British Accents

[B_big dirigible]

Do you subconciously size people up by the accent they have? Is there some kind of unspoken Posh scale that these accents fall into?

Subconsciously, hell - it's a favorite sport. The major giveaways are vowel shifts.

There have been a number of books on the subject of class and accent correlations in GB. I vaguely remember reading one not too long ago with at least a chapter on the topic; Class, I think. Probably by Jilly Cooper. Common in US public libraries.

And then there was Shaw, who pointed out that "[SIZE=-1]the English have no respect for their language, and will not teach their children to speak it." Typical Irish git. Nevertheless, he managed to work the theme into a play. [/SIZE]

 

[bearman66]

Tina Turner has adapted a "pseudo-English" accent as well, which doesn't fall into any category, and is mainly noteable for her enunciation, and she is being imitated by Madonna, to a degree-wanting to be seen as a sophiscated international star rather than an expatriate American. Jerry Hall, one of Mick Jagger's exes, seems to have a much more cotrived accent than Madonna.

 

[Kenyth]

Sorry didn't mean it in a derogatory way. The term 'Paki' is used rather casually down under within the Pakistani and the general population....

 

[ManlyBanisters]

And then there was Shaw, who pointed out that "[SIZE=-1]the English have no respect for their language, and will not teach their children to speak it." Typical Irish git. Nevertheless, he managed to work the theme into a play. [/SIZE]

I see Shaw went way over your head then, big - though I'm surprised that satire goes over you head as you often attempt to employ it.

Shaw's comments on the English language are strongly coloured by that fact that the English murdered our language with their oppression over the centuries - it is true that the Irish often attack and ridicule the English in relation to their language - it is small recompense for our loss and the fact that we were forced to adopt their language.

But to write Shaw off as a 'git' for this is stooping to new depths of inanity for you. The fact you choose to also make it a Xenophobic comment by bringing his nationality in to brings you down further still.

Sorry didn't mean it in a derogatory way. The term 'Paki' is used rather casually down under within the Pakistani and the general population....

I thought that was probably the case - thanks for clearing it up.

 

[dong20]

There have been a number of books on the subject of class and accent correlations in GB. I vaguely remember reading one not too long ago with at least a chapter on the topic; Class, I think. Probably by Jilly Cooper. Common in US public libraries[SIZE=-1]. [/SIZE]

Yes, it was by JC and first published in 1979.

It's 'strictly' non fiction and is in fact an intentionally satirical, witty and irreverent exposé of 'Middle England' and the English Class system; if it's considered in any real sense a form of reference guide by Americans on the subject that explains a lot. :biggrin1:

 

[D_golden parachute]

very obviously american!

there are a few words where she's trying far too hard to sound english...and failing.

i have the accent she's trying to fake.
the old style "bbc english".
people accuse me of being posh

Same here :biggrin1:

I would hate to have a geordie accents, mine is pretty posh

 

[Yorkie]

Naff is originally from a gay code language (polari) and originally meant Not Available For Fucking - but now means a bit crap, shabby.

Good link MB! It looks like they haven't heard of your explanation of the origin of "naff".
naph = bad (quite possibly the origin of the current British English slang term naff)
I sometimes hear repeats of 'Round The Horne' on BBC7,it's surprising what they got away with considering homosexuality was illegal until 1967.BBC bosses probably didn't have a clue what they were talking about. :biggrin1:
I remember "Naff off!" used to be one of Princess Anne's favourite phrases.

 

[12incher]

I lived in London for a couple of years and being submerged in the language and culture I noticed that some of my vowels drifted on certain words - and I only really noticed it when my sister pointed it out on the phone or when I came back to the states. I think in my case it was more a case of laziness in rounding out an Ah or something. At work one day everyone in our section could "talk posh" for me and do their impressions of the "American accent" some sounded southern or a few maybe midwestern but most of them sounded quite cartoony.

I was told that in school they teach kids to speak RP - Received Pronounciation which is also known as the Queen's English. That's what my coworkers were using to "talk posh". The BBC ran a special on the Queen after Diana's death (Trying to rebuild her public image or something) and one of the segments of the programme was on her accent. They showed clips of the Queen's speaches from the begining of her reign and then more recent slips of speaches to illustrate how much her accent has drifted into "Estuary English" which is basically "the London accent" now.

I haven't heard Madonna speak recently but a year or so ago I saw a TV interview and it sounded like the vowel drifting was happening to her more than just doing a poor imitation accent. Since her husband and nannies have probably helped her kids learn to speak I assume they speak more "British" than American around her home, add in TV and friends and she's constantly exposed to a much wider spectrum of phonetic possibilities.

Most Americans can't tell anything about accents that's why the British housekeeper, Daphnie on the US TV show, Frasier spoke like a Brummie most of the time but her brother had a cockney accent which is utterly imposible unless they were raised apart. To be a proper cockney, one must live within earshot of the bells of St. Paul's Cathedral.

 

[Not_Punny]

milf..

Im a bit like that, I was born in England, brought up in Canada, NZ, Europe, Asia, pretty much lived all over the world, my accent is very adaptive to the person I talk to, naturally I just imitate the other person, I don't know what I end up doing that, but sometimes it can be rude, if you are talking to a Non-english native and they have a very strong accent, and they think you are making fun of them or something....

LOL, I know exactly what you're talking about. Fortunately, I was only accused of being rude (or stupid) just a handful of times. Hope it never got you in trouble! For me, the worst is when someone (usually from Europe or Asia) mispronounces an English word, and then.... OMG... I say the same word the same way. Duhhhhh!

 

[dong20]

Same here :biggrin1:

I would hate to have a geordie accents, mine is pretty posh

I quite like the Geordie accent...used to be considered on a par with Brummies but then some years back it became 'cool'. I don't recall why, possibly Auf Wiedersehen Pet.

 

[dolfette]

Same here :biggrin1:

I would hate to have a geordie accents, mine is pretty posh

i'm waiting for the geordies to come kick your arse now :tongue:

 

[SpoiledPrincess]

I didn't rate Renee Zellweger's accent, at times it was passable but then it would fall into some caricature of what English should sound like. Gwyneth Paltrow can pull off a good Brit accent in my opinion, Wesley in Buffy was quite good too but Spike was more a comedy British accent. And Madonna's just a daft tart.
There are many British accents I like cockney, geordie, (received pronunciation being my favourite and also the one my ex had) but I must admit to disliking a few because of their nasal quality.

 

[earllogjam]

Why do you suppose that in such a small island country there still are such variations in accents? I would have thought with the advent of mass media, nationalized education and democratization, Britan would have one accent dominate over the rest as it is here in America where the Midland dialect is the standard.

 

[SpoiledPrincess]

I think precisely because it is such a small country there hasn't been as much incentive to uproot, business areas tend to be localised so it's easy to find a similar job, your family stayed in one place so that was a reason to stay there too. Probably loads of reasons I can't think of too.

 

[D_golden parachute]

i'm waiting for the geordies to come kick your arse now :tongue:

Well I'm from Newcastle

I just sound nothing like a person from Newcastle :biggrin1:

it is a bad accent though, instantly makes a person sound less intelligent

 

[ManlyBanisters]

big d reading Jilly Cooper - How LOVELY!!

Class by Jilly Cooper

http://64.71.185.155/randomho/audio/Wicked.ram

 

[dolfette]

Why do you suppose that in such a small island country there still are such variations in accents? I would have thought with the advent of mass media, nationalized education and democratization, Britan would have one accent dominate over the rest as it is here in America where the Midland dialect is the standard.

because it's an older nation.

accents evolve. in times when ordinary people didn't travel, they evolved away from each other.

america has only existed since people travelled.

 

[dong20]

Why do you suppose that in such a small island country there still are such variations in accents? I would have thought with the advent of mass media, nationalized education and democratization, Britan would have one accent dominate over the rest as it is here in America where the Midland dialect is the standard.

30 years of mass media can't easily overturn over a millennium of linguistic evolution although what we would would term 'Modern English' dates from the early to mid 16th century. I think regional dialects are a great thing.

There are many theories about differing lingustic diversification in the UK and America, some are a bit fanciful I suppose, some less so, but all interesting enough. Less economic migration in the UK, although this was very variable. A factor for the US is its relative youth and extensive immigration.

 

[bobabooey69]

I am multilingual, and I tend to almost absorb accents by osmosis. It's totally subconcious and I guess I do it to immerse myself more. It's odd, but I understand why she talks that way.

 

[dong20]

I am multilingual, and I tend to almost absorb accents by osmosis. It's totally subconcious and I guess I do it to immerse myself more. It's odd, but I understand why she talks that way.

I do the same, but she sounds contrived, almost forced. I hope I don't sound like that....