Burning Koran

[Bbucko]

Like it or not, the first amendment allows everyone to be as big an asshole verbally as s/he likes; I've published many things that would make me liable to prosecution in many places.

I had honestly forgotten who Terry Jones was, and was under the impression that his publicity stunt had been canceled until I saw this thread; a quick Wikipedia search reminded me:

Terry Jones (born in 1951 or 1952[8]) has been the senior pastor of Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville since 2001.[9] In 2010 Jones published Islam is of the Devil, a polemic denouncing Islam as a violent faith.[9][10]
He attended Cape Girardeau Central High School in Missouri where he graduated in 1969.[11] After being a hotel manager, Jones then worked as a missionary in Germany for over 30 years.[12] He founded and led the Christliche Gemeinde Köln (CGK), a church in Cologne, Germany, from 1981 to 2008[13][14] which was initially a branch of the Maranatha Campus Ministries and a sister church to Dove World.
A leader of the Cologne church said “He (Jones) didn't project the biblical values and Christianity, but always made himself the center of everything."[15] German press agency Deutsche Presse-Agentur reported that church members said Jones ran the Cologne church like a sect leader and used psychological pressure on members, “subordinating all activities to his will.”[16]
For publicly using an honorary degree from the unaccredited California Graduate School of Theology,[17] in 2002 he was fined by Cologne courts for illegally using the title “doctor”.[18] In 2008, he was ejected by the congregation in Cologne for being a Christian fundamentalist,[19] and due to untenable theological statements and craving for recognition, according to the German Evangelical Alliance,[20][21] amid allegations of financial impropriety and creating "a climate of fear and terror".[17][22] Following Jones' departure, the CGK closed,[13] then reopened under new, independent, leadership.
Jones believes Islam promotes violence and that Muslims want to impose sharia law in the United States.[9] He became widely known after announcing plans to burn copies of the Qur'an[23] and Talmud.[24][25]
Following an invitation from the English Defence League Jones is considering attending a rally in Luton in the U.K. in February 2011 to share his views on Islamic extremism. This news caused a reaction from the anti-fascist group Hope not Hate which has launched a petition to the Home Secretary to ban Jones from entering the country.[26] In January 2011 it was announced by the Home Secretary that Jones would be refused entry to the UK 'for the public good'.[27]

 

[MarkLondon]

<snip> As long as he's taking a torch to books and not to Mosques or other religious buildings, we should ignore the twit for the false prophet he really is.

My understanding is that most Muslims would disagree with you. As the directly revealed (via the Archangel Gabriel) Word of God to the last Holy Prophet and foundation of the entire religion of Islam, burning or any befouling of the book is far worse than damage to a mere building or person.

Even old and worn copies of the Koran are never destroyed but are carefully stored away in Islamic countries.

Has he gone ahead and done what he threatened last year? If so, Rev. Jones can probably expect a fatwah any moment now.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

My understanding is that most Muslims would disagree with you.

Regardless of religious affiliation, the burning of the Bible, The Koran or any "holy book" is protected as a form of free speech in the United States under the First Amendment. I may not like it, but I do begrudgingly accept it. That has more relevance to me than any religious doctrine or belief.

As the directly revealed (via the Archangel Gabriel) Word of God to the last Holy Prophet and foundation of the entire religion of Islam, burning or any befouling of the book is far worse than damage to a mere building or person.

Not to be too dismissive here, but considering that as a gay man I'm not inherently welcome into any religion I could careless which ones would find the burning of a holy book more insulting. Regardless of how it's expressed, the zealots of any religion would want me or my lifestyle extinguished from the Earth. But I digress, of course.

I personally think that it's stupid to burn a "holy book" to express one's disdain towards a different religion. It's a rather extreme way to say that you don't approve of another person's religious beliefs, exercised by desperate people who lack the ability to let others live as they choose to. At the end of the day, our country was built on the idea of religious freedom. Nobody have to agree with everything one religion says on certain subjects. But if one's own religious bigotries impede them so much that they would go to such extremes to express it, then perhaps the problem really isn't the symbolism attached to a book?

 

[ryan25yo]

Terry Jones is NOT a priest! He's a "pastor" of a "church" of about 12 people!

 

[Industrialsize]

Regardless of religious affiliation, the burning of the Bible, The Koran or any "holy book" is protected as a form of free speech in the United States under the First Amendment. I may not like it, but I do begrudgingly accept it. That has more relevance to me than any religious doctrine or belief.



Not to be too dismissive here, but considering that as a gay man I'm not inherently welcome into any religion I could careless which ones would find the burning of a holy book more insulting. Regardless of how it's expressed, the zealots of any religion would want me or my lifestyle extinguished from the Earth. But I digress, of course.

I personally think that it's stupid to burn a "holy book" to express one's disdain towards a different religion. It's a rather extreme way to say that you don't approve of another person's religious beliefs, exercised by desperate people who lack the ability to let others live as they choose to. At the end of the day, our country was built on the idea of religious freedom. Nobody have to agree with everything one religion says on certain subjects. But if one's own religious bigotries impede them so much that they would go to such extremes to express it, then perhaps the problem really isn't the symbolism attached to a book?

OT..You'd be very welcome into a Buddhist Sangha(congregation). It is the only religion that makes any sense to me, you can be an atheist, and they are lgbt friendly. It's the religion I study and try to practice.....

 

[B_crackoff]

Priest Terry Jones was burned the Koran (muslim`s holly Book).
What is your opinion about this,Is it OK.Is it inciting hatred.
Is now Ok if Muslims in Mosques burn The Bible.
My opinion is that this is only extending war with Arabs country`s.

Muslims have done & do burn the bible - look it up. So have the Jewish BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Israel hit by Bible burning row

Try going to Saudi, or the Maldives with a crucifix on, & see what happens to you!

I think if people get outraged by burning reprintable things, they might as well throw the constitution on the pyre as well.

 

[maxcok]

Not to be too dismissive here, but considering that as a gay man I'm not inherently welcome into any religion I could careless which ones would find the burning of a holy book more insulting.

Not true:

Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Trans-Friendly Churches

Welcoming Gay Friendly Denominations

 

[Hoss]

Like it or not, the first amendment allows everyone to be as big an asshole verbally as s/he likes; I've published many things that would make me liable to prosecution in many places.

I had honestly forgotten who Terry Jones was, and was under the impression that his publicity stunt had been canceled until I saw this thread; a quick Wikipedia search reminded me:

He attended Cape Girardeau Central High School in Missouri where he graduated in 1969.[11]

That was frightening!
Bells went off and sure enough it seems that Jones was a classmate of Rush Limbaugh, they both were graduates in the class of 1969 at Cape Central High in Cape Girardeau. Makes me wonder what was beng served in the school cafeteria.

 

[554279]

The court's decision had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with Speech.

Then the court be damned as well as its ruling. The man is still a fucking idiot regardless of how you split hairs.

My belief (IMHO) was the decision was influenced by the religious aspects as well as freedom of speech. Just my opinion.

 

[554279]

Terry Jones is NOT a priest! He's a "pastor" of a "church" of about 12 people!

Freaking crackpot by any other name. Still a dickhead.

 

[D_Wilburforce Throttlebottom]

Its funny. Americans often do not get how powerful speech and symbolism is to most of the people in the middle east where words and gestures have meaning. I spent some time there and as an agnostic (Im truly a infidel lol) I feel nothing when I see nonsense like this preacher dude burning the Koran. But to people in the middle east it has a huge meaning. Burning a bible or the flag only would bother or irritate people in the US. But over there it would be like if you walked into their home and slapped their elderly mother around, kicked their children and then set fire to their house. I'm not defending them, I'm just saying that words and actions especially the later, have real meaning. Its not some academic exercise to them.

In away you have to admire that. They believe in honor and defending it.

 

[FRE]

My understanding is that most Muslims would disagree with you. As the directly revealed (via the Archangel Gabriel) Word of God to the last Holy Prophet and foundation of the entire religion of Islam, burning or any befouling of the book is far worse than damage to a mere building or person.

Even old and worn copies of the Koran are never destroyed but are carefully stored away in Islamic countries.

Has he gone ahead and done what he threatened last year? If so, Rev. Jones can probably expect a fatwah any moment now.

Actually, it goes farther than that.

Even direct quotations from the Koran are considered holy by Muslims and have to be treated as such, just as if they were the Koran itself. That would apply to quotations in a magazine, newspaper, letter, etc. I'm sure that most of would see that as going much too far, but that's how Muslims see it.

Also, anytime the name of their prophet is mentioned, they say, "peace be upon him," or sometimes, "PBUH." I guess they wouldn't be too upset if we non-Muslims didn't say that, but to be culturly sensitive, it's a good thing to say it in the presence of Muslims. I refer to Mohammed as Mr. Mustafa on the ground that I don't know him well enough to be on first name terms.

 

[Drifterwood]

Well, I hope he is happy now with the blood of innocent people on his hands. I don't condone the violence in any way, actually in reinforces the mistaken path of some believers IMO, but Jones really is a twat of monumental proportions.

 

[FRE]

Well, I hope he is happy now with the blood of innocent people on his hands. I don't condone the violence in any way, actually in reinforces the mistaken path of some believers IMO, but Jones really is a twat of monumental proportions.

I agree; there is no point in doing something which accomplishes nothing useful and yet irritates others. However, the Muslims who engage in violence over proposed Koran burning are far worse. Considering that they see it as blasphemy, surely it would be more reasonable to leave it up to God to do something about it, if he chooses to do so.

 

[Drifterwood]

Considering that they see it as blasphemy, surely it would be more reasonable to leave it up to God to do something about it, if he chooses to do so.

Different culture and cultural history, Fre.

Do you want a god of forgiveness to forgive him, or one to kick his sorry ass?

 

[123scotty]

what allot of hoo haa about burning a COPY of a book. probably printed in china by someone on minimum wage. it's a COPY there is thousands more. enough to go around. if one man wants to get attention by burning one is it that important ?
or is it the people giving him the attention. nothing to see here move along would have been the best response

 

[hifzija]

I agree with you "123scotty".But on the other side,there is an anger caused by burning Koran.Most of us have friends and family members serving in Arab country&#729;s.As i heard individuals are irritated by burning. Some are afraid of retaliation.
For us this is maybe only a book,for some others it is more then a book. So why not to respect sacred things,whatever they are.

 

[helgaleena]

So he actually burnt one eh? He was threatening to do so to the media for ever so long before he lit a match too.

H, in the USA some people feel this way about the national flag. It isn't supposed to touch the ground and when it's worn out it is not to be treated as garbage or re-used for its cloth. IMO it's a sort of idolatry. But idolatry has a power of its own, for good or bad, and one can direct this power at any object, including a book.

When I was in art school I experimented with the creation of ritual and ritual items. But I decided not to become a magician. Far too many 'priests' are actually doing magic with symbols like this, though they might deny it.

 

[itsthepopei]

Honestly as an atheist i think its important to force the Islamic world to start the process of modernization that has allowed the western world to, for the most part, move on from 13th century world view. I do however consider Terry Jones's motivations deplorable and find the news reporting on his actions to be disgusting (from a journalistic point of view) and partially responsible for the reaction in the Islamic world, However you cannot devoice the pathetic nature of the reaction. The act of burning books in protest should not be used as rational for killing someone and, the same gos for publishing a satirical comic, or using religious imagery on TV. I don't blame the ignorant sheep who did the killing but,the often well educated assholes who goaded them on. If the UN pushed for global education standards in geography and history allot of the claims of radicals would be laughed out of relevance.

 

[Industrialsize]

Honestly as an atheist i think its important to force the Islamic world to start the process of modernization that has allowed the western world to, for the most part, move on from 13th century world view. I do however consider Terry Jones's motivations deplorable and find the news reporting on his actions to be disgusting (from a journalistic point of view) and partially responsible for the reaction in the Islamic world, However you cannot devoice the pathetic nature of the reaction. The act of burning books in protest should not be used as rational for killing someone and, the same gos for publishing a satirical comic, or using religious imagery on TV. I don't blame the ignorant sheep who did the killing but,the often well educated assholes who goaded them on. If the UN pushed for global education standards in geography and history allot of the claims of radicals would be laughed out of relevance.

What part of the "Islamic World" is not modernized?
What do you mean by "modernized"?
And how would you propose "The world" should force this "modernization" on the "islamic world"?

You do realize that there are over a billion Muslims in the world.