Business Groups Launch Ad Against Health Care Bill

Discussion in 'Politics' started by midlifebear, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. midlifebear

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    Go to Business Groups Launch Ad Against Health Care Bill - ABC News to read about an anti-health care ad costing between 4 and 10 million bucks to be thrown at "the heart land" starting this week. It's all about why we don't need national health care. It's bought and paid for by . . . well, you can easily guess (hint: not Republican money, they're already bought). A short quote from the article: "Health insurance companies, excoriated by Obama over a recent spate of double-digit premium hikes, are helping to pay for the ads, said Bruce Josten, a top lobbyist for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, coordinating the campaign."

    As a member of a "heart land cow town" chamber of commerce, we've never had health care as an item on our monthly agenda. In fact, the most successful thing we've ever done is to promote and host wine tasting evenings in the old down-town district where we get you liquored up on a cheeky little pinot noir or saucy sauvignon, then fleece you at the local art galleries, restaurants, and antique stores as you walk along a designated map. Free rides homes are offered to all participants. Even the mormons have been on board for this event which happens twice a year. But since when did a chamber of commerce need to worry about health care, except to cover it's ancillary employees? All of us, except the secretary and admin exec, have figured pay for our own health care (or, like me, have made other arrangements). :eek:
     
    #1 midlifebear, Mar 10, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2010
  2. justasimpleguy

    justasimpleguy Active Member

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    They've been at it since people started pushing for reform. Of course, with 35k lobbyists in DC all together...it's hard to fight 'em. They are legion.
     
  3. sargon20

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    They know if they can convince people to 'kill the bill and start over' they can actually kill it period. There is simply zero intention to 'start over'. See how well they 'started over' after they killed Clinton's attempt.
     
  4. FuzzyKen

    FuzzyKen New Member

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    The subject is not unlike the Bill in that it tends to go off on tangents as we can witness in the other thread that started to talk about this same exact subject.

    The posting I had in mind is that the American People need to "wake up" and realize that the enemy in this particular case is NOT the Government, it is not, some liberal or conservative viewpoint.

    The problem is that Corporate America will say or do anything to prevent either changes or controls over health care. It is a cash cow and if they have their way there will be no health care insurance for people with health problems because it will be immediately cancelled if you need to use it. The people involved have been slowly manipulating this into being the situation now for several decades.

    Treatment denied because of "pre-existing conditions", treatment denied because some pill that is expensive is "re-classifed" as "experimental.

    It is not Democrtatic Senator Jones, It is not Republican Senator Smith. They are ALL 100% of them in the pocket of Corporate America and unless WE the citizens of this country get wise to the fraudulent publicity we are getting with regards to healthcare reform we are going to have people dying in the streets and those same people will have paid dearly for the care they did not get.

    Imagine paying $20,000 per year for Health Care Insurance. Can't afford it? That's not important because we are going to make it mandatory that you the private citizen subsidize the private corporation because we are going to make it a law that you do!

    Think about this one people!

    I have given this example before. Virtually every state that has enacted mandatory motor vehicle insuranace came to the voters and said with a publicity campaign. Making this mandatory is going to lower your insurance rates because there will be no uninsured drivers.

    I have an observation...There are still uninsured drivers AND my insurance rates for vehicles has done nothing but go up because NOW as a law abilding citizen I have no choice but to keep paying more and more as my State (and yours) has dictated that we absolutely MUST subsidize a private profit making corporation or be in violation of law.

    The idea here is to FORCE change. Either we regulate the industry dictating at least for a time what they can and cannot do OR we present an alternative.

    Private Carriers are terrified of a public insurance option because they will lose profits. They would no longer be able to fix prices, they would no longer be able to insure only healthy people.

    What we have now is VERY broken!

    Sad but it is true. If major insurance companies continue to get the "carte blanche" that they have had you will by law within 10 years be paying for a service that you will never get. It is easy to point out the technology in cancer treatment, the new wonder drug, the organ transplant that saves lives. Insurance companies my friends are currently denying this to many of their subscribers and when they need it the companies simply begin to raise the premiums until the patient can no longer afford the insurance.

    This forces people on to public aid programs such as Medicare/Medicaid and you still pay for it and in a far less efficient manner.

    I can cite many examples of this kind of thing and some have happened in my own family.

    There is a simple solution. Write to your elected representatives and ask for a full and complete government AUDIT of all private health care providers. In addition if they can send out a Census, they can send out other forms and have people respond based on experience in a simple way with regards to health care to find out what they actually do have.

    Right now all any of us are hearing is political rhetoric from major corporations placing profit over and on a more important level than the "public good". Remember and pay careful attention to my wording here. Eminment Domain and many other things that take place are done in the name of "The Public Good".

    Right now the United States is at a turning point. I know what I would do if I were in Obama's shoes on this issue and he has the power to do it. He is just trying to be "too nice" and the scare tactics being used by Corporate America are having greater and greater effect as he wastes time.
     
  5. gymfresh

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    It's never made sense to me why the US Chamber of Commerce is dead-set against any healthcare reform. American businesses have been howling for decades that they are handicapped on the world stage with the yoke of providing health coverage to their workers. From startups to Fortune 1000 companies, CEOs have consistently said that it's "unfair" that their European, Asian and S American competitors don't carry a current or pension healthcare burden -- instead, most citizens are covered through taxes.

    Ignoring for the moment that American companies got themselves into this mess by exploiting a tax break (no one forced them to choose employee insurance benefits over simply more salary), the logical solution is for corporate America to forcefully lobby the government to create universal health coverage for all Americans and streamline the benefits burden on American companies. The sensible way to do this is to send all current corporate healthcare contributions to a pool that would be matched by tax dollars, eventually phasing out the corporate contribution in favor of improved salaries so employees can pay the premiums themselves to a private insurer, either for-profit or nonprofit, or to a public option.

    But get health, dental and vision benefits off the books of corporate America. Ditto for life insurance and long-term care insurance. Let employees buy these benefits in the open market and make it illegal for employers to provide them and screw the system up again.
     
  6. FuzzyKen

    FuzzyKen New Member

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    Corporate America is free to make profits and free to do what they want with their money and always have been. I do not have current costs, but the last time I discussed this with a Canadian friend as I remember his nationalized health coverage was costing him something like $46 per paycheck and he was paid every two weeks. He tended bar up in Toronto and that was his main job. He was also an HIV patient and was on the cocktail and required both testosterone and HGH injections to combat the wasting syndrome.

    His health care was excellent and he was definitely not complaining about his care or that of any of his friends.

    There are many differences between the United States when it comes to pension funding. Social Security has been so "bungled" by elected officials that people would not believe it.

    There has been incredible siphoning of funds from Social Security into other things totally unrelated.

    Here is an interesting example: My Mother spent a good part of her life working as an RN and as a second job she worked for the Railroad Hospital System (when they had one) and had paid into Social Security. She had been married twice. Both my biological and Stepfather paid in also. This makes a total of three people paying into the fund. In addition she paid into a separate retirement fund under the railroad. She was only able to collect one of these pensions in spite of paying into multiples for her entire working career. If she collected the railroad pension she could not have social security, if she collected social security she could not have the railroad pension.

    What she and most others do is to take the highest one and this was the railroad pension.

    People have been sold a bill of goods by lying thieving corporations for decades.

    The United States Chamber of Commerce is against Health Care Reform simply because they too are subject to the influence of major corporations.

    Tendrils of Corporate America reach through and grab on in very "hidden" ways.

    Let's look surprisingly at Gay Marriage:

    Remember that this issue has the potential to hit corporate america very hard. If gay marriage were legalized, gay individuals currently receiving treatment for HIV and other disease processes would under current legal standings be granted the same rights as those in heterosexual marriages. This means that many HIV patients would be transferred from public aid programs to private insurance under the policies of the individuals still healthy or healthy enough to work.

    When you donate money and form a political action committee you can without hesitation or legal binding call that committee by name anything you want. If you dig deep enough and hard enough it would not be a surprise to find that the main people funding the fight against gay marriage are again those who stand to lose money if these rights are granted. Because they are not really required to make it clear who they are (or is it whom?) they can easily pose as a religious institution or under an assumed name donate billions of dollars to these causes using the "religious right" to in essence launder their presence by making it appear that it is "born agains" doing the dirty deeds when it really may not be.

    Most of us have been far too quick to place blame and those out to get the cash have learned very well how to cloak their presence and see to it that somebody else gets the blame when they do.

    Follow the Money. . . .
     
  7. midlifebear

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    Color me a bit confused, but as an owner of several small businesses in Elko, NV, I've never been made aware that I was forced by any State or Federal law to provide health insurance for my employees. Maybe it's different for large corporations. I have to admit I don't know. However, I do know that my CPA would call me on the matt and make me seriously aware if it's something that small enterprise is required to do by law. Actually, my CPA has indicated that I will probably have to quit offering group health insurance that the women who work for me have been fortunate enough to take advantage of for more than 20 years. They are all over 50 and it will not be feasible for the businesses to pay premiums much higher than the current rates. And as I mentioned in another post, I had to remove myself from the "insured" to negotiate a lower premium for everyone else. We may end up paying "matching" benefits for a while, but that's just sliding half the cost of health insurance onto the employees, cutting into their bottom line.

    Fuzzyken brought up the issue of having a parent who was unable to collect social security and a pension. This must be an issue that's dealt with State by State. I know that if you're retired and receiving Social Security, you are allowed to work a bare minimum of hours each week to augment your fixed income. Beyond a certain magic number of work hours the Feds begin to deduct from your Social Security benefits until you end up owing the Feds money. A rather nasty, vindictive thing in my opinion. Also, the fact that seniors must pay income tax on their social security is a bit unjust, because the majority of them are living at or just under the poverty line. I'm sure someone familiar with the "simple" tax codes of the USA can shed light on how seniors are able to work around paying a punitive tax on the Social Security. Remember the great promises of everyone having a fabulous IRA or 401K to help live in the lap of luxury during our golden years? Don't count on it.

    However, as far as pensions go, my father had two: Carnegie/Mellon United States Steel Workers and another full pension from Union Pacific Railroad. He retired after what was at the time in his generation the requisite 20 years as a railroad engineer and went to work for Geneva Steel (one of the worst managed companies in the State of Ewetaw). Upon his retirement from Geneva Steel he collected two pensions plus received a paltry $1,300 (or something like that) as a monthly social security check. However, he also owned a farm that actually produced something, and I'm certain there were certain tax benefits he was able to take advantage of. Again, this must be a State by State issue, because I'm confident the family's attorneys and CPA would have notified my father if he was doing something wrong.

    Many career military retire after their first 20 years, begin collecting their retirement checks and go back to work for the government (as a preferred veteran) in some sort of capacity. When they retire from their government job at 62.5 or 65 years of age, they then begin to collect their second government pension check along with their continuing military pension as well as Social Security. These are the famous "double dippers" some of you may have heard about. However, maybe Congress did something about them and the rules have changed. But I doubt it.

    I like to tell people that I'm retired when pressed with "What do you do?" But I have absolutely no confidence in the "market" and even less in the idea that I'll benefit, even modestly, from Social Security. Therefore, I made it a goal to make sure I had LLCs in place to pay for my ancillary costs (not a direct salary), and enough passive income rolling in each month that I wouldn't have to worry about being benefit poor in the USA. Of course, this took some guts and diligence. I also moved out of the USA to accomplish my goals.

    As many have posted regarding health care, I'm solidly against anyone making a profit off of the misery and pain of others. In my opinion, societies should value its members -- all ages -- by providing decent health care. Granted, it's never "free", but there is absolutely no reason for anyone in the USA to spend their way into bankruptcy just to have heart surgery (as an example) and then live at or below the poverty level in most likely a rather cranky mood until they die. It's simply inhumane.

    I have no idea what kind of changes the new health legislation will bring with it if and when it is passed, but it most certainly will be better than the current system of "pay the fuck up or die!" One thing I am certain of is that "the sky is falling" posters who crank out the same ranting points time after time after time are not concerned with anyone else's well-being except their own.
     
    #7 midlifebear, Mar 14, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2010
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