Boy Scout Memories

[dudepiston]

I'm not sure what a little punta is....lol....but you can't blame the children. Kids need to be guided & taught about right & wrong, tolerant vs. intolerant. Blame the leadership.......

That sucks man. Isn't courage supposed to one of the Scout virtues? What a bunch of racist little puntas!

 

[Trigon]

...We boys are asked to 'sink or swim' in our sexual world, gay or straight, and very little if any REAL support is given. BSA (or organizations like it, perhaps there needs to be an alternate BSA?) should be a pathway toward tolerance.....toward support for EVERY boy....regardless of his race, religion, sexual orientation, or masturbation...

Sink or swim is our deal. Nobody signed up for it, but if you're a guy, that's your deal. Somebody's got to have some steel in their shorts! Should we ask the women to be the tough ones? To protect us?

Let a guy fall on his ass and patch him up later,..but Christ, let him take the fall and pick himself up! That's what we're in this world to do! We do the tough things so our mothers and sisters don't have to -- call it being or learning to be a man. The support you're talking about, even for boys, has to be earned; not handed you on a silver platter.

Prove you're worth dusting off, and you'll get all the hugs and kisses you can handle. At least, that's how it's supposed to work.

Nobody should be kicking your ass for being gay, but, we're turning dudes into a bunch of nambly-pambly sissies by softening things up for them all the time.

 

[novice_btm]

3rd generation
Grandfather - King Scout (equiv. to Eagle)
Father - Eagle, 2 palms
Me - Eagle 2 palms

 

[SirNeal8]

Prove you're worth dusting off, and you'll get all the hugs and kisses you can handle. At least, that's how it's supposed to work.

Nobody should be kicking your ass for being gay, but, we're turning dudes into a bunch of nambly-pambly sissies by softening things up for them all the time.

"Prove you're worth dusting off?" Dude, that's what's freaking wrong with our culture's view of masculinity! No one should have to prove that they're worth accepting, loving, supporting, etc. Here's a better idea: If you can't unconditionally support a child, don't have one. That's something that heterosexuals can do while we gays toss a rainbow of flowers and bubbles all over the world.

Okay, uncalled for. I agree. Sorry. There's a little of that not-so-hidden anger (from that inner child that men aren't supposed to have, probably)...

Anyway, check out the book Stiffed: The Betrayal of the American Man by Susan Faludi: Faludi [exhorts] men to stop thinking of masculinity as a quality detached from their humanity: "their task is not, in the end, to figure out how to be masculine. Rather, their masculinity lies in figuring out how to be human."

Now, I'm not saying everyone should cry and whine and mope whenever they trip and fall or hit their thumb with a hammer. But a true system of support for young people is ALWAYS appropriate, accepting them at a core level whatever their expression. And remember, accepting doesn't mean the end of personal growth. Rather, it allows acceptance of the self at that stage of development. There's always room for growth. So it's possible to accept someone and encourage them to grow. THAT'S how we should be treating people -- male or female, young or old -- in my opinion.

 

[Trigon]

"Prove you're worth dusting off?" Dude, that's what's freaking wrong with our culture's view of masculinity! No one should have to prove that they're worth accepting, loving, supporting, etc. Here's a better idea: If you can't unconditionally support a child, don't have one. That's something that heterosexuals can do while we gays toss a rainbow of flowers and bubbles all over the world...

Unconditional love is the province of parents and guardians. In every other developmental experience, young people have to earn appreciation through hard work and good deeds. This notion that you're born, and the world owes you a big hug and buckets of affirmation--that you're entitled to it--is rotting our country at the core, its youth, and it's certainly the ruin of the American male.

Your parents or caretakers owe you these things. The world don't owe you shit, until you earn it.

I think what you're suggesting is kind, SirNeal8; subversive, but kind. Too much kindness makes us weak, selfish, overly sensitive and soft. A soft man--not a gentle man, but a soft one--is a useless man, in my opinion.

 

[Craig1]

I was in the boyscouts for a month and the whole troop was filled with racist assholes who didn't want a black kid in their troop. I was also showing that I had more dedication and skill than their kids...so they were threatened and didn't want me to be a part. So I left. It wasn't fun without the support.

I'll agree.

I was in scouting for about 4 years, and it was the biggest collective bunch of assholes I'd ever met. I don't know if I ended up in the "alternative" troop for juvies or what, but they were altogether rude, exclusive, and out of control.

 

[B_Monster]

Got my first bj from a dude late one night in a tent at a jamboree, blew my mind also, lol

 

[SirNeal8]

Unconditional love is the province of parents and guardians. In every other developmental experience, young people have to earn appreciation through hard work and good deeds. This notion that you're born, and the world owes you a big hug and buckets of affirmation--that you're entitled to it--is rotting our country at the core, its youth, and it's certainly the ruin of the American male.

Your parents or caretakers owe you these things. The world don't owe you shit, until you earn it.

I think what you're suggesting is kind, SirNeal8; subversive, but kind. Too much kindness makes us weak, selfish, overly sensitive and soft. A soft man--not a gentle man, but a soft one--is a useless man, in my opinion.

Well it's all very debateable...obviously.

I don't think people are entitled to anything except basic human rights, and actually that is my least favorite attitude that I find in today's culture, bar none. However, I think that unconditional love is (ta-da!) unconditional in its scope and applies to all people, even the worst of us, and that it isn't actually just "owed" to us by our parents and caretakers.

No one owes us shit. True. I'm okay with that. But love is never "owed" anyway. If it is, it isn't love. Try imagining it as a default position instead of something earned. Now, granted that's a very highly developed love that requires a very highly developed level of consciousness that few of us (certainly not including myself) have acheived. Nonetheless, shooting for lower just because shooting for higher is difficult is the wimpy way out.

Sometimes people suggest that being too kind, too loving, too compassionate is not ideal. That it will make a person (or culture or nation or world) weak and feable. To suggest that such an approach to humanity would make a person weak is to see life through a world view that simply can't imagine it the other way. Have we ever TRIED it? Not really...so how do we know?

I personally find the argument that nice=weak so very banal. It's right up there with the notion that "might makes right," and neither of these gems has been very good for our world, as a whole. By learning how to live peaceably with each other and the rest of the world, learning how to share, give, moderate, mediate, and seek resoultion to conflict instead of the gaining of advantage (which is what we've always done, all the time in our personal lives up through globalism), that's how you build a world where you don't actually NEED to be strong because there's no overarching fear of being trampled if you're not.

Again, it's another worldview thing. It all depends on the level of consciousness your working at/from. So yes, I admit, it sounds naive and like something from the late-60's-early-70's...but I think there's really something there.

Another book to check out: Spiral Dynamics by Don Beck & Christopher Cowan.

PS (I'd love to be subversive in this way. I think our way of being and thinking in the world could be much improved.)

 

[SirNeal8]

Got my first bj from a dude late one night in a tent at a jamboree, blew my mind also, lol

Probably blew his mind, too!

Was this a one-time thing? I can't imagine not wanting a second course... And how did that even come up? Was that the 10% of you that is gay? (Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have passed it up either...just wondering...)

 

[kurios]

This thread seems to be going way off course with theoretical debates so why dont we get back on track.
Scouts was a bore to me a bunch of crap I never needed to know. There were no interesting times but Im sure many did have and that is what would be interesting to hear.......................

 

[SyddyKitty]

I wish I was in scouts when I was younger! ;~;

 

[Trigon]

...Sometimes people suggest that being too kind, too loving, too compassionate is not ideal. That it will make a person (or culture or nation or world) weak and feable. To suggest that such an approach to humanity would make a person weak is to see life through a world view that simply can't imagine it the other way. Have we ever TRIED it? Not really...so how do we know?

I personally find the argument that nice=weak so very banal. It's right up there with the notion that "might makes right," and neither of these gems has been very good for our world, as a whole...

Actually, we are trying it. It's called humanism, and its been twisted from a very useful communication model into a perverse free love, fear-free, shame-free, it's-all-good version of itself. It began as a concept which acknowledged individual worth, in the human sense. The new humanism assigns false value to every whim, however frivolous or self-destructive, that man chooses to indulge -- cowardice, envy so on and so forth.

Nice does not equal weak, or the other way around. Weak can be nice. Weak can also be mean, self-absorbed and violent. The weakness or softness I speak of is the erosion and neglect of a moral center--what beliefs you stand for and will fight fiercely to defend. A man without a moral core is a weak man, in that he probably lacks the strength to shoulder responsibility for anyone other than himself. He will be useless to his family, friends and a burden on his community, because he, lacking any real character, will be ruled by his whims -- fear, lust, rage, etc -- all of which concern himself. Such a man is soft, because he's incapable of committing to anything and will likely change allegiances to suit the indulgence of his whims. Basically, he's useless.

The Boy Scouts is supposed to show us a better way. It's supposed to take a weak boy, probably one lacking confidence in himself, and make him strong--make him into a young man, who, through trial and achievement, has proven to himself that he's worth believing in. Getting knocked down a few times is supposed to teach him an appreciation for standing tall, so so he eventually learns to pick himself up--solve his own problems.

It's not supposed to be about might making right. It's supposed to be about building strength through righteousness ..and sharing this journey with others. Sharing the struggle--not free hugs and kisses.

It sounds like the Scouts failed you, Sir Neal, and I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[silvertriumph2]

This thread seems to be going way off course with theoretical debates so why dont we get back on track.
Scouts was a bore to me a bunch of crap I never needed to know. There were no interesting times but Im sure many did have and that is what would be interesting to hear.......................

kurios:

Life brings with it good times and bad times and that was also true for me in Scouting. When I started, I don't think I had a bone in my body and wanted to do anything but be a Scout. As I preveiously stated, I am now on the outs with the "leaders of the organization" and sometime ago sent in my resignation as an Eagle Scout, including medals, badges, awards, certificates, etc. The Scouting that I knew and loved, and was a such a very big part of my life, no longer exists and I am very sad about that.

What I learned and experienced as a Cub and Boy Scout, has helped me in so many ways that I could never begin to count them. I learned discipline and leadership, how to follow directions and orders and how to give them in a way that made others want to follow them too. It gave me pride in myself and gave me a backbone to stand on my own, and to reason and to defend my ideas.

I learned how to take care of myself in unfamiliar places and situations, to live off the land if neccessary, and the ability to administer medical aid when needed. I learned to swim and the art of lifesaving, how to box and defend myself. I gained a greater appreciation of nature and the beautiful world around me. I learned carpentry, boat building, civics, history, how to raise and milk venomous snakes and sell the venom to laboratories for pocket money, and yes how to cook. I took care of animals, worked with the elderly and the disabled. And I learned how to get along with all types of people, whether I liked them or not. All these things helped to make the person and man that I am today. Every bit of this knowledge that was obtained as a Cub and Boy Scout has helped me and has been used in my life, in the military service of my country, as a husband and father, and my entire working career.

Scouting took a snotty nosed, whining, somewhat weak little mamas boy and turned him into a leader, I hope others looked up to and respected.

It is just a shame that Scouting is following another route now and is no longer teaching friendship, tolerance and service to others, but division, intolerance and hatred.

 

[SirNeal8]

It sounds like the Scouts failed you, Sir Neal, and I'm sorry to hear that.

Actually, I agree with most of what you've written above. And I don't think it sounds like it failed me. Interesting that you get that impression. I'm frustrated with their homophobia and closed-mindedness, but otherwise, I think there are valuable things to be learned there...

All the same, I didn't actually start this thread with the idea of having such philosophical debates and, as one other poster suggested, I'd like to get back to the easier, more fun stories and sharing.

Thanks for the dialogue. :smile:

 

[Fire Stick]

I was a boy scout, and I do remember well all the fun at summer camp. In fact, my first official roll in the hay occurred in scout camp. I was 14, and very physically mature for my age, and I was lucky enough to have caught the eye of our senior patrol leader, who was a very distinguished 16 year old Eagle Scout and who, as it turned out, had a secret passion for big dicks. Boys will be boys, and I fondly recall the skinny-dipping in the lake, the hushed late night antics, the horseplay in the showers, the comparing of dick sizes, and a few circle jerks to boot. I am sure that most of guys I am remembering grew up to be straight in their adult lives, but nonetheless, put a lot of curious horny teenage boys together out in the woods and you are just asking for trouble.

 

[SirNeal8]

Egads, it's so obvious to me that I was in the wrong boy scout troop!

 

[2322]

Egads, it's so obvious to me that I was in the wrong boy scout troop!

You and me both!

 

[Trigon]

Actually, I agree with most of what you've written above. And I don't think it sounds like it failed me. Interesting that you get that impression. I'm frustrated with their homophobia and closed-mindedness, but otherwise, I think there are valuable things to be learned there...

All the same, I didn't actually start this thread with the idea of having such philosophical debates and, as one other poster suggested, I'd like to get back to the easier, more fun stories and sharing.

Thanks for the dialogue. :smile:

Okay...I knew a guy from boy scouts (same age I was), who practically blew every dude at camp--something he said was routine in his troop. He was mondo popular because, unlike the girls, he didn't make you do anything for it. He also liked to duck-fuck, so I won a card game with him and got quite an education.

Makes you wonder, with all that messing around going on, how those Scouts got any real work done.

 

[B_henry miller]

I only made it as far as Cub Scouts. Thought the whole thing was useless. But I have one odd memory stuck in my head. We were on a bus to some sort of activity. A boy who had previously been my friend, saw me, and started to say, "Stop staring at my penis!" Putting his hands on his crotch. I hadn't been looking at his penis at all. He was just being weird.

All-male company inevitably becomes homoerotic, I suppose.

 

[SirNeal8]

He also liked to duck-fuck, so I won a card game with him and got quite an education.

Okay, I hate to say it...but what's a "duck fuck"? And...ummmm...assuming it's something like the real thing...did you enjoy it? :wink: