Brexit

[dandelion]

Report says the government's proposed minimum wage for immigrant workers is too high and needs to be reduced to prevent economic disruption. Also that its proposed new points based system will hit growth in the Uk. Obviously, because it wil restrict labout coming to the UK in shortage areas.

The EU system has worked brilliantly to meet Uk labour needs. The people who can come freely is restricted to members of the EU, which are all pretty rich countries by world standards. They are predominantly white, and with similar cultural backgrounds to the Uk majority residents. They have the brilliant advantage that they also have the right to freely move back to their original country, or indeed anywhere else inside the EU, so they are more likely to depart the Uk again in the future, rather than stay here permanently. The scheme had minimal administrative costs, and has worked so well no government has ever enforced the terms it includes to deport people if they do not find work here.

Instead the government wants a very expensive scheme involving vetting all immigrants and treating them equally from all over the world, even though some of those most in favour of Brexit wanted it so as to ban all future immigration. Certainly not change the people coming her for more ethnically diverse ones than now!

 

[dandelion]

Latest yougov, 54% remain, 46% leave. Remain support gone up a touch.

 

[rbkwp]

Latest yougov, 54% remain, 46% leave. Remain support gone up a touch.

honestly dont know wether one should be saying congratulations just for the fact there is a conclusion
either way,time to say
GOOD LUCK UK

Latest yougov, 54% remain, 46% leave. Remain support gone up a touch.

 

[dandelion]

honestly dont know wether one should be saying congratulations just for the fact there is a conclusion either way, time to say GOOD LUCK UK

There is no conclusion to Brexit. Wont be for years, and I still think the final act will bring the Uk back to being a full member of the EU. This issue isnt going to go away. There is a one year countdown now to leaving taking effect, but nothing whatever is know about how things will be then. All that has happned is a new deadline has been imposed for changes to happen to the relationship of the Uk and EU.

There are broadly three possible outcomes.
1) The UK has a weak formal relationship with the EU, but informally follows rules dictated by the EU.
2) The UK has a strong formal relationship witht the EU and up front accepts it is following EU rules.
3) the UK rejoins, follows the rules, but also makes them.

The Brexit delusion has been that its is posible to gain sovereignty by leaving the EU. The only sort of sovereignty you get by doing that is the sort Queen Elizabeth has. There is NOTHING the british sovereign monarch can do of her own volition in running the country. It is an empty title. She does what the big boys tell her to do. And that is exactly what Brexit means for Britain.

Norway ended up half in and half out of the EU, option 2. I think May showed Brexiteers will not accept that. They will learn the hard way that option 1 amounts to the same thing and is just as unacceptable for them. The only way to increase UK sovereignty is to join the EU.

 

[rbkwp]

There is no conclusion to Brexit. Wont be for years, and I still think the final act will bring the Uk back to being a full member of the EU. This issue isnt going to go away. There is a one year countdown now to leaving taking effect, but nothing whatever is know about how things will be then. All that has happned is a new deadline has been imposed for changes to happen to the relationship of the Uk and EU.

There are broadly three possible outcomes.
1) The UK has a weak formal relationship with the EU, but informally follows rules dictated by the EU.
2) The UK has a strong formal relationship witht the EU and up front accepts it is following EU rules.
3) the UK rejoins, follows the rules, but also makes them.

The Brexit delusion has been that its is posible to gain sovereignty by leaving the EU. The only sort of sovereignty you get by doing that is the sort Queen Elizabeth has. There is NOTHING the british sovereign monarch can do of her own volition in running the country. It is an empty title. She does what the big boys tell her to do. And that is exactly what Brexit means for Britain.

Norway ended up half in and half out of the EU, option 2. I think May showed Brexiteers will not accept that. They will learn the hard way that option 1 amounts to the same thing and is just as unacceptable for them. The only way to increase UK sovereignty is to join the EU.

smile
your on the scene,either way good luck dands
smile 10 xs

rbkwp said: ↑
honestly dont know wether one should be saying congratulations just for the fact there is a conclusion either way, time to say GOOD LUCK UK
There is no conclusion to Brexit. Wont be for years, and I still think the final act will bring the Uk back to being a full member of the EU

 

[dongalong]

There is no conclusion to Brexit. Wont be for years, and I still think the final act will bring the Uk back to being a full member of the EU.

I can't see the UK rejoining what is becoming an even more totalitarian, anti-democratic, unaccountable to the electorate, extremely expensive bureaucracy.
You would have to want to give up on democracy and giving people a choice in their future before that can happen. I get worried when I hear people supporting giving up their personal power to an unelected and remote EU commision.

In other words, we must centralise the EU's power even more and make sure no one else can leave!

 

[dandelion]

I can't see the UK rejoining what is becoming an even more totalitarian, anti-democratic, unaccountable to the electorate, extremely expensive bureaucracy.

Ah, but that is just one pont of view. Another is that the westminster government/parliament is even worse than the EU setup, so better to scrap the westminster lot and keep the EU one.

 

[dongalong]

HAPPY BREXIT DAY!
If you voted remain I understand that you didn't want to see this day happen but here we are, this was the result of several democratic votes, the people have spoken.
I feel confident in the UK's potential to succeed by spending those EU billions locally and opening up to the world. I'm pretty sure that the EU will make sure that European businesses won't suffer from losing one of their biggest markets.
I am quite happy to be alive during this transformative period, I find it quite exciting and I'm optimistic about what can be achieved without an unaccountable, unelected commission having authority over the Brits.

 

[dongalong]

Ah, but that is just one pont of view. Another is that the westminster government/parliament is even worse than the EU setup, so better to scrap the westminster lot and keep the EU one.

The people are watching the current government extra closely after so many years of betrayal, no one trusts Tories anymore but they were voted in to finally deliver Brexit and Boris actually seems enthusiastic about the UK's potential.
Brits now have an accountable government and will be able to remove their power just like in the last election when the remoaner types were all removed for betraying the people that voted for them.
It's a much fairer system than the remote EU bureaucracy.

 

[dandelion]

I feel confident in the UK's potential to succeed by spending those EU billions locally and opening up to the world.

It has already been proved leaving the EU will be a net cost. So its more a question of increasing taxes to make up.

As to opening up to the world, do you mean we buy more from China, the US, and even the EU..and close down whatever industries we have left at the moment? That seems to be what it means !

Brits now have an accountable government

Pull the other one, how is it accountable? The nation is currently about 54% remain and 46% leave. Explain how the government will be bound by the wishes of the UK people?

 

[dongalong]

It has already been proved leaving the EU will be a net cost. So its more a question of increasing taxes to make up.

As to opening up to the world, do you mean we buy more from China, the US, and even the EU..and close down whatever industries we have left at the moment? That seems to be what it means !

Proved by who? Were all variables taken into account?
The ex colonies will be the perfect way to make up EU shortfalls but will there be many of those? That will be a bad idea for everyone in Europe and might accelerate the EU's demise if they try some funny business during negociations.
Trade opportunities for Commonwealth post-Brexit | The Commonwealth

 

[dongalong]

Land of opportunity
9 Business Ideas for a Post-Brexit World - dummies

 

[dongalong]

 

[Jason]

It's a sense of relief. We're out.

 

[Atlantis1987]

Sad day for allot of folks in Britain, sad for the 13 million who didn't bother to vote, the 18 million who weren't allowed to vote (folks living in the UK) If it works out, I'll be glad to say I was wrong, but rare is it that I am wrong about things like this... Shall see what happens with Right Wing Idiots in charge

 

[spaj8987]

Well now that majority white countries across the board have decided they really really hate progress. I wonder what other countries will become the new world powers. China? Africa? Japan?

It most definitely won't be russia. They'll be too busy celebrating having helped taken out two majority white countries in one blow.

So who's next i wonder.

 

[dongalong]

Contrary to the sneering remoaners' insults that all Brexiteers are stupid, many Brits saw the EU just like Sir Roger Scruton describes in this debate.

 

[chrisrobin]

THE UK IS NO LONGER A VASSAL STATE.
THE UK CAN NOW MAKE ITS OWN LAWS AND RETAIN ITS OWN IDENTITY.
THE UK IS NOW IN CHARGE OF ITS OWN DESTINY
THE UK IS NO LONGER UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF THE BRUSSELS POWER HUB TOTALLY OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE EU ELECTORATE - BRUSSELS IS INTENT ON HARMONIZING EVERYTHING EVEN IF THIS MEANS DISSOLVING NATIONAL IDENTITIES.
THE UK DIDN'T HATE THE EU BUT MORE THE FAILURE TO THAT CAME TO THE EU FROM ITS POWER HUNGRY ELITE.
LONG LIVE EUROPE, LONG LIVE THE UK

 

[dongalong]

Well now that majority white countries across the board have decided they really really hate progress. I wonder what other countries will become the new world powers. China? Africa? Japan?

It most definitely won't be russia. They'll be too busy celebrating having helped taken out two majority white countries in one blow.

So who's next i wonder.

Are you aware of how racist your post is?

 

[Jason]

The key point with Brexit is that IT HAS HAPPENED.

Yesterday was the legal point of exit. There is no cancelling Brexit. The discussion has to move on. Presumably both UK and EU now want a sensible trade deal to the benefit of both, but whether or not there is a trade deal, Brexit has happened.

The hope is that negotiators on both sides get real and form a trade deal that is in everyone's interests. On both sides there are factors which make this difficult:

* For UK there is a political (not economic) attraction in not making a deal. Politically it would be presented as the intransigent EU responsible for all the problems which beset the UK, economic and social. It is important not to lose sight of how this political narrative could run.
* For the EU there is a clear group who want the UK punished pour encourager les autres, as we say in English. The UK must be given a punishment beating so that no-one else dares to leave. The people of the EU must take the pain because it will be even more painful for the EU.

I suspect sense will prevail and there will be a broad-brush agreement. However I think there are many on both sides who would like no agreement as the outcome.