Black white achievement gap narrows in DC voucher schools

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Wyldgusechaz, Sep 15, 2009.

  1. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Everywhere in America the gap between blacks and whites in academic achievement is increasing, EXCEPT in private voucher schools, where is is narrowing and thats a very good thing. Obama wants to kill the DC voucher program, even though it works because he is beholden to the teacher's unions, who hate the idea of being held accountable or black kids failures. Funny that teachers in voucher schools get high performance.

    Throw a successful program under the bus and destroy black kids chance at success to soothe a labor union? Thats change we can count on?

    No thanks. What a phony he is appearing to be.
     
  2. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    That's because privately owned schools have better resources combined with a much smaller population of students to cater to than the public sector. A Brief Profile of America's Private Schools

    Simple mathematics, really. Although I must say, your ability to race bait is getting worse as you get older. Senility catching up with ya? :rolleyes:
     
  3. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    No you mean liberal baiting. Private schools do not have more resources in DC. DC spends $23000/kid in the public schools, and the vouchers schools get less than half that. They just use their resources more widely.

    I guess you are just another of those folks who say "I got mine, so let others people pay for black folks." Thats what you are saying.
     
  4. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    First off, I went to public school. So your last assumption about me is far off the mark... as usual.

    Besides, your argument trumpets that rhetoric a lot louder. As demonstrated in the link I provided before, there are a lot fewer people going to these schools than in regular public schools. A lot of it has to do with finances, as going to private school isn't free. The average tuition for private school per student is about $11,627 according to a web article that also believes that private school is better. Of course, you nor the article factors in that the average family income in America is roughly $45-$50K a year. Combined with other family necessities that you're happy to ignore, such as housing, food and HEALTH CARE, most cannot afford to watch anywhere up to 25% a year go towards putting one child through the private sector. Vouchers do nothing but bring more people to the table for possible consideration. It doesn't guarantee, nor does it secure a space for those needing an education. It does, however, bring to the table more unnecessary competition for something that is a necessity for everyone in order for them to survive in the world. We could simply better our public schools so that people who can't afford the private sector can fare better when they grow up.

    Alas, you don't think so... which doesn't surprise me in the least. Because as we all know, there is roughly a 75/25 acceptance ratio for minorities in private schools, with about 9% of them being African American. Number and percentage distribution of students in private schools, by race/ethnicity and selected school characteristics: Fall 2005

    We also know that there's a higher percentage of poor minority families compared to others. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why YOU would want our government to provide more to private schools instead of providing better services & curriculum to public ones. Most minorities would be eliminated out of the hunt just due to lack of finances. The rest would have to go through the selection process of the privately owned school where it doesn't always come down to a person's ability to get good grades. Sadly, you don't even realize just how many people of your own race would have to be tossed aside in order for you to live out your bigoted fantasies of having a superior race. But hey, as long as you can come onto a penis site and racially bait topics that expose more of your own intellectual flaws then the ones you're trying to demonize, it doesn't matter to you.

    And seriously, how dense do you have to be in order to assess resources with the number of dollars spent per student in the public school system? Did it ever occur to you that it's actually cheaper for people in any city/state to spend $23000 per kid between a working population of hundreds of thousands through tax dollars, versus one person or family being responsible for $11K a year for tuition? Nice try, though... REALLY. I bet you think 40 dimes are better than 20 quarters too. :rolleyes:
     
    #4 B_VinylBoy, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2009
  5. B_Mister Buildington

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    OP didn't seem like race baiting to me. I think calling it such may come closer, actually.

    ::leaves::
     
  6. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    The OP takes a valid issue that affects our nation, such as education and whether or not we should focus more on the Public or Private sectors, then throws in an unnecessary comment regarding success rates between blacks & whites and makes an outlandish claim that I'm one of those folks who would say, "I got mine, so let others people pay for black folks" all before I even mention the word minority. Yet, I'm the problem because I pointed that out for what it is? REALLY now... :rolleyes:
     
    #6 B_VinylBoy, Sep 16, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2009
  7. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    VB,You don't understand the issue or my premise. As usual.

    School vouchers are basically money orders that school districts would give out to poor parents, allowing their kids to go to private schools just like Pres. Obama and Pres. Clinton and practially every other Pres. was able to do with their kids.

    The district sets a minimum household income threshold that triggers these vouchers and concerned committed parents of any race or socio economic group can use these vouchers to remove their kids from bad public schools and put their child in an environment that might allow him/her to reach his potential. Right now the learning pace of any classroom is set by the worst, most disruptive kids.

    The issue that angers your liberal buddies in the education cartel, that true axis of evil between administrators and the teacher's unions, is it would introduce substantial competion for students, and parents would be easily able to GRADE a school on its performance. Unions HATE labor competition and would throw poor kids of any race under the bus to advance their labor goals.

    I do not get why black parents are not foursquare behind this education innovation. Instead, in their lockstep on their knees worshipping of the Democrats, committed black parents in crappy school districts are condemning their children to sub standard educations.

    Your posts indicate you do not understand what vouchers are. Read and learn please, and then come back and tell me they are a mistake for scholarly poor black children.
     
  8. TurkeyWithaSunburn

    Gold Member

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    Oh back to this subject again....

    Anyway just have to ask how involved are the parents in the lives of the kids? The more involved the parents are the more likely the kids are to succeed.
     
  9. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Believe me, I do.

    You make it seem as if every poor person will have a seat in a private school if they receive a voucher. Meanwhile, you're not taking into consideration that roughly 5 million children are enrolled in private schools, compared to the 45 million who are in the public school system. Where are these seats going to generate from? Which private schools are just going to open their doors to these people? Who is going to start building more private schools to accommodate these new inductees?

    LOL... that is not the issue no matter how many times you try to make it as such nor is this a liberal vs. conservative issue. Again, the issue is about making sure everyone has access to a quality education. It is possible to get that in the public sector if guidelines are met to make sure students are actually getting what they need in order to focus on their studies and not worry about anything else.

    And instead, they should be following your lead? A devout, and deliberately outspoken bigot who can only look at these arguments from a divisive, political and racial angle? Don't make me laugh... you're part of the problem. You act like poor people can simply choose for their children to go to a better school in a different district without it not affecting their physical, mental and financial state. Many times I told people that I was bussed to a school through a city sponsored program to bring minorities to better school systems in the suburbs. As much as I valued this opportunity, it was still a major burden to have to commute an extra 2 hours a day in order to get it. I had to do this all through grade school until graduation. Did you have to be up and ready for school, outside and ready to catch a school bus by 5:30AM at the age of 6? Probably not... which is why you will never be able to grasp where I'm coming from in a debate about education. I was lucky... I was able to get into a city sponsored program that made this possible. MANY OTHERS don't have that choice, nor could they handle the added pressures behind it. They can only rely on their neighborhood school system because of it.

    Your post clearly shows that you don't know what potential effects a program like this could bring. Vouchers do not guarantee a poor person to have a seat at a private school. It just tosses money at the problem, without addressing the issue of improving schools in areas that need the help. Just like Health Care, you act as if education is some kind of privilege where only the people who have the funds or the access should benefit from. How socially ignorant of you. :rolleyes:
     
  10. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Active Member

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    WildGooseChaz,

    The issue is that with vouchers you end up making the problem worse. It is a admirable idea, but the current voucher system's I've studied (my master's is in education) do not address the entirety of the problem, and doomed to fail.

    Here's why:

    Poor and working class parents cannot afford to send there kids to private school.

    Okay, let's give them a coupon (that is what a voucher is) so they can knock $7500 off the price tag of a private school education.

    The problem is that the majority of parents still cannot afford the $$ of private school - $7500.00. The folks that can, will migrate to private school and take a chunk of tax dollars with them. This further depletes the money needed to run the public school system -- making them worse off.

    Our education system is broke, and I agree with you that the teachers union has way too much power and is actually hurting students by protecting under qualified teachers, but vouchers will make the problem worse not better.
     
  11. sargon20

    Gold Member

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  12. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Meanwhile he doesn't know that prejudiced & racist are synonymous. Just more of that insanely laughable, ironic bliss. LOL!!
     
  13. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    There is a big difference but that is beside the point.

    Right now there are less private schools but if DC had about 40000 kids armed with vouchers for $10000, I would expect private schools to spring up.

    Just think, if you and Midlifebear and Sargon and SlurperLA, and Guyjin and NJQT got together you might create a business and help kids by creating schools that actually teach kids in an environment that is best for learning.

    Oh OTOH, that won't work. You folks despise America and it history. You socialists want the other guy to work hard so you can take their hard work and redistribute it to the proletariat.

    I have to give it to a hard worker like Flashy. He could get it done and prosper.
     
  14. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Not the way you engage in it, goosey. :rolleyes:

    No... over time they would eventually get overcrowded, making it harder for them to devote the same kind of quality & attention to each student as they currently do. On top of that, teachers would have to work harder for less pay affecting their own performance and willingness to teach. All you're doing is essentially moving the problems you don't like in the public sector to the private ones. Nice move, Ex-Lax.

    Is this where I'm supposed to turn on the boom box playing "America The Beautiful" and let you stand in front of a Confederate flag while you cry phony tears of political, racial dividing outrage? Spare me the bullshit, WyldBigot.

    *YAWN*... that "S" word again. Do yourself a favor and don't use words you don't know the definition of. Especially since your solution to fixing education is a plan that would issue Government Assistance to the less fortunate as well, and we all know you're supposed to be against Government issuing "handouts" to people. Or should I spare you the further embarrassment and call you a hypocrite right now? :rolleyes:

    What's worse, your failure of an idea will only affect the outcome of less than 1% of the total public student body in America, all the while providing nothing but the chance of being considered to go to a different school for what is promised to be a better education. You related to Max Baucus at all? I ask because his new Health Care Reform bill and your plan to improve Education have one big thing in common... they both suck. :rolleyes:

    Flashy and I have had many disagreements on this board in the past. However, to even compare yourself to someone like that is an insult to him. He thinks. You don't.
     
    #14 B_VinylBoy, Sep 17, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2009
  15. B_24065

    B_24065 New Member

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    No one debates the fact that voucher programs work. Thats a fact . The issue is, the Democratic party is more loyal to the teachers union than they are to lthe education of low income childrens, just like republicans are more loyal to oil companies than they are to an energy independant America (see, i can give examples on both sides).The problem is the teachers Union. 100% no debate about it. I wish liberals would do the right thing on this. No tenure, and failing teachers should be fired. Successful teachers should get raises. Just like the market place.
     
  16. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    No they are too busy selling poor kids, white, black, green, it makes no difference down the river and my buddy Vinylboy is right there stepping on their tiny hands so they can't get their chance for a better education.

    Nice work, you union lapdog. Get some knee pads if you are going keep fellating the teacher's unions one by one.
     
  17. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Active Member

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    Unless the voucher system is able to "pay" for the entire amount of a students education, it is a discriminatory practice.

    If I am a parent in DC and have an income at the poverty line. If I'm given a voucher for $7500.00, and the cheapest private school that is any good has a tuition of $10,000. What am I suppose to do?... I already struggle with keeping food on the table and now I need to cough up $2500.00 per year for private school. You might as well be asking for a million dollars... unless the vouchers cover the entirety of education cost, it is a huge subsidy to the middle class and does not help, but HURTS the poor -- as the students that can afford the voucher system, they leave the public school system, they take their state money with them, leaving a public school system that only has poor students and is even more underfunded.

    I know most people's goal by using the voucher system is to improve education for our kids, but voucher systems do not work and make the problem far worse.

    Let's fix the problems of our school system (and, I agree, making teachers more accountable for the success of their students should be a high priority), not make things worse.
     
    #17 mikeyh9in, Sep 17, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2009
  18. B_24065

    B_24065 New Member

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    ***
     
  19. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    And Uncle Ruckus proves once again just how ill-informed he is on the subject matter. Or perhaps he actually knows and simply doesn't give a damn? Either way, it sucks to be him.
     
  20. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Active Member

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    Great arguments. Very Republican in fact.

    Fuck everyone else, it doesn't affect me. Very Christian of you.

    When you have actual facts, or an actual arguement, let me know.
     
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