Blame Bush

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Horrible, Sep 18, 2011.

  1. Horrible

    Horrible New Member

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  2. dandelion

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    link didnt work? But it does seem to be his fault.
     
  3. D_Percy_Prettywillie

    D_Percy_Prettywillie Account Disabled

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    Yeah, the link is busted.


    While I tend to agree that a lot of this mess can be laid squarely at the feet of the Bush Administration I don't care.

    Expending effort to clarify who is responsible detracts from effort expended to fix the problem. I don't really care who is at fault; my vote isn't earned by fingers pointing but rather by fingers... fixing.




    JSZ
     
  4. dandelion

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    not going to vote for anyone, then.
     
  5. Horrible

    Horrible New Member

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  6. sargon20

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    That's all fine and good but those at fault and their enablers haven't learned a goddamn thing and as the patient still lies in the hospital the medicine that's being prescribed is the same thing that put the patient in critical condition. Unfettered capitalism got us here and the cure is not less but more unfettered capitalism but this time around no hospitalization allowed. Next time let the patient die.
     
    #6 sargon20, Sep 19, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011
  7. Sklar

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    The Bush Administration actually turned down the loan request from Solyndra. It was President Obama's administration that approved it.

    Sklar
     
  8. travis1985

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    While I agree with your stance here, I wouldn't call capitalism in this country "unfettered." Any kind of business or industry is heavily regulated.....maybe not as much as it could be, but it still is.
     
  9. dude_007

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    Given the state of the union, I tend to agree
     
  10. Horrible

    Horrible New Member

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    Agreed.
     
  11. sargon20

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  12. dandelion

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    So out of curiosity, have they changed the rules back the way they were?
     
  13. davidjh7

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    Of course not---why would they do a silly thing like that and cut off their personal funding, er, I mean, "campaign contributions"? :p
     
  14. sargon20

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    The fascinating thing is 2 of the 5 brokerage houses that pushed for the change are now gone and a third is only around thanks to a shotgun marriage to Bank of America. We know a lot of people got rich thanks to the change but they get to keep that money and the cost is left for others to pay.
     
  15. houtx48

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    But But but what about the patients to big to die? It might come to pass the pocket of the government are not bottomless how many can you bailout without going broke yourself? When the government bailed out Chrysler they set into motion what the corporations of today can follow bad business practices and run to the government for help. If they had let Chrysler fail they may have not had to bailout the rest of the car makers that might have woken them up. I know Ford excluded.
     
  16. sargon20

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    Too big to fail means too big to exist. Break them up. The auto industry is rather different. They can't really exist without being 'big'. Economies of scale and all that jazz. I don't think the Big Three rather two 'ran' to the government for help rather the government saw if the dominoes in that industry start falling the price would be huge. We're already seeing what the falling dominoes of the housing industry is doing to the US economy.
     
  17. dandelion

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    The history of the uk car industry was years of subsidy which did no good untill eventually government pulled the plug. What was left staggered on and some car industry has now recovered. A subsidy is fine if IF it provides a breathing space to reorganise things right. If it just keeps the show on the road for another year without changing the reasons things were going bad then it is wasted. Which has happened in the US?
     
  18. sargon20

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    The feds helped GM and Chrysler through bankruptcy. No ongoing subsidies lest they run afoul of all the transplant factories and companies here. Tax breaks are another story.
     
  19. dandelion

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    yes but are they now stable or still in terminal decline just with a brief respite? I remember a few years ago now a report on US car companies, and it wasnt good.
     
  20. midlifebear

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    Chrysler and GM were mostly victims of their own executive greed. That, and they didn't have an original modern engineering idea between them. Ford, however, has been quietly positioning it's modern engineering, manufacturing and sales quite successfully in developing Asian, South American, and European countries. Ford had no need to ask or take any government loans. However, I've been riding around in things like the Ford Focus for at least five years in Buenos Aires and Spain. Only recently have these "old" models been introduced to the USA during the last two years or so. Nonetheless, Ford is doing quite well as an international automobile company. Ford had to seriously reinvent itself to compete against Peugot, Citroen, and Renault, all of which are seriously popular cars in Europe and South America. Only in the USA did Ford play out the old technology platforms until they absolutely had to meet EPA mileage and exhaust regulations. No more Lincoln Town Cars.

    GM and Chrysler are treading water using engines and engineering from European automakers until they come up with something new that will catch on. Neither GM or Chrysler are well-positioned in the international auto markets.

    Recently The Squeeze and I took test drives looking for an automobile we could both live with in the USA. The Cadillacs we drove around were cheaply assembled, had major wind noise, and sucked up lots of gas in exchange for poor performance. The MKZ Lincoln was completely sound proof and had lots of tit and feather options, but is was just a ramped up Ford Edge. Better mileage than the Cadillac and more responsive, but why pay an extra $10,000 for a Ford Edge renamed a Lincoln? Didn't make sense. Both brands, by the way, were way behind the 2008 Peugot 407 diesel we keep garaged in Buenos Aires. The most amusing (and comfortable) car we tried out was a Buick. But the engine and drive train is produced in Germany. Go figure.

    We ended up not buying anything, but the Japanese-made Infinity we test drove was very, very tempting. I also liked the new Prius very much. It was comfortable and, for the times, it makes a lot of sense.

    The auto industry in the USA is symptomatic of so many problems with durables produced in the USA. The execs have abandoned the means of production in 'Mericuh for stuff manufactured for less money in other countries. Just try and find new kitchen appliances not made in Japan or China. Anyone know of an automatic coffee maker manufactured in the USA?

    USA industry still has both feet firmly planted in the 1950s and the executive mindset is to import rather than retool and manufacture locally. If you own a Chrysler product I feel sorry for you. The quality built into a Jeep, for example, varies wildly. It seems that division has a "build nothing but lemons" day which they celebrate at least once a week.

    There's no question, even among many Republicans, that the G.W. Bush years were the worst in modern USA history. And despite what Dick Cheney claims, there was absolutely no reason to get involved in two wars where the military was coerced to hire privatized services from Halliburton, et al. There were no weapons of mass destruction, although many people insist they exist and the US military has just never found them. Yeah, that and only one gunman shot at Kennedy in 1963. But if you say something enough times it seems to become the truth, especially when it is not.

    Personally, I have no idea why Obama wanted to run for and take the reigns of the presidency when he did. If nothing else, it has fleshed out the deep seated racism that still smolders in the subconscious of a large portion of 'Mericuhn society and forced us all to re assess what we really feel and believe. As an aside, I'm interested what will happen when a non-white politician becomes Prime Minister of the U.K. It will happen eventually. But anyone who doesn't face the reality that G.W. Bush and company hastened the USA's current wallow into a protracted depression (it was inevitable, considering the mindset of USA manufacturing and Wall Street), well, denying G.W.'s role and insisting it's all happened on Obama's watch is just avoiding the truth. Has Obama simply exacerbated the economic calamity? The jury is still out. Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't very good at understanding history.

    Currently there is NO ONE who has a clue how to jump start the economy and restore the USA to its previous gluttonous consumer sans souci view of the world. Rather than posture, whine, and incessantly complain and bitch we would all do much better doing what we can for one another. And this advice is particularly stinging for the Tea Baggers who, as far as I can tell, have done nothing yet for the rest of 'Mericuhn society except bitch and moan. I don't see them helping out at soup kitchens, working along side folks at outreach programs helping lessen the burden of the unemployed and families being kicked out of their homes. Yeah, they -- especially -- are the most hypocritical wastes of human meat and grease in the country. That Tea Bag club is something only a fool would join; sort of a white trash country club where ketchup is considered one of the four food groups.

    Currently there are more humans living on this little blue orb than ever before who cannot be fed and accommodated, at least in the same ways we've been inventing human civilization on the fly. At least the Chinese tried to avert as much disaster as possible by trying to regulate their population with a one child per family goal. You do not need to be a genius or some uber human with great insight to see that it doesn't matter if a Democrat, Tea Bagger Republican, moderate, liberal, or devout (name your religion here) candidate is President. The economy isn't going to recover to its former glory daze. Just as millions starved during the Soviet Union's famous five-year plans, millions of 'Mericuhns are going hungry (and always have) in this "gloriouis" capitalist democracy.

    If you can afford it, next time you see someone homeless and living in the street, just give them a five dollar bill (or a ten). After all, all politics and political solutions are local. One dollar won't even buy a cup of coffee in the fabulous USA, so pony up if you harbor a scintilla of humanity. Even the smallest gesture of kindness is more rewarding than wrapping your self in fear there are imaginary welfare queens hiding behind a veneer of poverty everywhere..

    I still maintain a great emotional attachment to my native country. I've never missed the opportunity to vote. But every time I return things appear worse and it breaks my heart. As Dear Abby was fond of saying, "Wake up and smell the coffee, deary," that is, if you can still afford coffee.
     
    #20 midlifebear, Sep 19, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011
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