Bug Chasers

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by MII, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. MII

    MII Member

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    Recently, I came across a blog -- edited by a man who was self confirmed HIV positive, the point of the blog was to talk about his own life and sexual experiences. What struck me, is that this man preferred condomless sex and just about every post I read was about his sex without condoms. Some with other HIV positive people and some who are not that he joked he did not tell.

    In another post he justified this by his low viral load, but others mentioned that he actively sought to help HIV negative people who wanted to become HIV positive. He called them "bug chasers." Reading his blog made me sick to my stomach, not because of his status but because of his (seemingly) reckless attitude toward this issue.

    I believe the address is RawTop.com... thoughts? or am I the only one that feels this way about the guy?
     
  2. D_Wilburforce Throttlebottom

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    I know I identify myself as 1% gay (to keep my options open) but I can not relate to anal intercourse in any way so I am not sure if there is such a lure for some people that they would hook up with anyone they can find to do it. But it seems that even if you engage in that behavior you should assume that the person either has an STD, doesn't know it or is lying about it.

    This person is sick in the head, no doubt about that. There are all kind of crazies out there that do things to harm others. This guy uses sex and his viral infection to do it. As a pre med student I work at local health clinic and we routinely post to sites like Craigslist to remind people of the dangers and to get checked. You would not believe the number of people who flag us, flame us or call and complain because we should not be posting in the M4M section (I guess being reminded of the dangers ruins it for them?). The other things that I take note of when posting is the number of guys who want to "bareback" as its called and want to do it right now, and the number of repeat posts. This leads me to believe that there is a small part of the population that hooks up like this frequently enough that if you casually have an encounter with one of these people your risks are much higher than the average.

    As for those that want to become infected, they must be equally as mentally unstable. I wonder if its out of depression or the need for attention or sympathy that they do it? I have heard of some Activists that are so enraged over their perceptions that the Government is not doing enough to combat AIDS that they want to see as many people infected as possible. Their idea of a suicide bomber I guess.

    Unprotected sex, especially anal intercourse is the primary reason for HIV and other STD's. There is always a mix of blood, bacteria and fecal matter, even if only at a microscopic level. Condoms create a barrier and should always be used even if just for basic hygiene. But condoms can tear or stretch to the point of failure (become porous enough to allow a pathogen to pass through it).

    It seems a terrible life he is living.
     
  3. helgaleena

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    this subject has come up in the Etc. section before. It's horrible that some people are offering the 'gift of death' in this way. Spouses infected by their husbands in Africa spread AIDS the fastest of any other group, and only a few anti-homosexual propagandists in the USA still claim that the chief source of HIV spread is from gay sex.

    Still, in pornography one rarely sees a condom, for MM or MF either. All I can do as a counselor is speak up every time the subject crosses my PC screen-- as now.

    Choose protection, and life, no matter what sort of sex you engage in.
     
  4. Bbucko

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    About six year ago I wrote a short essay on the subject here. My thoughts haven't really evolved much since then.
     
  5. Gedackt8

    Gedackt8 New Member

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    I don't want to defend either Gift Givers or Bug Chasers here, but I do feel the need to point out that Raw Top is NEGATIVE. Matter of fact, one of his most recent posts talks of his amazement at still being negative despite all the things he does.
     
  6. borntobeking

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    It still amazes me that in this day and age people knowingly engage in unprotected casual sex. It does not matter if it is hetero or homo, protection should not be optional.
     
  7. erratic

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    Some people are just fucked up, MII. And while I'm not all gung-ho about criminalizing HIV, I hope the cops find his blog. Admitting to purposely not telling a partner about your HIV status should send your ass to jail.
     
  8. B_Bjen2848

    B_Bjen2848 New Member

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    anyone who is going out trying to get an STD or trying to give others an STD are disgusting
     
  9. BigD_2

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    Yeah "bug chasers" do seem crazy.

    I was talking with a self-identified one once upon a time and trying to understand what could possibly motivate the behavior. He matter-of-factly told me "Well, I'm probably going to get it eventually anyway, so I might as well get it out of the way."

    I said, What?

    And he said, "well, I like sex without condoms, and even if I specify that I only want sex with negative guys, some will lie, or will not really know their status. So I'll be exposed eventually, especially since I'm a bottom, so I might as well just get it out of the way and not have to worry about it."

    I didn't know quite what the heck to say to that, other than to feel sorry for the guy who has such low self-esteem and to encourage him to use condoms...but he was adamant that he "didn't like them" and it was obvious his mind was made up.

    Slightly off the bug chaser topic, but I would like to gently challenge the notion that "Admitting to purposely not telling a partner about your HIV status should send your ass to jail."

    It takes two to tango, as it were - any partner should have enough self-esteem to either ask the other partner about their status or to assume the other person is infected and therefore use protection. But if an HIV positive person meets someone else for sex, is it the HIV positive person's responsibility to immediately say to the potential partner "I'm HIV positive, just so you know"? Or, alternatively, must the HIV+ person merely insist on condoms for everything (including oral sex) without being forced to say anything?

    Or is it maybe at least a little bit incumbent on the HIV+ person's sex partner to ask about status or about condom use?

    It just doesn't seem right to expect 100% of the responsibility to have the HIV discussion to rest with the positive person. If neither partner asks, and condomless sex ensues, why should the positive guy's ass automatically land in jail if the partner ends up infected? Isn't the partner just as "culpable" for behaving in a reckless manner?

    Bottom line to me is, everyone needs to be educated about the risks of different types of behavior and make their own decisions about what they are and are not willing to do. Everyone (HIV+ or HIV-) also needs to decide *before* the sexual encounter how they are going to handle this. Will you ask the other person, expecting an honest answer? Or will you just play safe (or unsafe) and not bother asking?

    My standard take is, I just play safe (with condoms) - that way you don't have to worry about HIV or other STDs, and you don't really have to have a discussion, or wonder if the other person is telling the truth or not. But there I'm talking anal only...honestly, how many people do you know who wear condoms during oral sex?

    Bug chasers are crazy, though.
     
  10. jp

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    I think this is criminal. If someone knows they are positive and chooses to have unprotected sex with and unwitting partner, then they are a sociopath. Yes, the bottom should make better judgments, but the fact that someone would withhold their known status increases their responsibility in the situation.

    What happened to self preservation?
     
  11. GayFrog

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    Many jurisdictions in the United States and Canada have charged HIV positive men for having unprotected sex and not disclosing the fact that they were positive to their partners.

    Aggravated assault charges have been laid in such cases in Texas, Missouri, Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia.

    In Toronto Ontario charges of attempted murder were laid against a man that infected several women.
     
  12. Countryguy63

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    All the above (and harsher) punishments are completely justified
     
  13. BigD_2

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    I know that many jurisdictions have the punishments, and that charges have been brought in many jurisdictions, and that many feel that this is entirely appropriate and correct.

    I just have to again say respectfully and gently, I don't agree with this.

    Just to be clear: I do believe that HIV+ guys should take all precautions not to infect anyone by disclosing their status, using condoms, etc. I also believe that sex partners, even casual "one off" sex partners, should have the discussion about whether each is HIV+ or HIV- (or don't know), so that each can gauge the relative risks of the activities they engage in. But let's be serious, just because I think people should do that doesn't mean people, and I'm including myself, always do.

    How in the world do we expect to move past the stigma that is unnecessarily associated with HIV if we criminalize non-disclosure of status and place the entire responsibility for the way the sexual activity happens on only one of the partners? Do we expect HIV+ guys to only have sex with other HIV+ guys? Or do we expect HIV+ guys to not have sex at all, to suddenly become celibate and jerk off at home alone? Do we think that HIV+ guys who became infected through unprotected sex are suddenly and immediately going to in all cases change their outlook on sex and start using condoms when they didn't before? In short, does all the responsibility for HIV prevention rest with those who are HIV+?

    Do we expect HIV- guys to *never* have to ask about status but rather *expect* to be told all the time? This is absurd, it is the responsibility *of each party* is to either play safe or understand the consequences of not playing safe. If there is no discussion and the HIV+ guy doesn't disclose and the HIV- guy doesn't disclose, then maybe the HIV+ guy is (unreasonably) assuming the partner is + and the HIV- guy is (unreasonably) assuming the partner is - . Why then does that mean the HIV+ guy should go to jail after each sexual partner made the same, but converse, unreasonable assumption?

    The only way to minimize HIV infection, in my opinion, is through education and serious, open discussion about HIV prevention and HIV risk. When saying nothing becomes a criminal offense we are not, in my opinion, talking seriously and openly about HIV issues but rather just looking to lay blame. But blaming the HIV+ people hasn't worked so far, and probably doesn't make HIV+ people feel that great either by the way.

    Now - if we are talking about a person who is actively lying about their positive status, or actively glorifying their actions in going out to try to infect people, then yes we are getting towards a sociopath type who should be dealt with by the legal system. (But - what about a person who actively lies about their status by saying they are negative, but they really haven't been tested lately? If *they* infect someone are *they* supposed to be criminally liable? I just don't see this as a tenable, or helpful, position.)
     
  14. erratic

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    Speaking as someone who has wrestled with this issue professionally and academically for at least ten years now, this is how I see it (generally speaking):

    If Donny knows Charlie is positive, but they fuck anyway, it's Donny's fault that he contracted HIV. If Donny didn't know Charlie's positive and they fuck, it's Charlie's fault. Stigma is horrendous. It's probably one of the worst things about living with HIV. Dying, however, is worse than stigma. Not asking your partner about his/her HIV status is stupid, and it means you deserve to feel like an idiot if you contract HIV. However, you have the right to expect that someone with a deadly virus will attempt to inform you that they have a deadly virus - no matter how stupid you're behaving.

    I believe this issue is so controversial because there's no good answer. There's a right answer, but it has terrible ramifications for people who are already suffering. I hate that. But it's still the right answer. Positive people are responsible for telling their potential partners they're positive.

    Criminalizing it is different, of course. But as I said above, in cases like the one the OP presents, where the prosecution could offer solid evidence (evidence that is not hearsay, or of the he-said-she-said variety) that the accused willfully and knowingly exposed someone to HIV without informing them, I believe it should be considered a criminal act.
     
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