Calling it out - respect for women

[MisterB]

First, we can start by building a woman's self-esteem at home when they are young. My daughter is not going to be a sex toy with the need for a man to treat her poorly. Second, there are so many people who bully anyone they see as less than themselves that we may never get to them all in this lifetime. So pick your battles wisely. Third, I stick up for the underdog in every confrontation and I never do it for something as small as my ego. I do because I am the victim. I will say that some women have begun to take the equal word and replace it with alpha. This is not going to help the cause. Men have earned the lost respect I suppose. But I was not the one who cheated and left home with five children and no child support. I lost visitation and due process with my daughter because the mother said she owns the courts and the system. When I left from the abuse she made sure I would never see her again. Women have been putting stuff on the web bragging about cheating on men in the service of this country and others have bragged about getting knocked up by a 3rd man and quoted it as the trifecta. We are human and as such we make a road that others have to travel on. Don't assume because I am a man that I have broken girls hearts. They have done some damage to me as well and I don't assume you are just like they are. And to be clear, my ego means nothing to me. My self worth does. View attachment 1154627

From reading your post, you are obviously hurting. You started out so well. You had my attention with your first sentence. The second sentence about your daughter not being raised to be a sex toy, maybe not so much, but okay, I'm gonna keep reading.

But alas, all the stuff you wrote after that is about a situation you experienced. I'm sorry for what you went through, with a specific woman in your life. You state you are a victim. Again, I'm sorry for what you went through. I truly hope you can get some help and work through your obvious pain.

But this thread is in Women's Issues. Not Men's Issues. The leap you made from "She done me wrong" to "All women done me wrong" is just pathetic. And has no bearing on this thread. What you've done is disrespectful. And not just to the women here.

Sure, there are shit men and shit women out there. But don't bring your generalizations in here. Take your specific issues to the Ask a Man forum. Or the Ask a Straight Man forum. Seriously. You'll stand a much better chance of getting some feedback that may help you work though your angst.

I wish you well.

 

[Sagittarius84]

There was a time i was younger and more naive when i wouldn't hesitate to speak up on woman's behalf..being as i wasn't exactly physically imposing that did little but get me laughed at. Later on, self admittedly i did it as a white knighting tactic to gain girls' favor..now honestly I'm a bit jaded, because often the respect i have for women they don't have for themselves. If i know specific context, like some random dude is harassing then ill speak up/get involved, but i stay out of potentially domestic disputes because more often than not she was attracted to his abusive traits and is likely to go right back to him, if not chastising you for daring to interfere. When that changes on the whole, I think you'll see a lot more men willing to stick their neck out on women's behalf.

 

[AlteredEgo]

There was a time i was younger and more naive when i wouldn't hesitate to speak up on woman's behalf..being as i wasn't exactly physically imposing that did little but get me laughed at. Later on, self admittedly i did it as a white knighting tactic to gain girls' favor..now honestly I'm a bit jaded, because often the respect i have for women they don't have for themselves. If i know specific context, like some random dude is harassing then ill speak up/get involved, but i stay out of potentially domestic disputes because more often than not she was attracted to his abusive traits and is likely to go right back to him, if not chastising you for daring to interfere. When that changes on the whole, I think you'll see a lot more men willing to stick their neck out on women's behalf.

LOL. You have no idea what we're talking about, do you?

 

[MickeyLee]

It took longer than I thought it would.. but the white knight has arrived.

Along with all the bullshit that goes along with it.

@Sagittarius84 is a prime example of the decline of LPSG. The more this site becomes a porn site, the more it attracts the anti-woman porn audience. *sigh*

 

[Sagittarius84]

I guess i fail to see the anti woman slant. Experience has taught me that that inserting oneself into domestic disputes even in cases of abuse can draw ire from not only the abuser, but the abused. Even as a microcosm of that I can remember countless times in my youth when daring to speak ill of a boy a girl was infatuated with, would get me called a hater even if it were in their best interests...so all I say is look for contextual clues before inserting oneself into a public confrontation, to practice a bit of situational awareness, no different than a soldier in a hostile area.
Besides you never know how bullies will react and people need to dispel this myth that a man that beats/abuses women is automatically going to back down from or not strike out against an outside male presence. That, plus I have some other things going against me culturally and demographically that don't lend well to public confrontation, not to mention the high gun ownership/carrying in my state; it culminates in me be team Call the Police
Its funny how statistics get published about the high gun ownership and other violent crime proclivities common to domestically abusive men, but suggesting a man be a bit wary about inserting himself in certain situations is anti woman, porn driven, white knighting, etc....

 

[TexanStar]

but suggesting a man be a bit wary about inserting himself in certain situations is anti woman, porn driven, white knighting, etc....

err....

admittedly i did it as a white knighting tactic to gain girls' favor

the respect i have for women they don't have for themselves.

more often than not she was attracted to his abusive traits and is likely to go right back to him, if not chastising you for daring to interfere.

Anyways. You're clearly not equipped to bring a useful resolution to such situations so it probably is for the best that you're staying out of them.

 

[Sagittarius84]

err....







Anyways. You're clearly not equipped to bring a useful resolution to such situations so it probably is for the best that you're staying out of them.

There was a time i was younger and more naive when i wouldn't hesitate to speak up on woman's behalf..being as i wasn't exactly physically imposing that did little but get me laughed at. Later on, self admittedly i did it as a white knighting tactic to gain girls' favor..now honestly I'm a bit jaded...
Reading comprehension is critical. I was referring to a series of past ill informed behaviors. I'm 33 now...im sorry I had the nerve to be a skinny horny teenager and thought being a white knight then would improve my chances with women.
Look im just trying to keep it real with men that may not have a tactical or physical advantage in such situations, as admirable as it may be, those who stick out their necks for others tend to get decapitated and no good deed goes unpunished.
So read the situation, call out and even unite against the abusive. But with domestic situations, unless you know for a fact you have the strength or firepower to impact it..just call the authorities

 

[TexanStar]

There was a time i was younger and more naive when i wouldn't hesitate to speak up on woman's behalf..being as i wasn't exactly physically imposing that did little but get me laughed at. Later on, self admittedly i did it as a white knighting tactic to gain girls' favor..now honestly I'm a bit jaded...
Reading comprehension is critical. I was referring to a series of past ill informed behaviors. I'm 33 now...im sorry I had the nerve to be a skinny horny teenager and thought being a white knight then would improve my chances with women.
Look im just trying to keep it real with men that may not have a tactical or physical advantage in such situations, as admirable as it may be, those who stick out their necks for others tend to get decapitated and no good deed goes unpunished.
So read the situation, call out and even unite against the abusive. But with domestic situations, unless you know for a fact you have the strength or firepower to impact it..just call the authorities

I did read it all.

I pulled out the segments which were relevant to the characterizations people made (for which you were expressing confusion about where the opinions were coming from).

I already mentioned before you arrived in this thread that these situations can be dangerous and that although intervening can be noble, it's best for everyone's safety to not escalate the situation. I didn't go off on a weird tangent about women wanting to stay in abusive relationships in order to make that point though :/

 

[LaFemme]

Good thing there’s a woman to step in, then. If you need a job done, ask a woman.

Geez, saying ‘that’s not cool’ to a mate when he’s negging some woman in a bar is a whole lot different than stepping in between a man punching his girlfriend. This thread is about the first instance. But hey, if you’re not man enough to call out your buddies on respect for women, you’re not man enough for me.

In the case of domestic violence, by all means call the authorities. It might take anywhere from 3-15 minutes for the cops to get there. If the woman’s life is in danger, I might not worry about my life. I haven’t before. I’ve taken a punch. But I don’t care. Not on my watch. I don’t care if she goes back to him. For a few minutes she has allies. Maybe it’s just me and my girlfriend.

Last year, my girlfriend and I intervened in a beating happening in the hotel room next door to ours. My friend was kicking and pounding on the door. I called security. Then she got in and de-escalated the guy while I held the door open and calmed the girl. We then left it to security when they got there 10 minutes later.

Not on my watch.

 

[MickeyLee]

I'll go out doing what's right before I sit around while someone gets abused. I'm not made of glass, a punch isn't going to put me on my ass. I do promise that when the cops arrive they can peel me off some random asshole's back.

I was a Riot Grrl while still rocking OshKoshBGosh. Nothing about me has changed.

 

[LaFemme]

I'll go out doing what's right before I sit around while someone gets abused. I'm not made of glass, a punch isn't going to put me on my ass. I do promise that when the cops arrive they can peel me off some random asshole's back.

I was a Riot Grrl while still rocking OshKoshBGosh. Nothing about me has changed.

I get. I get it’s dangerous. But you nailed it when you said “I’ll go out doing what’s right before I sit on my ass while someone gets abused.” Me, too. Probably why I’m in the career I’m in. I intervened in more domestics than I can count. The cops would just shake their heads. But that was the job. Walk in. Protect. De-escalate. Protect. Walk out with solutions.

I’d rather someone said at my funeral, she took a bullet trying to protect someone than let someone suffer while I stand by. Fuck that shit.

 

[MickeyLee]

Ms. Femme's last two posts, heck all her posts, in this thread are solid fripping gold. *whistle and boot stomps*

 

[Penis Aficionado]

Twice in my life I've lost friendships with women because I intervened -- well, physically threatened -- their abusers. So I won't just dismiss what Sagittarius said.

(And no, in neither case were the women dependent on their abusers, other than emotionally. If they'd been financially dependent I wouldn't have done what I did, at least not without making sure they had alternate resources first).

I maybe could have handled it better, I don't know. I'm conflict-averse until the moment when I'm not, and then I just basically say, I think you're garbage, I challenge you to fight me.

I'd probably do the same thing again though. I didn't do it to win anyone's favor. It was more a matter of general principle -- just making it clear that I saw the abusers' behavior and I regarded it as unacceptable.

I don't agree with Sagittarius' conclusion that you shouldn't stick your neck out. You should do what's right, even if no one thanks you for it. Even if you get punished for it.

And I would not call the "authorities" in a domestic violence situation unless I thought it were a matter of life or death. When authorities get involved things can go sideways in a million different unexpected ways, and the people you're trying to help often get hurt the worst.

As for that ad -- the one in the bar -- it was great until it said, "Brought to you by the government." No matter how well conceived an ad or PSA is, the government advocating particular social behaviors is creepy and paternalistic, 100 percent of the time.

 

[AlteredEgo]

So I won't just dismiss what Sagittarius said.

It's off-topic, wildly so, which I wouldn't mind if it didn't serve to undermine the actual discussion.

There is a world of difference between what he was talking about, and just subtly addressing another man harassing or being inappropriate with a stranger.

 

[BetterFuture]

[I got "video unavailable" for the first one]
This reminded me of: Stetson Kennedy - Wikipedia and his "Frown Power" to fight bigotry. I like that premise because it's a gentler way of changing behavior... especially when the person with the offensive speech is a family member, friend of a friend, boss, coworker, etc. and not necessarily someone you can go off on. ... I hope that's not too off-topic.

 

[AlteredEgo]

[I got "video unavailable" for the first one]
This reminded me of: Stetson Kennedy - Wikipedia and his "Frown Power" to fight bigotry. I like that premise because it's a gentler way of changing behavior... especially when the person with the offensive speech is a family member, friend of a friend, boss, coworker, etc. and not necessarily someone you can go off on. ... I hope that's not too off-topic.

This is pretty much in line with the videos. I'd never heard about frown power before.

 

[Matt_x]

I have no tolerance for it, and this kind of reminds me of the show "What would you do?"

I have tons of stories but, my nature has always been to inject myself into the equation and make them feel stupid as fuck. I just can't turn a blind eye.

 

[185248]

Personally, I like people that stick up for other people in general. No matter if you have a dick or not. Black, white or in between. Geeze. Respect for humans in general, no boundaries....

Anyway....off topic....ok, will go and find another corner to sit in

 

[TexanStar]

I have no tolerance for it, and this kind of reminds me of the show "What would you do?"

lol, that show has a good premise but I swear every episode is like "A woman dressed like a nazi concentration camp officer pulls into a handicap parking spot and begins dangling a Hispanic immigrant out the car window over a plastic swimming pool full of piranha... what would you do?"

 

[185248]

If, just if, say, just say for one moment there was a god, goddess or a two headed bisexual tentacled beast...... Who created the Earth and all in it.

Do you think it would have survived this long without a sense of humour?