Black white achievement gap narrows in DC voucher schools

[midlifebear]

Without reading anything but the OP's first post, I nominate that Whyguzdchaz donate $500,000 US of his own money to directly underwrite private school vouchers. It's time he put his money where his mouth is. Anyone wish to second my nomination?

 

[B_24065]

Without reading anything but the OP's first post, I nominate that Whyguzdchaz donate $500,000 US of his own money to directly underwrite private school vouchers. It's time he put his money where his mouth is. Anyone wish to second my nomination?

How about letting tax payers keep the money they are forced to pay into a fucked education system so they can use that money to send their childeren to a better school. Nooooo, that would demonstrate way to much "freedom" and "choice" for you liberals.

 

[marleyisalegend]

How about letting tax payers keep the money they are forced to pay into a fucked education system so they can use that money to send their childeren to a better school. Nooooo, that would demonstrate way to much "freedom" and "choice" for you liberals.

That leaves low-income children with low-income education and rich people with functional education. Surely you can understand why that isn't such a popular idea.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

How about letting tax payers keep the money they are forced to pay into a fucked education system so they can use that money to send their childeren to a better school. Nooooo, that would demonstrate way to much "freedom" and "choice" for you liberals.

Fine... don't pay taxes and your PENNIES that contribute to the public school system won't even apply. Yes, that's right... PENNIES. You know, since everyone that actually does make a working wage in a city or state... that usually is somewhere in the tens to hundreds of thousands, or more if you live in a city like New York... all contribute and split the costs. So when someone like the OP posts the unbelievably high amount of $22K per student... imagine that figure divided by a few hundred thousand people. See that number that remains? That's YOUR contribution. As well as your knowledge level on the subject.

Mathematics. Great for the liberals. Not good for the retarded. Stick to things you know, like name calling and talking out of your ass.

 

[MalakingTiti]

Everywhere in America the gap between blacks and whites in academic achievement is increasing, EXCEPT in private voucher schools, where is is narrowing and thats a very good thing. Obama wants to kill the DC voucher program, even though it works because he is beholden to the teacher's unions, who hate the idea of being held accountable or black kids failures. Funny that teachers in voucher schools get high performance.

Throw a successful program under the bus and destroy black kids chance at success to soothe a labor union? Thats change we can count on?

No thanks. What a phony he is appearing to be.

You're premise is flawed, incorrect and quite frankly complete bullshit. I would point out all of the reason that you are full of shit but 1) it would require to much writing room due to those reasons being numerous, and 2) I refuse to indulge you since I know that is exactly what you're shooting for.

 

[marleyisalegend]

Fine... don't pay taxes and your PENNIES that contribute to the public school system won't even apply. Yes, that's right... PENNIES. You know, since everyone that actually does make a working wage in a city or state... that usually is somewhere in the tens to hundreds of thousands, or more if you live in a city like New York... all contribute and split the costs. So when someone like the OP posts the unbelievably high amount of $22K per student... imagine that figure divided by a few hundred thousand people. See that number that remains? That's YOUR contribution. As well as your knowledge level on the subject.

Mathematics. Great for the liberals. Not good for the retarded. Stick to things you know, like name calling and talking out of your ass.

Yassssssss! Get that read in! :lol:

 

[b.c.]

You're premise is flawed, incorrect and quite frankly complete bullshit. I would point out all of the reason that you are full of shit but 1) it would require to much writing room due to those reasons being numerous, and 2) I refuse to indulge you since I know that is exactly what you're shooting for.

Assclown??

 

[b.c.]

That leaves low-income children with low-income education and rich people with functional education. Surely you can understand why that isn't such a popular idea.

On the contrary, it's a VERY popular idea with those from the right who have been pushing for this idea of SCHOOL VOUCHERS for a decade now. I personally don't mind people sending their kids to schools of choice as long as they're willing to foot the bill.

School vouchers would have taxpayers pay for kids attending private schools, while these "private" institutions get to pick and choose who they'll admit, without being held accountable to the same federal guidelines and requirements as their public school counterparts.

Funny how those in favor of vouchers (private school on the public "dime") are the same ones whining about certain others being on the "dole". lol...

All of a sudden they don't mind a "handout".

 

[Ericsson1228d]

If I am a parent in DC and have an income at the poverty line. If I'm given a voucher for $7500.00, and the cheapest private school that is any good has a tuition of $10,000. What am I suppose to do?... I already struggle with keeping food on the table and now I need to cough up $2500.00 per year for private school.

You send your kids to the public school, if that is all your means allow.

You might as well be asking for a million dollars... unless the vouchers cover the entirety of education cost, it is a huge subsidy to the middle class and does not help, but HURTS the poor -- as the students that can afford the voucher system, they leave the public school system, they take their state money with them, leaving a public school system that only has poor students and is even more underfunded.

How can a voucher that the poor didn't have before possibly hurt them? Because it is not COMPLETELY free? The non-voucher option is public school. The voucher is meant as a leg up. If that leg up isn't enough, it is not like your children are left without a school to go to.

I know most people's goal by using the voucher system is to improve education for our kids, but voucher systems do not work and make the problem far worse.

But if the vouchers were $2500 more, they would work, I presume?

Let's fix the problems of our school system (and, I agree, making teachers more accountable for the success of their students should be a high priority), not make things worse.

I agree. Make teacher AND PARENTS accountable for learning. Fact of the matter, many parents could give a shit less about education. I'm not saying you are in that group, but many parents (unfortunately) do not care.

 

[mikeyh9in]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyh9in

If I am a parent in DC and have an income at the poverty line. If I'm given a voucher for $7500.00, and the cheapest private school that is any good has a tuition of $10,000. What am I suppose to do?... I already struggle with keeping food on the table and now I need to cough up $2500.00 per year for private school.

You send your kids to the public school, if that is all your means allow.

You might as well be asking for a million dollars... unless the vouchers cover the entirety of education cost, it is a huge subsidy to the middle class and does not help, but HURTS the poor -- as the students that can afford the voucher system, they leave the public school system, they take their state money with them, leaving a public school system that only has poor students and is even more underfunded.

How can a voucher that the poor didn't have before possibly hurt them? Because it is not COMPLETELY free? The non-voucher option is public school. The voucher is meant as a leg up. If that leg up isn't enough, it is not like your children are left without a school to go to.

I thought I did explain this, but I'll give it another try... step by step...
Governments only have a set amount of money. (ok?)
Governments budget for "education". (ok?)
If the state's public education budget is, for the sake of this argument, $500Million. (ok?)
Say 10,000 students opt for the vouchers to cover 50% of their Private School education.
Now the state needs to write a check to Private Schools for $75Million (I point out the obvious that everyone's taxes are being given here).
Now the Public school budget is reduced by 15%.

Who gets "stuck" in these increasingly underfunded public schools? The poor that cannot possible pay for the remaining 50% of private school education.

I know most people's goal by using the voucher system is to improve education for our kids, but voucher systems do not work and make the problem far worse.

But if the vouchers were $2500 more, they would work, I presume?

Let's fix the problems of our school system (and, I agree, making teachers more accountable for the success of their students should be a high priority), not make things worse.

I agree. Make teacher AND PARENTS accountable for learning. Fact of the matter, many parents could give a shit less about education. I'm not saying you are in that group, but many parents (unfortunately) do not care.

Yes, if the government were able to give vouchers that covered 100% of the cost of education, I am totally in favor of that. But, wait, that would mean that we would need to raise taxes in order to pay for them... and that would be in essence, properly funding public education.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyh9in

Who gets "stuck" in these increasingly underfunded public schools? The poor that cannot possible pay for the remaining 50% of private school education.

This is why we have PUBLIC schools. To allow everyone, even the poor, to access education.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

That leaves low-income children with low-income education and rich people with functional education. Surely you can understand why that isn't such a popular idea.

Yes, it's an example of the old saying: "You get what you pay for."

Pay next to nothing, and you don't get something as good as someone who pays 10,000 times as much.

This is why some people fly first class and some fly coach. It costs more for the better things in life.

It may be a sad or sorry fact of life for some of you, but that is the way the world works. Not everyone is driving a Maybach.

We do not live in a classless society, and the only ones who want a classless society are the ones who have the most to gain from a change in status.

 

[wallyj84]

Yes, it's an example of the old saying: "You get what you pay for."

Pay next to nothing, and you don't get something as good as someone who pays 10,000 times as much.

This is why some people fly first class and some fly coach. It costs more for the better things in life.

It may be a sad or sorry fact of life for some of you, but that is the way the world works. Not everyone is driving a Maybach.

We do not live in a classless society, and the only ones who want a classless society are the ones who have the most to gain from a change in status.

That way of thinking is fine for things like cars or airplane tickets, but it's not at all appropriate for the education system.

The education system is an essential part of a modern nations infrastructure. A functional education system creates graduates who can add to the country economically, culturally and politically. It makes the country more competitive in the world economy and raises the standard of living for everyone.

To say that a good education should only be given to those who can afford it is not only callous but incredibly stupid and shortsighted.

 

[midlifebear]

How about letting tax payers keep the money they are forced to pay into a fucked education system so they can use that money to send their childeren to a better school. Nooooo, that would demonstrate way to much "freedom" and "choice" for you liberals.

Nope. That's not my issue at all. I just think it would be more fun to spend the OP's money. If you're going to talk the talk you should be willing to walk the walk (as my late Aunt Elza was fond of saying). :smile:

 

[B_VinylBoy]

The education system is an essential part of a modern nations infrastructure. A functional education system creates graduates who can add to the country economically, culturally and politically. It makes the country more competitive in the world economy and raises the standard of living for everyone.

To say that a good education should only be given to those who can afford it is not only callous but incredibly stupid and shortsighted.

Exactly!
What's even more ironic is how some people don't even realize that the ones making more sense on this topic are those that either work for and/or have a public school education. Too busy trying to act like Aristocrats, meanwhile their attitudes towards people who are less fortunate are more like sewer rats.

No, I'm not a poet. :biggrin1:

 

[D_Kissimmee Coldsore]

Exactly!
What's even more ironic is how some people don't even realize that the ones making more sense on this topic are those that either work for and/or have a public school education. Too busy trying to act like Aristocrats, meanwhile their attitudes towards people who are less fortunate are more like sewer rats.

You'd think with a fine, paid-for education they would be able to see such irony. I suppose that takes intelligence too, though...

No, I'm not a poet. :biggrin1:

You are, you just don't know it.


I'll get me coat...

 

[mikeyh9in]

This is why we have PUBLIC schools. To allow everyone, even the poor, to access education.

So, now, some of my tax dollars are going to pay for *some* to go to private school, but, since I cannot afford to pay for the remaining costs of private school, I have to send my child to public school, which is now underfunded?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

So, now, some of my tax dollars are going to pay for *some* to go to private school, but, since I cannot afford to pay for the remaining costs of private school, I have to send my child to public school, which is now underfunded?

Certain people on this thread would never be able to see this side of the argument. And that's probably because they still think the poor don't pay taxes.

 

[MovingForward]

I know this is not the topic and I don't want to hijack the thread, but here in San Francisco I was a member of JROTC. JROTC is more than 75% minority students but 98% graduate and go on to college. San Francisco wanted to cancel the program due to the military link, but luckily it survived. Good program that's successful, that almost went away