Bush taking credit?!?!?!?!

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Many good comments and some strange ones, far too many for me to quote at this time but I will add my two cents:

1) Bush made a bad call on Iraq, but didn't have enough time in office to cause the intel fuck up that led to 911. That was two presidencies previous (arguably started back in Reagan administration when we were giving away guns to any group of idiots that were anti-commie)

2) Obama made a major ballsy call with this no one can deny that. If he appears to be remotely responsible for stabilizing the economy, he is a shoe in next election

3) SEALS (if it really was them) performed admirably as expected, however for this op based on all that has been leaked out so far, with regards to the size and composition of the force was a cake walk for them

4) OBL was a throw away. I am wondering what was given up for the breaking pieces of intel.

5) What's next? This isn't the end, it's just the end of a chapter.
 

B_VinylBoy

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Uncovering the name of the courier 4 years ago that led American Intelligence to Bin laden "did nothing to locate bin laden"? Are you serious?

Did I stutter?
That was an insanely desperate attempt to give credit to the previous administration for their follies towards capturing Osama Bin Laden. At one point during the earliest surges under the Bush administration, our military had Bin Laden cornered in Afghanistan. It was rumored and propagated by the usual media sources that he was "hiding in caves" or outcasted to some remote area in the mountains. None of that turned out to be true. On top of that, the previous administration dropped their pursuit of Bin Laden and turned their attentions to Iraq and Sadaam Hussein who had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. And by the end of the Bush legacy, there was talk about going into Iran which was also not a factor in 9/11.

With those additional pieces to the puzzle in place, that's more evidence to support the theory that the intelligence received 4 years ago did nothing to help Obama's efforts last weekend.

You asked for someone to provide evidence that the intelligence strand leading to Bin Laden's death originated during the Bush administration. I obviously provided you with information that you were not aware of yet.

You have no idea what I'm aware of or not. I actually get a physical and digital copy of the NY Times regularly so it's not as if that timeline wasn't accessible to millions of people before you ever decided to provide it as a link. Again, you made the argument and claimed that I would be "eating my words". You still haven't made that happen.

And that's fine Vinyl. Hell, we are only 30 hours into this whole thing. But instead of flopping and rolling like a fish out of water to deflect the fact that I corrected you, just for once say "oh, ok, i wasnt aware of those facts yet."

Again, you're assuming what I knew and what I didn't know instead of trying to make an actual case that has relevance. Two links to a NY-Times and CNN piece don't do shit for you right now.

This just shows that being "right" is more important to you than the truth. Sad.

Usually those who are in the right have the truth to their side to some degree. So this comment is rather pointless. :rolleyes:

As for your diatribe on the enhanced interrogation methods and intelligence, You wasted your time there. Its gonna come out soon that the name of the courier was given by KSM and other detainees during waterboarding 4 years ago (under the Bush administration).

You continually ignore the context of my messages so there's no way you can ever figure out if what I posted was a waste in formulating my argument... although in some ways I knew that would happen so on that level it is a waste of time. And BTW, less crystal ball predictions and more facts please. Until actual proof that we can analyze and verify is presented, it's foolish to base an opinion just on sheer speculation and a venomous hope for something to smear the image of a man you don't like.
 
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Industrialsize

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Oh really? Its been 28 hours since the "most recent events" and this has already been "established? Established by who? Where? Please share your sources on this.
Senate Intel Chair: Torture Did Not Lead To Bin Laden In Any Way


More and more evidence suggests a key piece of intelligence -- the first link in the chain of information that led U.S. intelligence officials to Osama bin Laden -- wasn't tortured out of its source. And, indeed, that torture failed to produce it.
"To the best of our knowledge, based on a look, none of it came as a result of harsh interrogation practices," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee in a wide-ranging press conference.
Moreover, Feinstein added, nothing about the sequence of events that culminated in Sunday's raid vindicates the Bush-era techniques, nor their use of black sites -- secret prisons, operated by the CIA.
"Aboslutely not, I do not," Feinstein said. "I happen to know a good deal about how those interrogations were conducted, and in my view nothing justifies the kind of procedures that were used."


Moreover Feinstein claimed, the Obama administration's decision to reconstitute the CIA's bin Laden unit, which the Bush administration shuttered in 2005, was a key factor. "I think it was very crucial," she said. "I mean this has been there for a substantial period of time. People become experienced with the intelligence."
Not all Republicans are claiming that bin Laden's killing vindicates torture. At a Capitol press conference Tuesday afternoon, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) stood apart from his colleagues in the GOP. "This idea we caught bin Laden because of waterboarding I think is a misstatement," he said. "This whole concept of how we caught bin Laden is a lot of work over time by different people and putting the puzzle together. I do not believe this is a time to celebrate waterboarding, I believe this is a time to celebrate hard work."




Senate Intel Chair: Torture Did Not Lead To Bin Laden In Any Way | TPMDC
 

B_24065

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Did I stutter?
That was an insanely desperate attempt to give credit to the previous administration for their follies towards capturing Osama Bin Laden. At one point during the earliest surges under the Bush administration, our military had Bin Laden cornered in Afghanistan. It was rumored and propagated by the usual media sources that he was "hiding in caves" or outcasted to some remote area in the mountains. None of that turned out to be true. On top of that, the previous administration dropped their pursuit of Bin Laden and turned their attentions to Iraq and Sadaam Hussein who had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. And by the end of the Bush legacy, there was talk about going into Iran which was also not a factor in 9/11.

With those additional pieces to the puzzle in place, that's more evidence to support the theory that the intelligence received 4 years ago did nothing to help Obama's efforts last weekend.



You have no idea what I'm aware of or not. I actually get a physical and digital copy of the NY Times regularly so it's not as if that timeline wasn't accessible to millions of people before you ever decided to provide it as a link. Again, you made the argument and claimed that I would be "eating my words". You still haven't made that happen.



Again, you're assuming what I knew and what I didn't know instead of trying to make an actual case that has relevance. Two links to a NY-Times and CNN piece don't do shit for you right now.



Usually those who are in the right have the truth to their side to some degree. So this comment is rather pointless. :rolleyes:



You continually ignore the context of my messages so there's no way you can ever figure out if what I posted was a waste in formulating my argument... although in some ways I knew that would happen so on that level it is a waste of time. And BTW, less crystal ball predictions and more facts please. Until actual proof that we can analyze and verify is presented, it's foolish to base an opinion just on sheer speculation and a venomous hope for something to smear the image of a man you don't like.

Its amazing how intellectually dishonest you are. Either that or just plain fucking retarded. Saying that the identification of the courier by Bush's CIA in 2007 had nothing to do with locating him 4 years later is like saying the first 3 games of the World series had nothing to do with Giants winning the world series in game 5, or that beating the Phillies in the NLCS had nothing to do with them winning the World series as well. Ever heard of causality? perhaps not. Its a term for those who understand reason and logic. You are all about connecting the Dots huh? Why cant you connect the dots on this? Oh, because it contradicts your earlier post saying there was no link to the previous administrations intelligence gathering efforts and Bin Laden's death. Fuckn rediculous Vinyl. Notice how none of your ass buddies here are coming to your defence? You need to just quit here dude. Oh, and sorry a NYT article and an interview with the former CIA director wasnt credible enough for you. Sorry for giving you the benefit of the doubt concerning you not knowing about the NYT article and them detailing that the intelligence that led to Bin laden's death began in 2007. If you did know of this article and then still wrote that there was no intel link between the two administrations then I am wasting my time debating an irrational person and this conversation is over. No point in arguing with me over their content. Argue with the NYT and the former CIA director over it. i was just relaying info that you asked for in your earlier post.

Barack Obama deserves alot of credit for what happened on sunday. Bush deserves credit for gathering intelligence and working through thousands and thousands of leads in order to determine that the only way Bin Laden would be found is if we could find, identify, and locate his couriers. Bush found and identified his courier long before Obama was in office. Obama then located the courier based on the lead in August, which ultimately lead us to the compound in Pakistan. Obama simply continued down the path that Bush laid out for him, and Obama deserves credit for that.

What impressed me about Obama was not that he found Bin Laden. the wheels were already set in motion long ago. He was gonna be found anyways. What was impressive was when and how he handled the situation. First, rather than letting Bin laden stay there under surveilance in the compound for a more politically expedient time to kill him (like next summer) Obama decided to act immediately. Second, rather than simply dropping a bomb on the joint, Obama took a huge risk in sending in the seals. Had that mission failed and Bin laden escaped it would without a doubt cost him his presidency (when dropping a bomb would have insured his death). It was a gutsy call and he decerves ALL the credit for that.
 
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You make it seem like any government should be omnipotent but no one no matter how well informed can foresee and prevent everything. I'm not trying to defend Bush or condemn him. I'm just saying blaming 9/11 on him ans his administration is the mark of a complete prat.
 

yoursgetsmine

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This thing has been in play for years.....even when Clinton was in office. The results have never been satisfactory to our expectations until now. There have been chances to take him out, but prior administrations balked. Busch set the standard after 9-11 when he said "no matter when he's found and no matter what country he's found in, we're taking him out" There are/were a lot of intell personnel involved, the military, the CIA, and finally the final piece of the puzzle.....actionable intell that became available that led to this house and Bin Laden for his "final" showdown.

The initial info came during interrogations during the past decade, and built from that. Where this president came into it was that he made it a priority, and made the final call on which scenario to enact...bombing or an up close and personal take down.

The heroic action was on the part of the CIA and Seal team that accomplished the mission and did the training....to almost perfection during the actual raid. Why fight over the details to achieve the political bent that everyone likes to do and take credit? The action team that executed the raid, the intell personnel that cracked the case, the interrogators that gleaned the original bits and pieces throughout the last several years, the congress and administrations funding the "chase" and the final "hunt" ALL deserve the kudos and thanks/appreciation from the rest of us and the world for popping this monster......

I look at this like we all did right after 9-11...somehow it was all of us together, united and all of us achieving something long over due as "Americans" as if we all pulled the trigger, and I felt damn glad of it and PROUD to be an AMERICAN!!

One last comment....an anonymous author once said "Success has many authors but failure is anonymous" and it always seems like someone likes to hog the credit and the glory....but in this case, there's plenty of failures and plenty of success to be spread around to a lot of people over a lot of years.....so let's just say as Americans "thank you to ALL who had ANY part in this so longed for and so desired conclusion to at least one chapter in the war on terror.

After all, it was a continuous effort over a long period that brought this bastard to ground and no one individual can nor should take the credit.....it's not POLITICAL....it's JUSTICE!!
 
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chatterbox2010

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Let's be clear on this: OBAMA did NOT kill Bin Laden. An American soldier, who Obama just a few weeks ago was debating on whether or not to PAY, did. Obama just happened to be the one in office when our soldiers finally found OBL and took him out. This is NOT an Obama victory, but an AMERICAN victory!!
 

B_24065

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Senate Intel Chair: Torture Did Not Lead To Bin Laden In Any Way


More and more evidence suggests a key piece of intelligence -- the first link in the chain of information that led U.S. intelligence officials to Osama bin Laden -- wasn't tortured out of its source. And, indeed, that torture failed to produce it.
"To the best of our knowledge, based on a look, none of it came as a result of harsh interrogation practices," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee in a wide-ranging press conference.
Moreover, Feinstein added, nothing about the sequence of events that culminated in Sunday's raid vindicates the Bush-era techniques, nor their use of black sites -- secret prisons, operated by the CIA.
"Aboslutely not, I do not," Feinstein said. "I happen to know a good deal about how those interrogations were conducted, and in my view nothing justifies the kind of procedures that were used."


Moreover Feinstein claimed, the Obama administration's decision to reconstitute the CIA's bin Laden unit, which the Bush administration shuttered in 2005, was a key factor. "I think it was very crucial," she said. "I mean this has been there for a substantial period of time. People become experienced with the intelligence."
Not all Republicans are claiming that bin Laden's killing vindicates torture. At a Capitol press conference Tuesday afternoon, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) stood apart from his colleagues in the GOP. "This idea we caught bin Laden because of waterboarding I think is a misstatement," he said. "This whole concept of how we caught bin Laden is a lot of work over time by different people and putting the puzzle together. I do not believe this is a time to celebrate waterboarding, I believe this is a time to celebrate hard work."




Senate Intel Chair: Torture Did Not Lead To Bin Laden In Any Way | TPMDC

Dianne Feinstein? Lol, she's credible? The only reason she made this statement was because the press was asking this question. It'll all come out in time. let's be patient.
 

B_VinylBoy

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Its amazing how intellectually dishonest you are. Either that or just plain fucking retarded.

It was only a matter of time before you start to resort to your usual bouts of politically bigoted tourettes. Don't get mad that I don't blindly accept your flimsy arguments. If you want my respect (even a shred of it), you'll form a better one. Period. Otherwise you will step down and go quietly back into the realm of irrelevance where you belong. Understand?

Ever heard of causality? perhaps not. Its a term for those who understand reason and logic. You are all about connecting the Doots huh? Why cant you connect the dots on this? Oh, because it contradicts your earlier post saying there was no link to the previous administrations intelligence gathering efforts and Bin Laden's death. Fuckn rediculous Vinyl. Notice how none of your ass buddies here are coming to your defence? You need to just quit here dude.

More deflection, eh? That's a clear sign that you have nothing worth a damn to contribute to the thread topic. :rolleyes:

First off, it is not my job to do research to support your argument. Since you claim that I don't know a damn thing, you have to get off your lazy behind and do it. So connect your own damn "doots" or whatever you want to call them. Secondly, I don't need people to defend me on every single piece of ASCII I type because I can discredit you all by myself. And I take some kind of sadistic pride in doing that, especially in your case. The people I respect and associate with here are all strong minded individuals who can stand on their own, make their own arguments, and can decide on their own whether or not they want to assist me with proving you wrong. Besides, if you haven't noticed I do have much more respect on this board than you ever would as well as more friend requests. Seriously, you of all people, who have called me everything from a libtard to a "diseased, dicksucking f*****" since you first stepped foot on LPSG should be the last person trying to make board support from other forum members an issue since very few (if not anyone) wouldn't care if you were buried at sea like Bin Laden tomorrow. Check your profile. It's barren for a reason.

Barack Obama deserves alot of credit for what happened on sunday. Bush deserves credit for gathering intelligence and working through thousands and thousands of leads in order to determine that the only way Bin Laden would be found is if we could find, identify, and locate his couriers. Bush found and identified his courier long before Obama was in office. Obama then located the courier based on the lead in August, which ultimately lead us to the compound in Pakistan. Obama simply continued down the path that Bush laid out for him.

You give Bush too much credit. The Bush Administration showed a continuous disregard to intelligence from day one because if they did pay attention to it all 9/11 wouldn't have ever happened. They received briefings about a terrorist plot to hijack airplanes and fly them into the World Trade Center and the White House months before it happened, yet not a thing was done until it was too late. The previous administration had Bin Laden "cornered" in 2002 and let him escape. Then, instead of following up with leads regarding Bin Laden they focused their attentions on Iraq. If anything, we thank the intelligence gatherers who were on duty under his administration for finding a very vague and small lead that needed four additional years of research to see through. If you follow the timeline as listed in the link you provided, it wasn't until August of last year that more helpful leads were being discovered. Due to your staunch political bigotries, you are doing nothing but trying to imply that the current administration wouldn't have been able to do anything without Bush. Contrary to your beliefs, that is the only intellectual dishonesty going on here.

Seriously, dude... who do you think you're bullshittin' here?

What impressed me about Obama was not that he found Bin Laden. the wheels were already set in motion long ago. He was gonna be found anyways. What was impressive was when and how he handled the situation. First, rather than letting Bin laden stay there under surveilance in the compound for a more politically expedient time to kill him (like next summer) Obama decided to act immediately. Second, rather than simply dropping a bomb on the joint, Obama took a huge risk in sending in the seals. Had that mission failed and Bin laden escaped it would without a doubt cost him his presidency (when dropping a bomb would have insured his death). It was a gutsy call and he decerves ALL the credit for that.

He deserves more than that, but don't worry I won't expect you or anyone who is so insanely partisan to give it to him. BTW, this sounds just like a soundbite I heard on MSNBC about 20 minutes ago.
 
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houtx48

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Let's be clear on this: OBAMA did NOT kill Bin Laden. An American soldier, who Obama just a few weeks ago was debating on whether or not to PAY, did. Obama just happened to be the one in office when our soldiers finally found OBL and took him out. This is NOT an Obama victory, but an AMERICAN victory!!
Somebody has been on facebook again.
 

cocktaste

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Let's be clear on this: OBAMA did NOT kill Bin Laden. An American soldier, who Obama just a few weeks ago was debating on whether or not to PAY, did. Obama just happened to be the one in office when our soldiers finally found OBL and took him out. This is NOT an Obama victory, but an AMERICAN victory!!

Doesn't work that way, but thanks for playing, Tea Bag!
 

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Dianne Feinstein? Lol, she's credible? The only reason she made this statement was because the press was asking this question. It'll all come out in time. let's be patient.
Go back to sucking Sarah Plain's dick!

Torture had nothing to do with this. The Right is trumping up an unnamed source who made this assertion.

I know how you lot love killing things, but nothing you ever did resulted in success. You let a murderer go free for nearly a decade. You killed millions of innocent men, women, and children, and sent soldiers to their deaths all because you kept screaming a lie. Yes, Mission Accomplished, babe! You made a mess out of the US, and made us a complete embarrassment to the rest of the world.

The adults are in control now. You lost, but continue babbling away why we clean up your 8 years of mess.
 

B_24065

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It was only a matter of time before you start to resort to your usual bouts of politically bigoted tourettes. Don't get mad that I don't blindly accept your flimsy arguments. If you want my respect (even a shred of it), you'll form a better one. Period. Otherwise you will step down and go quietly back into the realm of irrelevance where you belong. Understand?



More deflection, eh? That's a clear sign that you have nothing worth a damn to contribute to the thread topic. :rolleyes:

First off, it is not my job to do research to support your argument. Since you claim that I don't know a damn thing, you have to get off your lazy behind and do it. So connect your own damn "doots" or whatever you want to call them. Secondly, I don't need people to defend me on every single piece of ASCII I type because I can discredit you all by myself. And I take some kind of sadistic pride in doing that, especially in your case. The people I respect and associate with here are all strong minded individuals who can stand on their own, make their own arguments, and can decide on their own whether or not they want to assist me with proving you wrong. Besides, if you haven't noticed I do have much more respect on this board than you ever would as well as more friend requests. Seriously, you of all people, who have called me everything from a libtard to a "diseased, dicksucking f*****" since you first stepped foot on LPSG should be the last person trying to make board support from other forum members an issue since very few (if not anyone) wouldn't care if you were buried at sea like Bin Laden tomorrow. Check your profile. It's barren for a reason.



You give Bush too much credit. The Bush Administration showed a continuous disregard to intelligence from day one because if they did pay attention to it all 9/11 wouldn't have ever happened. They received briefings about a terrorist plot to hijack airplanes and fly them into the World Trade Center and the White House months before it happened, yet not a thing was done until it was too late. The previous administration had Bin Laden "cornered" in 2002 and let him escape. Then, instead of following up with leads regarding Bin Laden they focused their attentions on Iraq. If anything, we thank the intelligence gatherers who were on duty under his administration for finding a very vague and small lead that needed four additional years of research to see through. If you follow the timeline as listed in the link you provided, it wasn't until August of last year that more helpful leads were being discovered. Due to your staunch political bigotries, you are doing nothing but trying to imply that the current administration wouldn't have been able to do anything without Bush. Contrary to your beliefs, that is the only intellectual dishonesty going on here.

Seriously, dude... who do you think you're bullshittin' here?



He deserves more than that, but don't worry I won't expect you or anyone who is so insanely partisan to give it to him. BTW, this sounds just like a soundbite I heard on MSNBC about 20 minutes ago.

Really? Perhaps they read my post and decided to repeat it. I wasn't watching MSNBC.

Anyways, you cant be reasoned with. Im done.
 

B_VinylBoy

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Really? Perhaps they read my post and decided to repeat it. I wasn't watching MSNBC.

I sincerely doubt that political commentators on MSNBC are getting their copy from an anonymous, politically bigoted hack from a website about big dicks. But whatever floats your boat.

Anyways, you cant be reasoned with. Im done.

I can be reasoned with, alas, you just lack the ability to do so. You posted vague evidence using two seemingly disconnected sources and thought you were writing bible passages when in reality it was more like chicken scratch. One of these days, you'll learn how to make a solid argument and come with additional backup sources to help you move forward. Better yet, maybe you'll be able to actually formulate one by just simply sourcing a few passages from articles and actually create your own. Wishful thinking, I know.

But thanks for playing anyhow. :rolleyes:
 
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motorcityboy

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Let's be clear on this: OBAMA did NOT kill Bin Laden. An American soldier, who Obama just a few weeks ago was debating on whether or not to PAY, did. Obama just happened to be the one in office when our soldiers finally found OBL and took him out. This is NOT an Obama victory, but an AMERICAN victory!!
If this was bush or a republican, the tea party and republicans would be high 5'ing each other and doing fucking back flips all over FOX. You wouldn't hear the end of their shit,
but because Obama that made the call and "MANNED UP" , they will do or say anything not to give him credit for the call.
It's pretty clear they can't fucking stand him .
He could fix the economy , give us health care, finish both wars, bring down gas to 1.00 a gallon , give every man, woman and child and 90% tax break . Come to your house cook your dinner , wipe your butt when your done pooping , put you to bed and give you a good night kiss, and walk on water and they still would HATE him, and we all know why, let's just be honest .
just saying
 
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conntom

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This is an American victory.

I can't stand Obama. But I give him all the credit in the world for giving the OK to take that guy out. Thank you Obama.

Bush deserves credit, the CIA, the military and those SEALs. It took years of work to get this guy by a lot of people. Yes. Obama deserves some too. I don't like the Obots trying to make it seem like getting OBL was all done on Obama's watch. But he did give the order and thank you for that!
 

B_VinylBoy

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Bush deserves credit, the CIA, the military and those SEALs. It took years of work to get this guy by a lot of people. Yes. Obama deserves some too. I don't like the Obots trying to make it seem like getting OBL was all done on Obama's watch. But he did give the order and thank you for that!

Obots? Seriously, can you make a post without trying to ridicule Obama supporters at least once in your life? :rolleyes:
 

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B_VinylBoy

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