Brexit

southeastone

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http://www.cityam.com/269361/going-global-exporting-isnt-hassle-british-smes-fear

From above

"This year, KPMG has been involved with a number of trade missions, and the one constant is the strength of the British brand which opens doors and allows a premium.

There is a real desire from foreign businesses to trade with the UK, despite the uncertainty of how trade will work. They want to build relationships now, rather than wait until Brexit, and the success of the UK startup sector is recognised across the world."
 
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ManchesterTom

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Given that every border with the EU from outside is open like a sieve the UK proposal for Ireland seems to offer more in the way of security than the rest of the EU put together.
And Switzerland...... stringent border checks there....
Not true Buddy, just try to fly into any country from many non Eu countries, you wont even be allowed to board the plane. Try flying from Johnnesburg without a Schengen VISA, which by the way costs a lot to puchase. The Schengen visas are valid for the EXACT period of stay, not one day more or one day earlier. Europe does not LEGALLY allow non Eu citizens in.

Just exactly as Switzerland does not let anyone though the border posts. Why does Switzerland have customs officials?

Also the implication that the UK just allows anyone to walk though customs, total rubbish. Try getting into the UK without the correct VISA / Paperwork, you are arrested at the airport and put into detention cells and then flown out at next opportunity.
 

ManchesterTom

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Here's one for the conspiracy theorists.

The UK has put a lot of money into developing an airport on St Helena in the South Atlantic. The airport is now built, but no-one is flying into it because of wind sheer problems. Basically most have decided it is too dangerous.

However agreement has now been reached with South African airline Airlink to operate a service to St Helena (weekly), continuing once a month to Ascension Island. Presumably this will be just the start. This flight alone is just about enough to keep St Helena viable.

Ascension and St Helena are key stepping-stones to the Falkland Islands. UK investment in this airport may be regarded as investment in the Falkland Islands. The obvious commercial motive is South Atlantic oil.


View attachment 805188
No, Airlink are a complete cockup, they would never manage.
 

dandelion

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Plenty of countries are doing business with the eu,
and all of them have to respect the rules the EU imposes. Thats my point. You cannot escape this if you want to trade with another nation, any nation.

Oh dear, he we go. I looked at the article and he starts off comparing the Uk now to 16th century expeditions to establish 'trade'. The way we conducted trade in those days was to send men with guns and beads to fleece the natives. Now the natives have more guns and better glass factories than we do.
 

southeastone

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Not true Buddy, just try to fly into any country from many non Eu countries, you wont even be allowed to board the plane. Try flying from Johnnesburg without a Schengen VISA, which by the way costs a lot to puchase. The Schengen visas are valid for the EXACT period of stay, not one day more or one day earlier. Europe does not LEGALLY allow non Eu citizens in.

Just exactly as Switzerland does not let anyone though the border posts. Why does Switzerland have customs officials?

Also the implication that the UK just allows anyone to walk though customs, total rubbish. Try getting into the UK without the correct VISA / Paperwork, you are arrested at the airport and put into detention cells and then flown out at next opportunity.

Maybe as he is talking about the north/south ireland border he is more looking at road transport?
 

southeastone

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and all of them have to respect the rules the EU imposes. Thats my point. You cannot escape this if you want to trade with another nation, any nation.

.

So what, as an exporter I have to comply with rules of all sorts of countries, incidentally post brexit they will have to comply with our rules as well.
 

dandelion

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So what, as an exporter I have to comply with rules of all sorts of countries, incidentally post brexit they will have to comply with our rules as well.
So you are saying all this leave stuff about having to leave the EU beause of all the rules it imposes on us is total nonsense. You are happy to accept the rules. And you agree the EU is forced to accept what the Uk wants because we are a member? While we remain a member, that is.

As a member we get on the good side of deals made by a big trading block. As a non member we get what we are given as a minor player.

"There is a real desire from foreign businesses to trade with the UK, despite the uncertainty of how trade will work. They want to build relationships now, rather than wait until Brexit, and the success of the UK startup sector is recognised across the world."
Damn right there is. They scent easy profits coming their way from our weakness.
 

southeastone

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So you are saying all this leave stuff about having to leave the EU beause of all the rules it imposes on us is total nonsense. You are happy to accept the rules. And you agree the EU is forced to accept what the Uk wants because we are a member? While we remain a member, that is.

.

No I am saying that as an exporter I have to go by rules from all countries so it's not a problem to go by eu rules to export to eu countries and the eu countries will have to go by our rules to export to the UK, that's how global trade works, what's the problem
 

dandelion

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No I am saying that as an exporter I have to go by rules from all countries so it's not a problem to go by eu rules to export to eu countries and the eu countries will have to go by our rules to export to the UK, that's how global trade works, what's the problem
I have no idea what the problem is. Yet Brexorcists are arguing we have to leave the EU because we cannot bear to follow their rules. Being members, we have mutually agreed a situation where our rules are the same as their rules, so not problems. Yet Brexorcists have invented problems where none existed. Chasing ghosts of empire.
 
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Leaving the EU is an illusion and always has been if the UK wants to continue to have trade with the EU at all.

Without trade the Uk starves.
What rubbish.

We'll still trade with them - the question is whether it will be tariff free or revert to WTO rates.

Saying we have to be part of the EU to have any trade with them 'at all' is unadulterated bullshit of the kind you accuse Leave of slapping all over a red bus.
 
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Seems Singapore is very keen on access to UK financial markets - to the point of demanding alterations to their free trade deal with the EU if it no longer includes UK access...

Bodes well for the UK. EU? Not so much.
 
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Jason

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Seems Singapore is very keen on access to UK financial markets - to the point of demanding alterations to their free trade deal with the EU if it no longer includes UK access...

Bodes well for the UK. EU? Not so much.

My understanding is that China has set out that it will do business with London (only) for all New Silk Road financing, ie all Eurasia. In effect Singapore is following this lead.
 

chrisrobin

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I have no idea what the problem is. Yet Brexorcists are arguing we have to leave the EU because we cannot bear to follow their rules. Being members, we have mutually agreed a situation where our rules are the same as their rules, so not problems. Yet Brexorcists have invented problems where none existed. Chasing ghosts of empire.
You know its not a question of rules as much as overblown unnecessary red tape which might be applicable for good in Poland but not in the UK - among other reason for wanting to get out at the first opportunity.
A recent report from a well known think tank has said that if the UK left the EU via a hard brexit it would bent to the tune of
135 billion pounds!
 

chrisrobin

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Not true Buddy, just try to fly into any country from many non Eu countries, you wont even be allowed to board the plane. Try flying from Johnnesburg without a Schengen VISA, which by the way costs a lot to puchase. The Schengen visas are valid for the EXACT period of stay, not one day more or one day earlier. Europe does not LEGALLY allow non Eu citizens in.

Just exactly as Switzerland does not let anyone though the border posts. Why does Switzerland have customs officials?

Also the implication that the UK just allows anyone to walk though customs, total rubbish. Try getting into the UK without the correct VISA / Paperwork, you are arrested at the airport and put into detention cells and then flown out at next opportunity.
The reference was for the borders which are open sieves and allow anyone to walk, swim or even ride across - how to Turks and Afghans get into the EU without going through border controls. Plus Merkel opened the borders for anyone to come in unchecked.
Yes airlines, airports and recognised crossing/entry points are more secure, and, while I was referring to no EU citizens it was to those who want to and have arrived in the EU illegally and easily because the EU has never had a coherent policy.
If you think the EU is a totally secure block of countries where illegal entry doesn't happen - think again buddy.
 

dandelion

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Not sure you wrote that big enough! Adjusted it for you!
Thats a report from Minton, isnt it? The guy who believes we go in with gunboats and beat the crap out of the americans and force them to trade with us on terms to our advantage? Now where is the logic wrong in that plan?

You know its not a question of rules as much as overblown unnecessary red tape which might be applicable for good in Poland but not in the UK
Which rules do you think should not apply to the UK? Which rules do you think we will be able to dipense with after leaving? because we will still have to apply EU rules if we wish to trade with them even on WTO terms....

Leave dont seem to undertsand this. Even on WTO terms we will still have to follow EU rules. All that happens if we leave the EU is we no longer get a vote and a veto in making those rules.
 

chrisrobin

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Thats a report from Minton, isnt it? The guy who believes we go in with gunboats and beat the crap out of the americans and force them to trade with us on terms to our advantage? Now where is the logic wrong in that plan?

Which rules do you think should not apply to the UK? Which rules do you think we will be able to dipense with after leaving? because we will still have to apply EU rules if we wish to trade with them even on WTO terms....

Leave dont seem to undertsand this. Even on WTO terms we will still have to follow EU rules. All that happens if we leave the EU is we no longer get a vote and a veto in making those rules.
I do wonder if you can ever be positive about anything other than the things you are positively negative about.
For the majority that bothered to vote leave you cannot believe for one moment (or maybe you can) that they would all vote to leave if they thought as you seem to, that the result would be total doom and gloom.
Like the Guardian, the BBC you can only see destruction and deprivation at the end of the road - ah - woe is you!
Doom - we're all doomed!
 

dandelion

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For the majority that bothered to vote leave you cannot believe for one moment (or maybe you can) that they would all vote to leave if they thought as you seem to, that the result would be total doom and gloom.
And again you make my argument. Leave lied. When these people find out that leaving really is only doom and gloom, they will quickly become remainers. And that is why the government is in such a fix now. because it knows if it proceeds with Brexit, that in 5 or ten years time (if it has happened by then), all thse voters will sudenly disown that they ever wanted to leave and resent any party which was responsible for their worsened condition.

Most people only voted for Brexit because they thought it would make their leves better. If they find the opposite is true they will be really annoyed with the government for doing something so stupid.
 

southeastone

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Which rules do you think should not apply to the UK? Which rules do you think we will be able to dipense with after leaving? because we will still have to apply EU rules if we wish to trade with them even on WTO terms....

.

The point was "what's good for poland not for the UK", well the first one that springs to mind is the large amount of polish workers in the UK many as you know earning very little wages so not paying tax but able to claim child tax credit and child benefit for children back in Poland. If a UK worker went to Poland who does not have such benefits the UK worker would not have that option but the eu does not allow us to discriminate. The even larger amount of romanian workers here are having even more of a ball as the romanian economy has not had a chance to benefit from the UK money going back yet.
 

dandelion

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The point was "what's good for poland not for the UK", well the first one that springs to mind is the large amount of polish workers in the UK many as you know earning very little wages so not paying tax but able to claim child tax credit and child benefit for children back in Poland.
Erm, we the british government chose to let them in as tourists despite them arriving here from poland by the busload when it was blatantly obvious they were coming to work, before ever they joined the EU. We welcomed them. Partly because we need the workers and partly because we wanted to integrate Poland into the west and keep it out of the sphere of influence of Russia. we pushed for them to allowed to join the EU, and then granted them immediate rights to come here instead of delaying this. They are her at trhe invitaion of the Uk government and not otherwise.

As to child benefit, we could change those rules if we wanted. We do not because there are few actual cases and more UK ciizens would be upset by this than foreign nationals. Britain chooses not to get tough and exercise all the rights it has over foreigners here. Our choice. Cameron's choice, and indeed May's choice now.

The even larger amount of romanian workers here are having even more of a ball as the romanian economy has not had a chance to benefit from the UK money going back yet.
The numbers of other immigrants from new members states is tiny compared to those from Poland. Because Poland is bigger than all the rest put together. leave have tried to use these as scare stories when the truth is successive Uk governments have chosne not to exercise the rights they already have because THERE IS NO PROBLEM!