Bomb Plots foiled

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by dong20, Aug 10, 2006.

  1. dong20

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    This was in the news today. It's always hard to say whether it's a genuine interception or a real threat or hyped to keep us all 'on our toes' and thus malleable to further rights infringements. My cynicism on this is disturbing.

    I have to say though, the kneejerk reaction of banning carry on if it's true seems extreme, if that is considered necessary then the x-ray of bags is clearly not working.

    Plot disrupted

    Travel Chaos
     
  2. gprent

    gprent Member

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    The deal is they planned to carry the bomb components on in seperate containers in liquid form, mix the liquids on board and blow them up. There is no X-ray detection for this.
     
  3. D_Sheffield Thongbynder

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    Coincidentally, I was just reading about this online. My first reaction was to be thankful for England's vigilance. Every time terrorism rears its ugly head, kneejerk reactions abound (Patriot Act, e.g.). Good intentions don't necessarily translate into good policy. A friend of mine who was living in London after the subway incident told me that in the aftermath, the police he was once chummy with turned unapproachable. Terrorists make their impact felt regardless of whether they're successful in their plots.
     
  4. D_alex8

    D_alex8 Member

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    The last few times I've flown between Germany and the UK, I've certainly had to take a sip (and clearly swallow) from any bottles of water, etc. that I've been carrying.
     
  5. Irvy

    Irvy Member

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    I flew out of Stanstead on Sunday, glad I didn't leave it for a few days! As much as I love visiting my family in England, I don't relish the thought of being stuck there!
     
  6. Gisella

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    I'm not surprised at all and my cynism is different from yours bcause i think we are trully not protected by the many meassures that are in place plus we dont take really seroius the sophistication of those terrorist nets.

    On the ground of war the most powerfulls and sophisticated countries of the world is fighting with terrorism everyday and they can not stop their everyday guerrilla actions, they for sure are trying and giving their lives and innocent are dying and dying...still its a mess.

    Israel is having too lots of problem with the 'surprise' strenght of Hezbollah guerrillas weapons and etc..

    I do think that its a miracle nothing catastrophic happened again bcause there are still lots of security holes and for sure already cells inside and wth us just waiting to act. Yes lots of money are being spend in homeland security and many people workng to prevent anythng to happen..still I do not feel 'safe' at all bcause I dont think all terrorist are far away waiting to take a plane and blow them up but they are already here...:eek:
     
  7. dong20

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    Lucky! Stanstead airport isn't somewhere to spend any amount of time! For me this is especially irritating; I have been trying to get away for a few weeks and first thing this morning (before this broke) I finally decided to book a flight to Joburg (from Heathrow) for Tuesday. I originally booked it for tomorrow night :eek: but remembered a prior commitment and quickly changed it for Tuesday.

    The thought of almost 12 hrs with nothing to read but SAA's inflight mag is not especially appealing. At least it's an overnight flight so I may be able to sleep. Things may have calmed down a tad by then, well I can only wish. Normally I travel light so don't check bags so this is an extra blow! I plan to catch a connecting flight to Lusaka but have 3 hrs leeway so touch wood!!

    I swear it's a damn conspiracy; the same thing happened amost to the day with the BA strike last August. That time I was booked BA to Cape Town but they cancelled all their flights that day so I blagged my way onto SAA and made it only 1 hr later than planned. SAA bailed me out several times that trip so they are my favourite right now!! I hope they come through again on Tuesday!!:fingersx:
     
  8. dong20

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  9. steve2727

    steve2727 Member

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    You could still have taken a train and a ferry, much more civilised way to travel anyway! :tongue:
     
  10. B_big dirigible

    B_big dirigible New Member

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    There are a very large number of explosive chemicals. Any one will suffice to murder large numbers of airline passengers. No one test will detect all explosives, and all components of explosives. Ergo, using more than one test for explosives is a rather good idea.

    For any particular type of bomb, until such a test is available and the requisite equipment available at airports, regulating whatever the bomb or its components might be hidden inside is not at all kneejerk. It's the only sensible thing to do.

    Unless of course, "they" are trumping it all up as a plot to circumscribe our rights under the guise of counterterrorism. But in that case, wouldn't you expect that they would just arrange to have a few airplanes blown up - either by letting genuine bombs through, or - for the real Black Helicopter theorists - planting a few Official Government bombs of their own. The resulting disaster would cow the populace throughly and immediately, so that it would acquiesce meekly to any repressive measures. Hey, if you're going to be paranoid, think big!

    I don't buy the government conspiracy stuff myself. William of Ockham (go ahead, look him up) and I have agreed that it's not that at all, but is really just what it seems - another of those death cults which, from time to time throughout the past 1400 years, Islam as spawned. Note that even bowing to Mecca five times a day won't protect you - the classic death cult (the Brotherhood of Assassins was a good example) is primarily geared toward other Muslims.
     
  11. Expando1

    Expando1 New Member

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    This topic matter is being monitored.

    Hey, who confiscated my Dasani?!
     
  12. dong20

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    It was more the fact that the authorities have long been aware of this type of threat. There is ample evidence of the generally lax nature of airport security as 9/11 gets farther back in our collective memories. Of course they should act in the light of a credible specific threat but the MO for this type of device isn't new or unexpected.

    Kneejerk was probably too strong a word, you're right, but experience in Government and friends in the security services convince me that the many events are 'hyped' to some degree to reinforce the general sense of background fear and thus make it more credible to the public at large, thus creating a climate more conducive to further clampdowns, all in our own interests of course. And of course, airlines want to be seen to 'play safe'.

    Not really. Assuming that's what happened in the past (and I'm not saying it is) then they wouldn't need to anymore; the mere 'threat' would be enough. For the conspiracy theorists; remember aviation is a major source of tax revenue so too much chaos (actual bombs) would be counter productive. A little poke with a sharp stick once in a while is all it takes.

    BD, I think you're mistaking my cynicism for paranoia which would imply they're out to get me personally, I don't flatter myself that much.:biggrin1:
     
  13. DaveyR

    DaveyR Retired Moderator
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    I have watched and listened to a lot of news coverage on this today and would like to make a couple of points which have really angered me.

    A lot of the sensationalist drivel spouted by the press has been centred around the delays at the airports and the inconvenience caused.Whilst informing passengers of the situation is necessary this should not be the focal point of the news. There have been numerous interviews with passengers all moaning and droning on and on. This is a major operation that must change the way in which airport security operates in an extremely short time period. Whilst no-one likes major inconvenience just consider the alternative......then stfu.


    The second point was about a statement made by a British Muslim Fundamental group(It was on the radio and I did not catch all of it).They were objecting to the way in which M15 and the security services carried out the raids and arrests and how their civil liberties had been breached. What about the fucking civil liberties of the air passengers? We should be telling them to fuck right off with their civil liberties. British attitudes never cease to amaze me. (before you attack me I am British)

    Rant Over!
     
  14. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    I was so innundated with it when I put the bloody tube on this moring Dave. I too felt it was all focused (here from a this-side-of-the-pond point of view) on the delays and the disgruntled travellers. I consciously stopped watching since it was all repetition.

    Then I was on the road most of the day.

    I'm going to go watch now and see what the take is. But I agree. STFU.
     
  15. madame_zora

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    Same here. I watched the news of how OUR airport was being affected and the warnings for increased time delays. I don't really think disallowing open containers on the plane should be a big infringement of my civil rights, I also can't bring open containers into a bar or my local grocery, or any public bus. Seems like common sense.

    While I don't thing the actual event is any kind of plot, I do sometimes wonder if the media handling of a given situation has any bearing on politics- I don't think that's stretching very far.
     
  16. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    Let's stop kidding ourselves here... it's time for profiling. I'm sorry... yes, right after incidents like this ... there's copy cat acts... but the (largely liberal) media loves to tapdance on calling a spade a spade.

    It's young Arab Muslim males between 23-40 (or whatever the age is)... not some yuppie chick with a Starbuck's coffee she bought by the gate... spare me.

    Political correctness is costing this nation billions.

    The most riiiiiiiiiii-god-damn-ironic part of all this is the FBI, CIA and Scotland Yard... Interpol or whomever, started tracking these guys... (listening to phone calls, looking at bank account, privacy issues et al that many here scream about being violated) because of that EXACT SAME f'ing profiling.
    Thank god... we (read as: liberal media and politicians demanding answers as to how the CIA/FBI run... pick one person to pursue surviellance vs another) don't have the bandwidth to do the same with the said yuppie latte carrying consultant from Des Moines.

    There's big brother and then there's just plain SANITY and REASON. If the LA or NY Times and Moveon.org found out the criteria and methods by which these gentlemen were discovered... they (in tow with a luftwaffe of BU, NYU and Berzerkley lawyers) would do EVERYTHING in the power whilst leveraging the mainstream (e.g. Rather, Couric, NPR, et al) media to push their agenda.

    Right or wrong on the war, sometimes I shake my head on how severe the pendulumn can swing.
     
  17. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    The last thing we need right now, in my opinion, is a fascist state.
     
  18. jeff black

    jeff black <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    I am really bothered by this entire situation. Obviously everyone is.

    Without stating my truest feelings of anger and confusion, I will ask the simple question,

    Why the fuck does this keep happening. What will killing innocent people, on a plane prove?

    I don't agree with profiling, but this is really getting out of hand. And before I stop typing, I know a few of you are going to say "Well, the muslums or the Arabs or (insert culture/belief system here) are only retaliating to what bush did". I say BULLSHIT.

    Whatever happened to "two wrongs don't make a right?"
     
  19. SpeedoGuy

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    Profiling. Yah, right. So, by that logic, after the federal building in Oklahoma City was bombed by right wing terrorists all disgruntled ex-military white guys with crew cuts should have been questioned, detained and shadowed.

    In any case, I suspect we'll see more and more DHS terrorist alerts as the U.S. mid term elections approach this fall. Just like we did before the 2004 elections (and then, curiously, no alerts thereafter).
     
  20. keeks

    keeks New Member

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    It seems obvious to me that some sort of profiling makes sense... lets search YOUNG, dark skinned men from arab countries to start... and no, I am not racist.... I find many arab guys just as cute and sexy and don't think they are inherently evil, but culturally they are more prone to be terrorists... and to think otherwise is to be dangerously politically incorrect! If you want to avoid another 9/11 or something much worse, we need to stop playing around with politics and start playing hardball.

    And is it such a personal hardship to have to fly w/o carry-on or fuckin hairgel? Get over it!

    PS. I hate Bush and am normally a liberal democrat, so don't accuse me of being a right-wing plant.
     
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