invisibleman
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Black people and tattoos
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B_DEATHbyCARROT
Experimental Member
1 - Saying it was ignorant is redundant. All questions come from ignorance.
2 - I do not think he was being racist.
3 - I respect your opinion (even if I strongly disagree), but when you say this:
...you are speaking for black people. Assuming that what was said would naturally be offensive to all Blacks. Well I'm not offended in the least. There are differences between people of different races and I think questions should be ok as long as they do not come from a hateful or mocking position. I detected neither from this thread...
B_sugarandspice
Experimental Member
I know exactly what I said. There is no need for you to quote it. I am allowed to say that it was offensive to black people because it was. You may be one of the black people who did not find it offensive and I would recommend you state that on the strength of your own argument as opposed to denigrating mine by making it a generic one. I understand you did not find it offensive and I totally appreciate that but you should just then answer his question or state your support of his argument ... like I said this could be done more powerfully by not negating the valid opinion of another.
Saying it is offensive to blacks is fine. Opinion is fine. Including your own.
You're exactly right. The human eye doesn't perceive things in an absolute sense, but instead relative to the colors around it. In that particular tattoo, the pupils seem to be be bright white because they are near a lot of black and bright colors and the contrast makes our eyes interpret them as an opaque white even when they aren't. I've spent years training my eyes to be able to see colors in a more absolute sense than a relative sense, and it's difficult to do.
As far as I understand white ink, the ink and the skin it is under are somwhat translucent, so though you might get a whiter looking color, you're never going to get a pure white on any skin. Like you said, it's always going to be a mix of the skin color plus the ink.
I've heard this and I don't know if it's true or not. What I do know is that black skin photographs somewhat differently than white skin and offers more opportunity to light with a wider range of tones. It's a contrast thing-- the more you can create, the more contours stand out. The strategies are slightly different with different skin tones, especially on the extreme ends. With light skin I'm always trying to create contrast by creating more shadows where with dark skin I'm trying to do the same by creating more highlights.
B_DEATHbyCARROT
Experimental Member
We are in agreement then... Opinion is fine. We are also in agreement that you are allowed to say it was offensive to black people. Hell man I would defend your right to say it. My issue is that there was no dissenting viewpoint and a blanket statement was made. So here I am: The dissenting viewpoint.
I think I'm done for now. We are about to go in circles...
IGNORANCE REIGNS HERE RIGHT! This isn't racist ... just IGNORANT because it protends to mean something and yet it doesn't ... How would you know any of this for certain Ms Snoozan?
Um, I'm a professional photographer and have been shooting people and their skin as an occupation for over 10 years?
We are in agreement man. Opinions. I am glad we agree that we are strong enough to state our truths on this matter without descending into a farcical slanging match as often happens here on this site. I hear you though, believe me I do.
... I am a black man and have been so for 27 years. What exactly does your occupation have to do with this? Your take on photography is just your take, it is not fact, merely your truth ...
We can all take photos.
I don't get why you're so offended by this. We can take skin out of the equation and it's still true-- strategies for lighting and photographing dark objects is different than for light objects. There are even names for those situations-- high key and low key. I was just responding somewhat tangentially to Lex's statement that black skin makes muscles stand out more, which I'm not sure about. I was simply stating my experience.
Just like we can all sing or make food. That doesn't mean there's not room in the world for professional singers, chefs, or photographers. If my particular skill set wasn't needed, I wouldn't be making money.
I am not offended by your ignorance so much as your insistence. You can talk as much about objects as you like, only thing is people are people and objects are objects. I am not an object. I am more than high key, low key. By all means state your experience if that helps your ignorance, the fact remains that objects photograph different to people. I am a black person, not a black object so where is the significance of your statement. Is it not a further display of ignorance!
There is room for everyone and you can use all the metaphors you wish. The fact remains, there are those who require professional training and those who have an innate ability. I sing and lecture for a living. My singing is an innate ability, not trained by anyone other than myself ... so what means professional to you means nothing to me in that respect!
Maybe I am stating this too harshly for you.
Is English your second language? I don't think you're understanding what I'm trying to say and it might be because of a language barrier. I'm not understanding what you're taking out of my words to get so offended by.
Help? Anyone?
Ok you know what. I AM DONE!
'Is English your second language?'
I am well an truly done. Did you ask that because I am black or because you do not understand how you have offended me with your insistence. This is probably why you are incredibly lonely because you do not monitor what emanates from your mouth. I cannot believe you just took it THERE!
The fact that you admitted to not understanding just shows how you cannot teach an old 'DOG' new tricks. I am DONE! I am not interested in racism honey. If you want to make such comments go ahead. I do not play internet games. OVER and OUT!
AlteredEgo
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If I was white you could see me blushing right now. Then again, if I was white, the embarassing things which have made me blush would have made me angry instead.
AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEEE! I think we are having a serious culture disconnect here. I would like to tell a little story which may (pardon the expression) shed a little light on the story. When I was a kid, I remember riding the school bus one afternoon when two boys who lived down the street from me began engaging in a verbal sparring that many black people know as "putting each other in the dozens" or "the dozens" for short. Allegedly, this came from slavery where slaves were given moentary value for particular characteristics. For those who were younger , older or with flaws it was said that one could buy "A dozen of them for one good one" . For years, skin color has been made to divide and conquer within the black diaspora community. One's Africaness or African features (hair , color features) were looked down upon by the majority, a reminder of slavery. Both of these boys were extremely dark (Bittersweet chocolate or darker)and the dialog went something like this:
Jimmy: Man, you are so dark that they had to turn out the lights to find you....
Chris: Man, you aint funny! Your a.. is so black that ....
It went on for 10 minutes with the argument eventually dissolving into insults about each other's mothers, family members, dogs etc. Now, other people on the bus (white) had been laughing the entire time and were shocked when the boys began to fight in earnest and call each other mofo and etc. But most of the other black people on the bus knew what was going on. Even though it seemed as though it was an innocent game, both of these guys were trading insults that deeply hurt one another because for those very same reasons they had been made to feel less than or not as good by others. I am sure many who are white or of other ethnicities may not understand what seems to be uber sensitivity but when something has been used to deny one basic rights let alone privileges in life it does give pause.
Showoff,
I apologize to you if I in any way helped to start a firestorm from your question but I will tell you if a number of culturally black forum members (LIght and dark alike) had the same instant response it is something to think about. You may not have meant any harm and probably are feeling like "WTF is wrong with these people" 400+ years of post traumatic color stress may be a part of the answer.
LEX,
This is such irony that the thread has brought me full circle to understanding finally what the big deal is. No matter how anyone perceives a comment to be racist or not, I must say that the individuals feeling do count. I am sorry again brother for even seeming to make light of your feelings earlier this year in a similar incident. Though time can not be turned back, there is always a new year. I do hope it brings love and healing for all concerned.
Folks,
This may not have been one of the best years for LPSG in terms of the way in which we treat one another. Let's hope in the year to come that we can all try to step back a few minutes and think before we speak. Stick and stones may break your bones, but words can kill.
Jimmy: Man, you are so dark that they had to turn out the lights to find you....
Chris: Man, you aint funny! Your a.. is so black that ....
It went on for 10 minutes with the argument eventually dissolving into insults about each other's mothers, family members, dogs etc. Now, other people on the bus (white) had been laughing the entire time and were shocked when the boys began to fight in earnest and call each other mofo and etc. But most of the other black people on the bus knew what was going on. Even though it seemed as though it was an innocent game, both of these guys were trading insults that deeply hurt one another because for those very same reasons they had been made to feel less than or not as good by others. I am sure many who are white or of other ethnicities may not understand what seems to be uber sensitivity but when something has been used to deny one basic rights let alone privileges in life it does give pause.
Showoff,
I apologize to you if I in any way helped to start a firestorm from your question but I will tell you if a number of culturally black forum members (LIght and dark alike) had the same instant response it is something to think about. You may not have meant any harm and probably are feeling like "WTF is wrong with these people" 400+ years of post traumatic color stress may be a part of the answer.
LEX,
This is such irony that the thread has brought me full circle to understanding finally what the big deal is. No matter how anyone perceives a comment to be racist or not, I must say that the individuals feeling do count. I am sorry again brother for even seeming to make light of your feelings earlier this year in a similar incident. Though time can not be turned back, there is always a new year. I do hope it brings love and healing for all concerned.
Folks,
This may not have been one of the best years for LPSG in terms of the way in which we treat one another. Let's hope in the year to come that we can all try to step back a few minutes and think before we speak. Stick and stones may break your bones, but words can kill.
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Another totally deteriorated thread, nice!!!
Here, here!... Monster... now I'm sorry that I contributed my thoughts.
See ya later, Onan
It is nothing you are saying Snooz, the guy has a bee in his bonnet and he is determined to have at you because you said white and black skin do not photograph the same. You dared to highlight a difference. Maybe the thing he doesn't get is that difference is what makes us all beautiful.
If I say (as a brunette) that blonde hair and brown hair photograph differently and therefore require different lighting to bring out the best in each will all the blondes on the board jump me? (actually, I might enjoy that
)I don't think snooz is incredibley lonely - she seems to have plenty of friends and a great family - I suppose to a certain extent lonliness is part of the human condition and all, but I somehow get the impression you didn't mean that and were, in fact, trying to insult her.
As for her asking about your first language because you are black - well, that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard here in quite sometime, and that is saying something. I have news for you - there is a whole world full of people - all speaking many, many languages. This has nothing to do with skin colour but (mostly) geographical location. Grow up and stop inventing prejudice where there is none - the world, you will find, is a shitty enough place all by itself.
I don't think there is a way to put this without offending you because you seem so totally set on being offended. There is a plethora of difference in the range of possible human skin colour - each one of these varying shades of skin (regardless of the label society puts on them) will have different nuances and these maybe highlighted and defined by different methods when photographing the human being, or parts thereof, to whom the skin belongs. As a professional photographer Snoozan was pointing out that the lighter shades in the range require a certain type of lighting / shadow use as a highlighting tool and the darker shades in the range require a different set up, more to do with lit areas than shaded areas as I understand it, as a highlighting tool. There is nothing even vaguely racist in that. It is a statement of fact. You might as well be offended by the fact that there are different cosmetic ranges for darker and lighter skins.
You have to remember your audience here Lex, maybe you need to dumb down for us...
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