Brexit

[dandelion]

For those of you who missed it, Merkel's possible second in command Schultz is urging that all countries got for a European Superstate by 2025 - and this is supported by the follow-my-leader Macron as well as Merkel plus that old sot Juncker.
Just as well we wont be there having to contribute the lions share to the new European Army, not to mention the added bill for this new (much improved) joining of countries...

You do keep missing the point of being an EU member. As a member, we get to control what happnes. Nothing happenes unless we agree. no superstate, no army, no extra contributions. Whereas if w leave, they do as they please and we cant stop them. Yet we still have to trade with them and obey any rules they care to make about that trade. being an EU member gives every country massive gain in its ability to control the destiny of Europe for its own benefit. Brexiteers dont seem to care how they harm the UK.

 

[Jason]

I am going for a spread with income in the currency of the countries where I want to be. And yes, that does include some sterling. Who would put all their eggs in one basket?

The issue in the UK right now is around managing for the risk of a Corbyn-Momentum government. It's not easy! Most people in the UK have assets tied up in the UK, both home and business. People in the UK tend to have knowledge of their national environment and are better able to make investment decisions. At the most basic level I have some confidence in avoiding UK scams.

I would certainly like a nest egg outside the UK. I've also come to appreciate why previous generations had their gold.

 

[Jason]

A UK poll just out that hasn't given me a heart attack:

CON: 42% (+2)
LAB: 41% (-)
LDEM: 7% (-)

It's YouGov. Now of course we don't believe polls in UK, and there has recently been one with a big Labour lead. However it may be that we are seeing Con and Lab pretty much level. Local council ward by-elections are problematic to interpret, but they do seem to show Con and especially LibDem doing better than the national polls.

And it's mid term. Usually a few months after an election the opposition would expect to be way ahead. In my rational moments I think we are seeing a picture where the fortunes of Conservatives will improve the longer the election is delayed. So next election 2022!

 

[dandelion]

Odd spectacle today. David Davis apologised for saying yesterday that the agreement with the EU had no legal basis. Said what he meant was that there was a much stronger reason why we will respect and implement it, because we have promised to.

Thing is, the EU today agreed with him that it is not legally binding, after he withdrew that claim. The real problem is that as the leader of a negotiating team who had just made an agreement, he turned round the next day and publicly announced he didnt think much of it and might simply ignore what had been agreed. Pretty stupid.

 

[Drifterwood]

Yes fair point, do you invest in China or just EU/Far East?

There is a place I like in China, but I don't need to invest there. If I was twenty years younger I might.

 

[Drifterwood]

The issue in the UK right now is around managing for the risk of a Corbyn-Momentum government. It's not easy! Most people in the UK have assets tied up in the UK, both home and business. People in the UK tend to have knowledge of their national environment and are better able to make investment decisions. At the most basic level I have some confidence in avoiding UK scams.

I would certainly like a nest egg outside the UK. I've also come to appreciate why previous generations had their gold.

This is an issue that only exists because of the moron Tories.

I have more outside the UK now, so frankly, I don't give a shit anymore what your nationalism does here. As I said a long time ago, you can do what you like, but don't expect us to pay for it.

 

[Jason]

This is an issue that only exists because of the moron Tories.

I have more outside the UK now, so frankly, I don't give a shit anymore what your nationalism does here. As I said a long time ago, you can do what you like, but don't expect us to pay for it.

I agree the Conservatives have done some daft things, particularly calling the election earlier this year. We are now where we are and the important questions are around what to do now.

The mass-murderer might claim in court that he did terrible things because of his deprived upbringing. Nonetheless I hold him responsible for what he has done. Momentum/Marxism are set to do terrible things in the UK, because of Tories, the bankers, the capitalists, whatever. I hold Corbyn responsible, not "moron Tories".

We're fast realising that Corbyn can damage our economy without even getting elected. Pension and Investment funds have come up with the idea of Corbyn-proofing investments, which in effect means not investing in the UK. The antidote would of course be a big Conservative poll lead. However we saw earlier in the year how that lead can vanish. We need a massive Conservative poll lead.

 

[Drifterwood]

Wake up. You created Corbyn.

 

[dandelion]

The mass-murderer might claim in court that he did terrible things because of his deprived upbringing.

whereas tory mps went to Eton and had rich parents and trust funds. No excuse for what they have done.

Latest poll shows a rise in support for conservatives. No doubt because they now have a policy of remaining in the eu.

But they still plan to leave the council of ministers, the court, the parliament and the commission. We will still accept all the rules but not get to make them

That is now government policy. How long ago did I post that this would be the result of brexit? The uk will belong to the eu market because it must. But it will lose the power to make those rules or veto ones we don't like. Biggest betrayal since another conservative pm chamberlain decided to leave europe and give us 'peace in our time'. Did not go well.

 

[chrisrobin]

You do keep missing the point of being an EU member. As a member, we get to control what happnes. Nothing happenes unless we agree. no superstate, no army, no extra contributions. Whereas if w leave, they do as they please and we cant stop them. Yet we still have to trade with them and obey any rules they care to make about that trade. being an EU member gives every country massive gain in its ability to control the destiny of Europe for its own benefit. Brexiteers dont seem to care how they harm the UK.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree - again. The point of not being a member is we control our own destiny, within the EU we wouldn't stand a cats chance in hell of controlling anything - just look at the odds, then look at the Brussels administration.
As for the super state and the army you can bet your bottom dollar (or Euro) that Brussels will change the rules so that you take it or leave and the voting will be a majority ruling - and the take it or leave option has already been mentioned by Schultz!
You fail to admit the EU will do what it wants when it wants and how it wants, France will brown nose Germany even more and Luxembourg (tax haven) and Belgium (a country that internally wants division) will go along for the ride, the glory and what they can make out of it. As for trade, well there is the WTO and, the EU like it or not is bound by its international laws.
Like it or not Cameron screwed it all up, gave the EU the chance for payback time over Thatcher, and, because as a nation the majority of voter cast was for leaving the UK will be punished regardless for having had the temerity to invoke Clause 50.
Big Note
May said that no deal no divorce settlement, in the House of Commons on Monday `11 December.
Now a possible cash deficit will do something to make the EU focus their attention on!

 

[Jason]

Wake up. You created Corbyn.

I disagree with your theology. A sociologist might suggest that Hitler was a product of 1930s Germany and Stalin of 1920s Russia and that somehow the German and Russian people created them. Similarly a sociologist might say that Milosevic had an awful childhood, was in a bad place at a bad time, and that somehow the Serbians, the EU, the West, the Russians created him. I don't do this displacement of responsibility. Corbyn is responsible for Corbyn. Every individual who votes for him has to bear the moral guilt for voting for evil.

I see Corbyn's hero in Venezuela has banned opposition parties from standing in the election. Dictatorship is what the UK faces if once the nation votes for Corbyn.

 

[Jason]

Big Note
May said that no deal no divorce settlement, in the House of Commons on Monday `11 December.
Now a possible cash deficit will do something to make the EU focus their attention on!

Yes this is the point. Its also why the chatter is that a deal will now be agreed very rapidly. We're looking at Canada plus - the starting pint is pretty much a copy and paste of the Canada deal with the plus being a lot more on services (there is some provision in the Canada deal, but only limited). The lively discussion is around services.

The idea has been put forward that somehow the EU will move financial services to Paris, Frankfurt or somewhere else. This is not going to happen. The Western markets are dominated by London and New York. There is no quick and easy move. A long-term move would require alignment with these, which means the EU would have to abandon its restrictive practices. The problem is that reality hits politics. No doubt Macron would love to argue that he is making Paris a global financial centre. Macron will have to be persuaded of the error of his ways.

 

[Drifterwood]

The Tories are quite rightly not taking us out of Europe, however they need to dress it up like we are, because otherwise they would be destroyed at the next election or sooner.

I know we've had enough of experts, but you may care to read what the Rand Organisation has to say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42315280

 

[Drifterwood]

I disagree with your theology. A sociologist might suggest that Hitler was a product of 1930s Germany and Stalin of 1920s Russia and that somehow the German and Russian people created them. Similarly a sociologist might say that Milosevic had an awful childhood, was in a bad place at a bad time, and that somehow the Serbians, the EU, the West, the Russians created him. I don't do this displacement of responsibility. Corbyn is responsible for Corbyn. Every individual who votes for him has to bear the moral guilt for voting for evil.

I see Corbyn's hero in Venezuela has banned opposition parties from standing in the election. Dictatorship is what the UK faces if once the nation votes for Corbyn.

Apologies. You created the opportunity for Corbyn. The irony is that David Cameron gave you a real majority against most expectations. You then forced his resignation with Brexit and now you have a leader with the personal touch of the Grim Reaper. For all your feigned positivity, the Brexit Tories are openly seething at where she is seen to be taking project Little England.

 

[chrisrobin]

The Tories are quite rightly not taking us out of Europe, however they need to dress it up like we are, because otherwise they would be destroyed at the next election or sooner.

I know we've had enough of experts, but you may care to read what the Rand Organisation has to say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42315280

I hadn't relised you were a freidn of Dandelions! And the Rand Orgainsation is no friend of the current government. in any case do we want an organisation from another country tell us what to do when their own country is about to go to the dogs?

 

[Jason]

Apologies. You created the opportunity for Corbyn. The irony is that David Cameron gave you a real majority against most expectations. You then forced his resignation with Brexit and now you have a leader with the personal touch of the Grim Reaper. For all your feigned positivity, the Brexit Tories are openly seething at where she is seen to be taking project Little England.

I'm not sure who you mean by "you".

I was (and remain) in favour of having the Brexit referendum, but the referendum should have been conducted in a manner similar to the Scottish independence referendum. There should have been access to the civil service for the Leave team to prepare a policy. Issues like the date of submission of Article 50 and who submits it should have been sorted out in the legislation that called the referendum. I think Cameron bodged this. He called a referendum not to find out what people thought but to close down an argument. That was idiotic!

I've a lot of sympathy with May who was confronted by a mess. I understand why she called a General Election. A big majority would have led to a "strong and stable" Conservative government able to get a good deal in the negotiations and make the necessary compromises at home. Nonetheless I think she got two points wrong:
1) The Conservative Party were not ready to fight an election. The local teams were exhausted before it even started, and Central Office couldn't even get its mail shots out on time.
2) There is a fundamental flaw in the psychology of asking people for more power. Saying "no" is almost a reflex.
In short I think the decision to call the election was wrong. I think May misjudged both the preparedness of the Conservative Party and the ability of voters.

Yes Conservatives made mistakes. So does every possible government. That mistakes have been made does not justify a Corbyn-led Labour Party that is anti-Semitic, pro-terrorist, Marxist, bullying, tolerant of sex offenders and paedophiles.

The answer is resilience. Two polls in the last couple of days saw Con ahead; one saw Labour ahead. There's a clear lead for May as preferred leader. I think she just has to hang in there. We do have progress with Brexit negotiations. The goal has to be that in 2022 Labour gains not a single parliamentary seat, that it goes the way of the National Front. We all have to work for the total destruction of an evil political party.

 

[southeastone]

The issue in the UK right now is around managing for the risk of a Corbyn-Momentum government. It's not easy! Most people in the UK have assets tied up in the UK, both home and business. People in the UK tend to have knowledge of their national environment and are better able to make investment decisions. At the most basic level I have some confidence in avoiding UK scams.

I would certainly like a nest egg outside the UK. I've also come to appreciate why previous generations had their gold.

The UK banks are saying more money is leaving for fear of Labour than for Brexit, worrying times for the Uk economy

 

[dandelion]

The UK banks are saying more money is leaving for fear of Labour than for Brexit, worrying times for the Uk economy

it's not our money. They took it from us and have no intention of losing it when brexit happens. Labour would grab some of it back for us, so of course they are running while the tories still let them fleece us. They fear the tories will introduce a failed brexit and then crash and burn.

It looks for all the world as if barnier and may have cut a deal. The uk stays in the eu but leaves it's controlling councils.

southeastone, as members we can veto every change to the structure of the eu. They cannot do it without our consent. Nothing it has done since we joined has been without our consent. You might not like the choices British government's made but we decided what we wanted the eu to be.

We cannot walk away from trading with the eu. We have now promised to maintain a relationship for the whole uk at least as integrated as that existing now between n and s Ireland
This is far beyond the Canada deal, so no way will we be taking that. You can call it Canada +++ as Davis did, but what it amounts to is eu market membership as now. But no longer having any control of changes to that market.

I really don't understand you so called Brexiteers, because you must understand by now all you are doing is destroying the power wealth and position of the uk. Putin friends.

 

[southeastone]

You misunderstand the direction of the EU, Macron, Shulz and co want and will get "more Europe", countries who don't agree will be sidestepped, we leave now or march to the beat of their drum. The EU knows the model is broken and can only survive albeit prolonging the end by drastically changing, we would not be able to hold it back from inside, to think so is naive.

 

[Jason]

The UK banks are saying more money is leaving for fear of Labour than for Brexit, worrying times for the Uk economy

Yes.

The most basic system is to change sterling for a wadge of US dollars and stash it under the bed. A variant is gold under the bed. I suppose the Bitcoin bubble shows people thinking in this way.

UK nationals can of course open an account in Swiss Francs, buy shares in US companies, and buy property in France. All these options are straightforward, but they are still assets held by UK nationals which must be declared in the UK. The problem comes with confiscation of assets by a Corbyn government. There's already been talk of confiscation of shares in the railways and utilities in order to nationalise them without cost, and confiscation of second homes (put forward after Grenfell), so I think confiscation has to be seen as the real threat.

What we are seeing is UK nationals hiding their money abroad. This is of course illegal (in the UK) but it is happening.