RideRocket said:
This isn't directed at dong20, but for everyone. I keep hearing everyone complain how their personal freedoms have been taken away and curtailed. But can anyone honestly give a specific example of how they've been affected?
I'm sure several people will say, "they're listening in on my phone calls." How do you know? Can you give specific examples?
Whether one has been affected personally is irrelevant...Ignoring or understating what's happening unless it affects us personally? Sounds a bit selfish to me and, more importantly by then it may be too late.
These are some examples off the top; actual and attempted:
Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005:
Right to protest (at all) within 1km of Parliament and other 'designated' areas removed.
Criminal Justice and Police Bill
Indefinite storage of DNA and fingerprints (on acquittal or dropping of charges etc they were previously destroyed)
including those of juveniles.
Child curfew acts remove the decision about whether their own children (10-16) can be out after a certain time from parents and place it the hands of local authorities.
Reviews of detention conditions and periods for suspects being delegated to junior police officers and can be done in part by video.
Terrorism Act 2006
Anti-terror Control Order scheme ruled incompatable with the convention on human rights and breach of right to a fair trial.
Crime of Glorification of terrorism can mean whatever is required to silence dissent against anti terrorism law.
The new offences of encouragement of terrorism and dissemination of terrorist publications are extremely broadly drafted. They do not require any intention to incite others to commit criminal acts!!
Under the Act a passionate expression might be interpreted as recklessness. Since the London bombings in July 2005 there has been considerable speculation as to how comments made by Muslim clerics can be interpreted for example.
Concerns over criminalising opposition to Zimbabwe, North Korea or any other repressive regime are not properly mitigated; the side effect of which means for example, a North Korean who has advocated the overthrow of the regime while resident there, who then flees for his life might, if arriving in the UK as a refugee, be liable for prosecution.
General
'Removal' of right to silence. One can still say nothing but that's now taken as 'evidence of guilt'.
Attempted removal of automatic right to Jury Trial in 'either way' cases. That right was enacted in the Magna Carta of 1215.
Identity cards, which will have little or no impact on terrorism and a proposed national identity system for who knows what true purpose.
Extended detention without charge under terrorism legislation was attempted but defeated (for now).
Former policy of enforced deportation to Zimbabwe not enforced but still active I believe.
RideRocket said:
I think everyone would agree that there is a trade-off between personal privacy and national security. You and I will never know about the untold terrorist attacks that are prevented. We'll only know about the ones that are successful.
The only things I agree with are :
- Any Legislation should be as effective as possible up to the point it intrudes unreasonably into the lives of those who elected the ones enacting and enforcing such legislation on their behalf. i.e. it is for citizens to decide how far their Government intrudes into their lives not Government itself. History is replete with examples of what happens when Government power goes unchecked.
- This goes beyond terrorism which, I would say is to a large degree self inficted by our Governments foreign policies and overstated to create the very climate of fear they need to persue their agenda. Note: Their agenda not yours (I assume?) and certainly not mine.
- If we stand by; saying and doing nothing, we run the very real risk of destroying the very values we are seeking to protect. One day we may wake up and find our worst fears have come true, we are living in an Orwellian novel and wonder; "how the hell did we let this happen...."??
Translating the above into reality is the hard part of course....This is toooo heavy for this thread, sounds like a topic on it's own.:tongue: