Nick Timothy, former aid to Theresa May, says she sees negotiating brexit as purely an exercise in damage limitation with no upside for the UK. May sees Brexit as 'damage limitation'
Brexit
- Thread starter Auggiecakes
- Start date
And here's another one. Breit would destroy the Uk space industry. Brexit Britain will be 'lost in space'
rbkwp
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rbkwp
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suffer ye fools
BREAKING NEWS
Britain's Parliament rejected Prime Minister Theresa May’s Brexit plan, adding to the confusion as a deadline nears to leave the E.U.
Tuesday, March 12, 2019 3:25 PM EST
The defeat in Parliament could delay or derail Brexit, and threaten Mrs. May’s hold on power. Lawmakers are now likely to pivot to other votes later in the week, including whether Britain would leave the bloc without any kind of agreement, a so-called no-deal exit.
Read More »
BREAKING NEWS
Britain's Parliament rejected Prime Minister Theresa May’s Brexit plan, adding to the confusion as a deadline nears to leave the E.U.
Tuesday, March 12, 2019 3:25 PM EST
The defeat in Parliament could delay or derail Brexit, and threaten Mrs. May’s hold on power. Lawmakers are now likely to pivot to other votes later in the week, including whether Britain would leave the bloc without any kind of agreement, a so-called no-deal exit.
Read More »
May will push her half asses deal through because there's no other choice now. She’s known that for a while. She's like a rattlesnake that's struck and just waiting for the rat to stop twitching.
Well today the speaker announced he will not take any further votes on whether or not the governmnt deal should be accepted.
Parliamentary procedure states the same motion cannot be repatedly re-tabled, unless there has been some material change. Which plainly there has not. The government has already had two goes.
There are several ways around this if the govenment wished. It could close this session of parliament and start a new one. Although that means all legislation in process would be lost and have to start again. It could hold an election. No tellings what that might bring.
It could get MPs vote to suspend the normal rules in this case. There is already this perfectly sensible way for the government to proceed. Except, the whole point of the rules is to stop people wasting parliament's time by tabling motions which cannot win. If the government has enough votes to pass the motion, then it has enough to insist it be debated. It hasnt. The news earlier today was about the government considering cancelling the vote itself, because it expected to lose.
So what the speaker has done is tell the government to stop wasting time and do something sensible instead.
As things stand parliament has rejected the deal, has rejected leaving with no deal, and has instructed the government to delay brexit.
If the EU do not agree a postponement, then the govenment really only has one course to comply wih parliament's instructions, which is to withdraw notice to leave the EU. Simply to allow further time for negotiation, of course.
If the government proceeds with Brexit against he will of parliament, well...on their own conservative heads be it.
Parliamentary procedure states the same motion cannot be repatedly re-tabled, unless there has been some material change. Which plainly there has not. The government has already had two goes.
There are several ways around this if the govenment wished. It could close this session of parliament and start a new one. Although that means all legislation in process would be lost and have to start again. It could hold an election. No tellings what that might bring.
It could get MPs vote to suspend the normal rules in this case. There is already this perfectly sensible way for the government to proceed. Except, the whole point of the rules is to stop people wasting parliament's time by tabling motions which cannot win. If the government has enough votes to pass the motion, then it has enough to insist it be debated. It hasnt. The news earlier today was about the government considering cancelling the vote itself, because it expected to lose.
So what the speaker has done is tell the government to stop wasting time and do something sensible instead.
As things stand parliament has rejected the deal, has rejected leaving with no deal, and has instructed the government to delay brexit.
If the EU do not agree a postponement, then the govenment really only has one course to comply wih parliament's instructions, which is to withdraw notice to leave the EU. Simply to allow further time for negotiation, of course.
If the government proceeds with Brexit against he will of parliament, well...on their own conservative heads be it.
Drifterwood
Superior Member
Is there a trade deal to be had that will be better than that already in place through the EU?
Parliamentary website hosting petition to revoke article 50 seems to have crashed at 9 am oday. Either that or the politicians took it own, because it was clocking up 2,000 signatures per minute and had already passed 600,000. But probably loads of people tried to log on at 9 when they got to work!
Or it could be brexiteers running a denial of service attack.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
Or it could be brexiteers running a denial of service attack.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
chrisrobin
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Its not a trade deal with the EU that's important its getting away from bully Barnier and Jingoistic Juncker.
The EU will not budge and hopefully the UK will refuse to sell Northern Ireland down the river.
May will not come back with cast iron promises just a maybe,,
Meanwhile Corbyn strikes again by trying tom get us out staying with a trade deal which means the JUK is still ion - and this from a man who loathes everything the EU stands for - politics before the country - a traitor to his class.
And May, she should just say this is deal EU or its no deal, staying till the end of May - the month not the PM - isn't going to change a thing.
The EJU has shown it thinks in all things its right - ask Hungary - and is totally intransigent.
here is one way to stand up to bullies and that's to kick them where it hurts - in this case a no deal exit - and show that when kit comes to negotiating for the rest of the EU those in career politics are only interested in maintaining the status quo and not thinking of the common good..
The EU will not budge and hopefully the UK will refuse to sell Northern Ireland down the river.
May will not come back with cast iron promises just a maybe,,
Meanwhile Corbyn strikes again by trying tom get us out staying with a trade deal which means the JUK is still ion - and this from a man who loathes everything the EU stands for - politics before the country - a traitor to his class.
And May, she should just say this is deal EU or its no deal, staying till the end of May - the month not the PM - isn't going to change a thing.
The EJU has shown it thinks in all things its right - ask Hungary - and is totally intransigent.
here is one way to stand up to bullies and that's to kick them where it hurts - in this case a no deal exit - and show that when kit comes to negotiating for the rest of the EU those in career politics are only interested in maintaining the status quo and not thinking of the common good..
Er what? Neither one has an important job. Barnier is only negotiating with us because we asked to leave. If we hadnt done so, no one would ever have heard of him. Juncker has a non-job, as the decisions of the EU are made by the council, which is one member sent by each state. It is this body the government deal is proposing we leave, while staying in the EU trade deal. Which is a very bad deal when remaining a full member is so much better.
The government deal says we will assiduously and in good faith negotiate and conclude a trade deal with the EU which is closer than just a customs union as defined in the WA backstop, and will include existing EU employment and social provisions. We also agree to work for closer unification of N and S Ireland. If we dont, they can take us to arbitration and impose sanctions against us.
rbkwp
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TIME
running out for the failed BREXSHT
the worlds sick of it
the Euros are sick of it
thee overfed pommie politicians dont know if theyre Arthur or Martha
F'em all
how about the march less than a few hours sgo
wheres big noter Boris
wheres shead Cameron
a;ll as big a joke as the USA currently
![1_TBwqRMpxvVJvXLKWU_tc6W3d7M06aTwSDpLQsjRvMN55Qt0Q9-AfsIOsRitGD7inZFlgxXhumb281FQRaiQyA91Owa4lcwtiexHNZ6DxJ9s-4jQM_0gkmYDwT8=s0-d-e1-ft]()
running out for the failed BREXSHT
the worlds sick of it
the Euros are sick of it
thee overfed pommie politicians dont know if theyre Arthur or Martha
F'em all
how about the march less than a few hours sgo
wheres big noter Boris
wheres shead Cameron
a;ll as big a joke as the USA currently
HorseHung40's
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As an outsider, who has lived in Germany for an extended period of time, and, who has read British media headlines and articles with respect to the European Union (EU) over the years, I would like to contribute my perspective on this.
The notion of the EU and its predecessors was to prevent another war on the continent. This goal was to be achieved by interlinking the economies and societal values to such a degree so as to make another war impossible.
The British have always been an independently minded nation, born in large part from being on an island.
In my opinion, they had never fully ascribed to the European values set forth by the EU. One could see this in media articles in which various European initiatives were ridiculed. The average person would parrot this Fleet Street propaganda. Often their uninformed remarks were followed by some comment that the EU was Germany's latest attempt at dominating Europe to which I would counter with, "Then why did the UK join, if it felt that way?". That was always met with either a blank stare or another prejudiced comment.
Several years ago, the UK decided that membership in the EU was not for it. Good for the UK! I think that the decision to leave is the right one for this country. Suddenly, among a vocal subset of its population, there is a desire to stay. I think this unwise. If it were to stay, it would invariably return to making stupid, negative and uninformed remarks about European institutions or member states.
Please go.
The notion of the EU and its predecessors was to prevent another war on the continent. This goal was to be achieved by interlinking the economies and societal values to such a degree so as to make another war impossible.
The British have always been an independently minded nation, born in large part from being on an island.
In my opinion, they had never fully ascribed to the European values set forth by the EU. One could see this in media articles in which various European initiatives were ridiculed. The average person would parrot this Fleet Street propaganda. Often their uninformed remarks were followed by some comment that the EU was Germany's latest attempt at dominating Europe to which I would counter with, "Then why did the UK join, if it felt that way?". That was always met with either a blank stare or another prejudiced comment.
Several years ago, the UK decided that membership in the EU was not for it. Good for the UK! I think that the decision to leave is the right one for this country. Suddenly, among a vocal subset of its population, there is a desire to stay. I think this unwise. If it were to stay, it would invariably return to making stupid, negative and uninformed remarks about European institutions or member states.
Please go.
Drifterwood
Superior Member
Unfortunately there are a lot of us who want to stay. We don't think of Europeans as foreigners. We think this is where the UK should be going. Unfortunately slightly more people were persuaded by populist slogan propaganda to make us leave.
The demographics are with Remaining, or perhaps Returning. We have to apologise for our parents on this one.
chrisrobin
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There are a great many people who want to leave the EU.
In its original concept is was fine, even enlarged it was fine but then the desire to be bigger and bigger and to have nations become members who had diverging views on what the EU stood became the catalyst for its demise. With over 20 countries all fighting for the best deal it became every country out for itself regardless of the common good - a truly human trait to have. The problems got worse when the EU Commissioners found that with little favors here and there they could sway voting and decisions. When David Cameron publicly went against JP Juncker on the grounds he was not suitable, a drink problem, biased in favor of an enlarged EU etc on his election Juncker then used his position to humiliate the UK for the Cameron rebuke.
As an island we are more in tune with protecting our borders, yet the EU mainland is so full of holes you can drive a lorry though most of them, the multi million Euro deal with Turkey did stem some of the flow but even now there is no one plan, agreed by all nations, to restrict the flow, to make sure all the illegal immigrants have proper paper work 0 given on the pint of safe entry. Hence in France hundreds of illegals try to get to the |UK and yet, and yet the French authorities do nothing to give the illegal immigrants papers, preferring to let incidents be an embarrassment, and even the token shows of joint action are nothing more than words.
The French, who the UK "helped twice last century is eager to prevaricate and not help. When the Netherlands said it would install new equipment at his docks to reduce delays after Brexit using technology that's already being used elsewhere in the EU it was the French who objected and insisted the Netherlands did nothing as it would reduce the amount of trade passing through French ports. And oh yes, this is technology that could be adapted for the Irish border that the EU Commissioners say doesn't exist. The actions of the French and German presidents giving off the cuff briefings instead of leaving it to the negotiators - who also are guilty of off the cuff "burn in hell" briefings all contribute to a desire of the UK's people to leave a group that cannot be trusted, and, in a club like the EU trust should be, but alas isn't, the byword.
There is though no doubt that the entire debacle of the negotiations has been handled very badly by a UK team who allowed the weight of the EU to dominate. Where they should have walked they didn't, and now they have reduced the UK to hoping for a miracle when they should be saying. all we want is, in writing assurances or we walk. Alas with a week PM who has opted for a delay, and the EU smelling blood have agreed scurrilous terms knowing that the bill to go before the house, which has been defeated twice will probably fall again, the EU will turn, smile and be parsimonious all the time hoping that Exit fails and we remain in the EU the very naughty child, and not be allowed to play with the grown ups, not have a voice that's listened to and be there just to make up the numbers and pay a vast amount of money to be squandered.
In its original concept is was fine, even enlarged it was fine but then the desire to be bigger and bigger and to have nations become members who had diverging views on what the EU stood became the catalyst for its demise. With over 20 countries all fighting for the best deal it became every country out for itself regardless of the common good - a truly human trait to have. The problems got worse when the EU Commissioners found that with little favors here and there they could sway voting and decisions. When David Cameron publicly went against JP Juncker on the grounds he was not suitable, a drink problem, biased in favor of an enlarged EU etc on his election Juncker then used his position to humiliate the UK for the Cameron rebuke.
As an island we are more in tune with protecting our borders, yet the EU mainland is so full of holes you can drive a lorry though most of them, the multi million Euro deal with Turkey did stem some of the flow but even now there is no one plan, agreed by all nations, to restrict the flow, to make sure all the illegal immigrants have proper paper work 0 given on the pint of safe entry. Hence in France hundreds of illegals try to get to the |UK and yet, and yet the French authorities do nothing to give the illegal immigrants papers, preferring to let incidents be an embarrassment, and even the token shows of joint action are nothing more than words.
The French, who the UK "helped twice last century is eager to prevaricate and not help. When the Netherlands said it would install new equipment at his docks to reduce delays after Brexit using technology that's already being used elsewhere in the EU it was the French who objected and insisted the Netherlands did nothing as it would reduce the amount of trade passing through French ports. And oh yes, this is technology that could be adapted for the Irish border that the EU Commissioners say doesn't exist. The actions of the French and German presidents giving off the cuff briefings instead of leaving it to the negotiators - who also are guilty of off the cuff "burn in hell" briefings all contribute to a desire of the UK's people to leave a group that cannot be trusted, and, in a club like the EU trust should be, but alas isn't, the byword.
There is though no doubt that the entire debacle of the negotiations has been handled very badly by a UK team who allowed the weight of the EU to dominate. Where they should have walked they didn't, and now they have reduced the UK to hoping for a miracle when they should be saying. all we want is, in writing assurances or we walk. Alas with a week PM who has opted for a delay, and the EU smelling blood have agreed scurrilous terms knowing that the bill to go before the house, which has been defeated twice will probably fall again, the EU will turn, smile and be parsimonious all the time hoping that Exit fails and we remain in the EU the very naughty child, and not be allowed to play with the grown ups, not have a voice that's listened to and be there just to make up the numbers and pay a vast amount of money to be squandered.
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