Burning Koran

itsthepopei

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What part of the "Islamic World" is not modernized?
What do you mean by "modernized"?
And how would you propose "The world" should force this "modernization" on the "islamic world"?

by modernized i mean culturally. Whilst most in the west conciser religious texts with reverence few would want them to be be used as guidebooks for governance. This is a result of the enlightenment the period following the renaissance that led to most of the modern western philosophical baseline beliefs. When referring to the"Islamic world" I mean the middle east as Malaysia for the most part has fairly western views on governance.
 

Industrialsize

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by modernized i mean culturally. Whilst most in the west conciser religious texts with reverence few would want them to be be used as guidebooks for governance. This is a result of the enlightenment the period following the renaissance that led to most of the modern western philosophical baseline beliefs. When referring to the"Islamic world" I mean the middle east as Malaysia for the most part has fairly western views on governance.
I see. You want THEM to be more like US. That's quite presumptuous.http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/presumptuous
 

itsthepopei

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helgaleena

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It would be if both systems led to(in general) social and gender equality however they aren't equal in these respects. Law that only operates in black and white intrinsically leads to the suppression of the human condition.

its, you are lumping millions of people together with the crazy few of one place, Afghanistan. Also you seem to think the UN has some sort of powers of enforcement other than wagging its finger. These things you say are fine as ideals, but getting them into daily reality is a whole other struggle.
 

FRE

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what allot of hoo haa about burning a COPY of a book. probably printed in china by someone on minimum wage. it's a COPY there is thousands more. enough to go around. if one man wants to get attention by burning one is it that important ?
or is it the people giving him the attention. nothing to see here move along would have been the best response

Obviously you have not read all the posts and you do not understand Muslim attitudes.

The fact that it was a copy does not matter to them.

The fact that there are thousands more does not matter to them.

The fact that it may have been printed in China does not matter to them.

The fact is that they see ANY Koran as holy.

The fact is that the see even a written quotation from the Koran as holy.

If a person were to copy even one sentence from the Koran and burn it, they would see that as blasphemy and some of them would favor murdering the person who did the burning.

Of course it is not rational.

Of course it is a put-down for God to assume that he is incapable of punishing people who need punishing.

Of course they should leave such matters up to God instead of taking matters into their own hands.

And of course it is stupid and inconsiderate to do something, like burning the Koran, that irritates others without accomplishing anything useful.

Of course it is totally unacceptable to knowingly put others at risk by inciting others to behave in a destructive manner, which is exactly what Koran burners are doing. Knowing what would happen if they burned a Koran, they are complicit in the murders which followed.
 

yoursgetsmine

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If you wave raw hamburger in front of a Doberman, what do you expect? He's an idiot because someone will react to his misguided action/words, and innocent people paid for his stupidity with their lives. Why doesn't he go "over there" and do it....and see what happens to him? He won't, because he knows what WILL happen and he's a chicken shit and won't express his beliefs by words or deeds if he's "batter up" and has to personally answer for his ignorance!
 

123scotty

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Obviously you have not read all the posts and you do not understand Muslim attitudes.



If a person were to copy even one sentence from the Koran and burn it, they would see that as blasphemy and some of them would favor murdering the person who did the burning.

Is this an example of the peaceful koran? If you don't agree then murder is next . well thats one way to get support for your cause. yes you should respect other cultures. but remember this is a two way street. and works both ways.
 

FRE

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If you wave raw hamburger in front of a Doberman, what do you expect? He's an idiot because someone will react to his misguided action/words, and innocent people paid for his stupidity with their lives. Why doesn't he go "over there" and do it....and see what happens to him? He won't, because he knows what WILL happen and he's a chicken shit and won't express his beliefs by words or deeds if he's "batter up" and has to personally answer for his ignorance!

You're right. Also, there is another way to look at it.

Although we have freedom of speech, it is not without limits. A common example is that one could be arrested for yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. Could burning the Koran be considered similar? We know that burning the Koran will produce catastrophic results, just as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater would, so perhaps someone could also be prosecuted for burning a Koran.
 

vince

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I don't blame the ignorant sheep who did the killing but,the often well educated assholes who goaded them on. If the UN pushed for global education standards in geography and history allot of the claims of radicals would be laughed out of relevance.
If the UN was able to do that, the best place to start the education would be in the so-called "modern western world", in places where the Terry Jones' and the Fred Phelps' of the world thrive and spread their hate.
 

FRE

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If the UN was able to do that, the best place to start the education would be in the so-called "modern western world", in places where the Terry Jones' and the Fred Phelps' of the world thrive and spread their hate.

It would also be very dangerous if the UN were able to do that.
 

itsthepopei

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I said the UN because member nations can sign into commitments. That doesn't mean they always follow threw on them.
 

FRE

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I said the UN because member nations can sign into commitments. That doesn't mean they always follow threw on them.

I don't know about their throwing something. What would concern me is that they might follow through on something that is not desirable.

Where city, county, state, and federal governments are concerned, we vote for the representatives which enact laws which affect us. Where the U.N. is concerned, we don't. There is a risk that if we, and other countries, blindly submitted ourselves to laws enacted by the U.N, we could be pressured into doing things which we do not approve.

This is not a simple matter; it could be a slippery slope.
 

Getting9

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Terry Jones is simply boosting his own ego. He did not for one minute think of the consequences of his action. He is probably a megalomanic.
On the other side of the coin, I think that Muslins take their religion to extremes as they are so restricted in their life styles. No sex except for creation, no alcohol, hardly play sports and are "brainwashed" from early childhood. That's my humble opinion.
 

FRE

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Terry Jones is simply boosting his own ego. He did not for one minute think of the consequences of his action. He is probably a megalomanic.
On the other side of the coin, I think that Muslins take their religion to extremes as they are so restricted in their life styles. No sex except for creation, no alcohol, hardly play sports and are "brainwashed" from early childhood. That's my humble opinion.

Your opinion is partly correct. Surely their religion, at least in some countries, imposes restrictions to the degree that they are absurd. On the other hand, sex within marriage is encouraged by Muslims, and not just for reproduction; Muslim men are required to keep their wives sexually satisfied. Some fully approve of contraception. I myself don't ingest ethanol and, while it may be going too far to forbid it absolutely, surely, considering the problems it causes, it would be reasonable to recommend against using it. Many Muslims play soccer; in fact, soccer is very popular among Muslims.

Much of what we see as as undue restrictions are more the result of culture than Islam. During the first Persian Gulf war, I read the Koran to get a better understanding of the people who live in that part of the world. The Koran is not totally consistent and is subject to considerable interpretation. The Koran requires Muslims to respect Christians and Jews as "people of the book," i.e., the Bible, because Muslims accept much of the Bible. Although the Koran does require modest clothing, it does not require women to be covered to the degree that they are in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.

This link has Muslim swimwear suitable for women:
Islamic Swimwear for Women, Islamic Swimsuit, Hijabs, Veilkini, Kurti, Kurta | Alsharifa.com

Perhaps it is a bit extreme.
 

vince

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Terry Jones is simply boosting his own ego. He did not for one minute think of the consequences of his action. He is probably a megalomanic.
On the other side of the coin, I think that Muslins take their religion to extremes as they are so restricted in their life styles. No sex except for creation, no alcohol, hardly play sports and are "brainwashed" from early childhood. That's my humble opinion.
LOL. I got mildly drunk with about twenty Muslims last night at a dinner party to mark two years of cooperation between our companies. We went clubbing afterwards and danced and drank some more and probably did some other things that Americans think Muslims don't do.

I have had sex with Muslim women without procreating too. We have futbol (soccer) and many other sports leagues. Turkey came in third in the 2002 World Cup.

As for brainwashing, I can remember very clearly my classmates pledging allegiance to the flag in the American grade schools I attended. And going to Mass every morning before class. This is brainwashing as well.

I don't know where you are getting your information from. But I can tell you that you are misinformed and suggest you broaden your scope a bit.
 

phillyhangin

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As for brainwashing, I can remember very clearly my classmates pledging allegiance to the flag in the American grade schools I attended. And going to Mass every morning before class. This is brainwashing as well.
At my school, we didn't have to go to mass before class every day; it was a short prayer at the start of the day with mass once a month. We did, however, pledge our allegiance to the flag without fail, even before we were really old enough to understand what we were talking about; we were encouraged simply to memorize and repeat the words over and over again without being encouraged to think about what they meant or why we should want to support the ideals those words conveyed. (Sound familiar?) Any time you're expected to accept something without critical thought - especially if you're expected to accept it before you're even capable of critical thought - it does amount to a form of brainwashing.
 

rob_just_rob

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If there are a billion Muslims in the world, how do they keep track of all the Korans? Are they chipped?

Is there a ridiculously elaborate and pompous ceremony for disposing of a ripped or worn-out Koran, like there is for US flags?

If I scan the Koran into a PC and delete the file, am I going to hell?
 

t1ctac

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Priest Terry Jones was burned the Koran (muslim`s holly Book).
What is your opinion about this,Is it OK.Is it inciting hatred.
Is now Ok if Muslims in Mosques burn The Bible.
My opinion is that this is only extending war with Arabs country`s.

I take it these were questions? Yes, it is OK to burn a Koran/Bible/Kama Sutra, just like it is OK to burn a flag. Should you? Only if you have something damn important to say, otherwise you're just burning a book.
 

itsthepopei

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I don't know about their throwing something. What would concern me is that they might follow through on something that is not desirable.

Where city, county, state, and federal governments are concerned, we vote for the representatives which enact laws which affect us. Where the U.N. is concerned, we don't. There is a risk that if we, and other countries, blindly submitted ourselves to laws enacted by the U.N, we could be pressured into doing things which we do not approve.

This is not a simple matter; it could be a slippery slope.

The way the UN moves ideas around is threw treaties which have to be ratified by our elected officials.