem much more inclined to bisexuality by nature. That's why the jack off together so much as teenagers. They soon realize how taboo male homosexuality is perceived in our society and cease to engage in any behavior remotely homosexual in nature (except for "straight" male porn stars who are allowed to explore multiple male scenes without being perceived as "gay/bisexual).

Women are often talked into female bisexuality to either please men or to go along with the trend that embraces female bisexuality chic. As society has a broader definition of what a women is, they become more pliable to sexual exploration than men. In our society, males deviating from the male social norm
is much more taboo than than when women deviate from the female social norm.
Neither is accepted, but society is less offended by naturally feminine bisexual women, naturally feminine lesbians, and, surprisingly, the "traditional" bull dyke than any gay/bisexual man. That's just the way it is. Society finds bull dykes to be grossly unattractive, but not as innately offensive as a man who deviates from the sexual norm.

I do believe, however, the motivation for most girl/girl action in porn is simply money. They'll say and do anything to get a man off. Period.

I do know of women who love male gay porn. They find that "disgusting/gross male-to-male sweaty sex" highly erotic. In fact, a few close female friend have told me that they wish there were no women in porn--ever. Go figure!

By the way, how does openly expressing your dislike for the male physique as a heterosexual man hetersexualize you even more? I find that straight men often blatantly express their repulsion of the naked male image in order to appear more heterosexual. Are they repulsed by their own bodies? their own masculinity? the body in which they dwell? I'm afraid it's anything but repulsion. It's either they don't want to see an image of an oversized firehose to avoid any feelings of jealously/inferiority, or they don't want to get a boner over it. Another logical fallacy: straight men watch hard dicks all the time in porn. Does that repulse them as well? I sure wouldn't watch any straight porn if I were as repulsed by naked men as some straight men have affirmed over and over again.

Finally, thanks for this thread, Stronzo. You have indeed made some excellent points that would be hard to counter. You seem to have cornered the traditional female bisexuality "myth". Does it really exist. Yes, female bisexuality exists, but not to the point we are lead to believe. My theory has always been that women are more polarized to the gay/straight extremes than men are. Men are excellent at hiding all homosexual desires only because of the taboo nature of male homosexuality in American society. I think that the average straight man is much more curious to engage in same sex behavior than his female counterpart. I make this generalization only because of the agressive sexual nature of men. Look at the animal kingdom to help validate this statement. Male homosexuality is all over the place. Female-to-female sex in the animal world is much less frequent. Females tend to only like males, if they like anything at all. LOL.

 

[husbands_hung_well]

I know a woman who says she is bisexual but I think she is heterosexual and to please her bf she will perform with another female. Personally, I have been in a 3some 2 times and I am heterosexual and know it. Nothing wrong with being an honest female, it's just what has made me a more knowledgeable person!:smile: